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So my 2110 project has slowly added up to an engine that needs a new case.

After purchasing the long block engine from a forum member (no longer), having it pressure tested with leak down (checked out), and spending on all the add-on goodies for install with labor, my mechanic discovered while removing the crank pulley to install the pulley tin, that the crank shaft is off center. The engine actually runs/sounds great, been tuned/jetted correctly, new A-1 exhaust installed by my shop, but my mechanic suggests that with the crank shaft off center and now a #3 cylinder leak, that it should not used. A new case is warranted to make this a correctly running engine. This is after spending $4,000 (not including the engine/carb purchase) to get it to this point, and nothing to show for it. The 1600 (original) will be going back in the car.

 

Feeling very stupid and angry with myself on how I've approached this, along with all the money I've spent for simply wanting a fast engine. Getting a bit sour on my speedster now.

1957 CMC Speedster Wide body.

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You'll find that most cases are not bored "exactly true" but are off a little bit from side to side, and sometimes not even parallel to the case split. A good machinist can quite often make up for this when boring the case for bigger cylinder spigots (instead of refrencing off the case half you go off the main bearing bore), and is part of the "blueprinting" process. How bad is it?

Any crank misalignment should have been corrected by decking the block to account for the crankshaft offset or tilt so each deck is the same distance from and parallel to the actual crank centerline. There is no need for the crankshaft to be aligned with the case split and it's unlikely it would be. So how did your mechanic determine the crank and decks are out of alignment without completely disassembling the engine?

 

Now if the case wasn't machined correctly to begin with and the crankshaft was tilted vs the deck then there could be issues with oval cylinder wear. But about the only other thing with the case itself I can think of that would cause a cylinder leak that wasn't there previously would be the head studs pulling out. And that can be fixed with thread inserts. Otherwise it's cracks or issues with the bearing saddles/thrust surfaces that usually send a case to the junkyard.

Last edited by justinh
Originally Posted by justinh:
 
This was a used engine my shop is installing, so I can't speak for the decking or blocking. Once the crank pulley was removed (to install the pulley tin) my mechanic pointed out that the crankshaft looks to be off-center (up and to the left). Enough for his concern not knowing who built the engine. Seems since the engine has been in and running for timing and tuning that the # 3 cylinder was leaking. Head studs checked to spec. Was told without pulling the head, couldn't say the cause. 
 
Are you saying the engine is fine in its current state and to investigate what's going on to the #3 cyl?
 
My shop has advised me the crank shaft is enough off center to worry that something isn't correct inside.
 

Any crank misalignment should have been corrected by decking the block to account for the crankshaft offset or tilt so each deck is the same distance from and parallel to the actual crank centerline. There is no need for the crankshaft to be aligned with the case split and it's unlikely it would be. So how did your mechanic determine the crank and decks are out of alignment without completely disassembling the engine?

 

Now if the case wasn't machined correctly to begin with and the crankshaft was tilted vs the deck then there could be issues with oval cylinder wear. But about the only other thing with the case itself I can think of that would cause a cylinder leak that wasn't there previously would be the head studs pulling out. And that can be fixed with thread inserts. Otherwise it's cracks or issues with the bearing saddles/thrust surfaces that usually send a case to the junkyard.

 

So it is just the sand seal area that's problematic? Your case does not look like it has been machined for a machine-in sand seal. Which means that part could be fixed without needing a new case. The engine could be disassembled and sent to a machine shop to have it done, or you can rent a sand seal cutter that can be used with the engine assembled http://vwparts.aircooled.net/G...se-cutter-rental.htm It centers itself on the crank so it ensures the seal bore is concentric with the crank. (I'd be nervous about metal shavings if you wasn't planning on disassembling the case afterwards to clean it though.)

 

You wouldn't know if something was wrong with the crank vs deck without disassembling the engine to measure it. Again, it's normal for the crank not to align with the case split as long as everything was machined relative to where the crank centerline actually is. And since you say the engine runs fine, things can't be off 3-5mm internally, it would seize up if it were. I suppose there could be tooth engagment issues with the cam gear if the crank and cam were out of line 3-5mm, but again, it would take a disassembly to even check.

 

I don't want to say that you don't need a new case, but you haven't shown enough evidence yet to say that you definitely do.

Last edited by justinh

It doesn't need a sand seal and doesn't have one currently. The crank pulley threads also looked a bit worn, and was told there is some small rubbing on the pulley form the offset of the crank shaft. It was stressed that the crank shaft is off-center enough that—for reference, a sand seal wouldn't fit correctly because of the current offset. It was explained as a red-flag that the crank shaft should not be this far off from center, that it could be harming internals, and with an unknown used engine, advised to get a new case and transfer everything (internals) correctly. I was told when buying the engine from a forum member (no longer) that engine had been built but a professional mech, has 4,000 mile on it and properly broken in. 

I bought a brand new case that had been machined incorrectly. I returned it for another. Stuff happens. I believe messing around with your existing case that is so far out of true will really cost you some money and aggravation. Time to cut your losses, bite the bullet and buy a new case. I'd also get rid of those spring loaded push rod tubes. But what do I know. Good Luck, Have Fun.

Originally Posted by jschlotz:

I bought a brand new case that had been machined incorrectly. I returned it for another. Stuff happens. I believe messing around with your existing case that is so far out of true will really cost you some money and aggravation. Time to cut your losses, bite the bullet and buy a new case. I'd also get rid of those spring loaded push rod tubes. But what do I know. Good Luck, Have Fun.

Yeah. Tough love from uncle Joel. Joel's almost always right, even when I don't want him to be.

 

My first tendency is always to think about the 50 ways I might fix something like this without just replacing the big part first. Joel thinks it through, lines up what he really wants, and then squeezes the trigger. It's a bulls-eye 95% of the time.

 

I, on the other hand, flop and twitch my way into stuff that I think is really, really cool- but only after I amass a great big pile of "didn't work". I've got a heap o' "didn't work".

 

I wish you well, Scott. I had hoped this would go better.

Last edited by Stan Galat
I still say that if the #3 cylinder oil leak is not a fountain, drive it until it blows.  He said it runs and sounds great so the worse that could happen is he will need a tow home and that is why we have AAA.  I don't know how serious the problem really is and what the odds are of it blowing, but there is a chance that it will never blow.
Options are:
Take it out and trash it...total loss right now.
Drive it and it blows...total loss when it blows and he is also out a tow.
Drive it and it never blows...he gets his moneys worth out of it.
I say put it on the road, take the chance and enjoy it while you can if the oil leak can be managed.
 
 
Originally Posted by Ron O, 1984/2010 IM, B.C. Canada:
Originally Posted by Troy Sloan:
You said that the engine runs and sounds great, so why not just run it until it can't run and then replace it.

Troy, I don't think he wants the engine to go 'boom'  while he's driving it around.

 

I wanted too, but already made the decision to pout the original one back in for now.
I still say that if the #3 cylinder oil leak is not a fountain, drive it until it blows.  He said it runs and sounds great so the worse that could happen is he will need a tow home and that is why we have AAA.  I don't know how serious the problem really is and what the odds are of it blowing, but there is a chance that it will never blow.
Options are:
Take it out and trash it...total loss right now.
Drive it and it blows...total loss when it blows and he is also out a tow.
Drive it and it never blows...he gets his moneys worth out of it.
I say put it on the road, take the chance and enjoy it while you can if the oil leak can be managed.
 
 
Originally Posted by Ron O, 1984/2010 IM, B.C. Canada:
Originally Posted by Troy Sloan:
You said that the engine runs and sounds great, so why not just run it until it can't run and then replace it.

Troy, I don't think he wants the engine to go 'boom'  while he's driving it around.

 

 

I agree Anthony except for the "suck it up part." I've made my mistake and paid a lot for it, but not flaming. Just keeping the forum involved with my progress, good or bad.
 
I now plan on shelving the 2110 for now and just drive and enjoy the 1600. I've converted it from a single to a dual, using the 44's and all the other goodies I bought for the 2110. Then down the road, get a new case and transfer all the internals having it done correctly. Need to budget for this again, so it will be some time before that happens.
 
Originally Posted by Anthony:

Scott, 

i would suck it up and tear the motor down. Few more dollars now is a lot less than starting from scratch.  

 

Yep. Plan on shelving the 2110 until I get the funds for a new case and start over. I'll upgrade my 1600 with parts already using, and enjoy until then.
 
Originally Posted by Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Tremont, IL:

Troy-

 

If he tears it down now, it's a new case. If he waits for it to blow, it's a new longblock. The difference in price is significant.

 

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