Ext Oil cooler

The oil lines should be -8 or larger. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-15800/overview/

But a 1600 shouldn't need an external cooler. Question is why your oil is overheating in the first place? Using a "power" pulley, missing engine tins/lower engine bay not sealed, oversized oil pump, heavy weight oil, bypass plunger stuck open, bad bypass spring, driving the car below optimum rpm, poor tune causing excessive running temps, etc?

The PO placed the external cooler behind the shroud. I have not run the car yet--sitting since 08 tells me to clean tank-cards-new rubber lines everywhere-brakes etc. Since 95% of owners suggest a cooler because of trapped heat in bay I'd thought I'd follow suit. When I pulled doghouse there is no cooler. Looking for suggestions for type, size, manufacturer etc so when I put it on road next month I can eliminated issues. 

Does the shroud have the "doghouse" on the backside, or is the cooler in the shroud itself?

With your 'near stock' engine I'd go with a stock doghouse oil cooler.  The previous owner should not have replaced the stock cooler with a cooler mounted over the shroud intake hole.

That's a real no-no.

Perhaps not required for extra cooling - it adds 1 quart or so of oil (and OEM 2.5 is not much) but more importantly it allows you to now run a proper oil filter.

No stock oil cooler and a remote cooler mounted in the wrong place does change the situation a bit.

Personally, I'd try to refit a stock cooler and eliminate the remote cooler. Keep the remote filter if it has one. The stock unit has adequate cooling for your size engine and it will simplify the system.

If that's not possible, and the existing remote oil cooler + electric fan is working fine to control the oil temps currently, I would just move it to the left rear fender well. That's where a lot of people put it. If it's working fine, there's no need to spend the money replacing it. But moving it will improve the cooling situation for the engine.

My current 8 line cooler does not have a fan--use or replace? I do plan on moving into fender well and leave the shroud opening--open

A picture will help here.

You said "When I pulled the doghouse... no cooler".  Is this really a doghouse style shroud? Or are you using the term 'doghouse' as a generic reference to the shroud?

A doghouse shroud has a bumpout in the back of the shroud. That 'doghouse' is used to  house a cooler that does not disrupt the flow to the number 3 cyl.

(sorry about the rather obnoxious image title, it's the best I could find)

Regardless, there is no reason to remove the standard cooler. Even if you're going to run an external cooler. An external cooler with a fan will work more efficiently than one without.

Ted

*edit*

I looked at your profile. You have some VW experience. Most likely you're familiar with a doghouse vs non doghouse shroud. 

Informative post Ted, thanks.

How is the external oil filter plumbed into the system? Is it being fed off of the oil pump with a return back into the case? or did the PO rig up the external cooler and filter off of the adapter plate from the stock oil filter fittings?

Heritage - anyway you could snap some photos of your set up?

Ted

So people know- The scenario Ted describes above-

"or did the PO rig up the external cooler and filter off of the adapter plate from the stock oil filter fittings" 

is not a full flow filter, as the cooler and filter (and anything else in the loop) do not receive oil flow 100% of the time. The engine is designed to only send oil to the cooler when the pressure drops (and the oil gets hot) and running the filter in this circuit will allow any dirt/contaminants to go through the bearings and everywhere else continually, as there will always be crap in the oil.

To filter oil 100% of the time it has to be fed directly from the pump and returned either back through the pump cover or to the case, as Ted stated above. 

Good post, Ted.

I'm not sure what's been done with Heritage's car. I'm just trying to figure out why there wouldn't be a cooler in the shroud. Covering all the angles.

Ted

An old school thought is to put an external oil cooler in front of the cooling fan. Yes it does allow air to pass through the cooler but it also blows this pre heated air over the engine, not good.The cleanest and best thing to do in your situation is to remove the fan shroud, install a dog house cooler and replace the shroud using a dog house model. A 1600cc engine does not produce enough power to create the amount of heat that would justify an external cooler.

I know you know that. I was pointing it out for other people's benefit.

Guys--I'll try to get some pics up today to help get this sorted out. Since I've been out of VW terminology for years I could have some stuff mixed up.

When I pulled the shroud there was no OEM cooler. There is a plate that leads lines off the top of the block.

Shop hasn't called me about piston size, stroke, heads yet. They told me they HAD to know this data to properly set up the 40's.

Here are some pics--guess I'll have to create a file soon.

Ahhh, okay that explains a lot.

That is a standard shroud (Non doghouse). The previous owner tried to do the full flow and using the standard oil cooler ports off the case. As ALB said, not the right way to do this. Your best bet is to upgrade to a true dog hose shroud and cooler. Get those rotors turned and get out and have some fun!

ted

Pulling from the top of the engine case for your oil cooler works fine. Yes, it does not filter the oil before it enters the engine but it does still incorporate the pressure relief system of the engine. This will help from excessive oil pressure during cold start. Full flow oiling systems bypass the pressure relief in the case and have a tendency to blow filters in cold climates. I have seen over 150 psi in some situations.

   You have two options, install a doghouse shroud and oil cooler or buy a very good external oil cooler with a cooling fan. I like the one we have at CB, part #1689. This cooler is very efficient and has a fan mounted on it. A good place to mount the cooler is right behind the torsion housing. I drill into the torsion housing and install 1/4 x 20 nut inserts and then one more nut insert off the side of the frame horn. This gives you 3 securing points and the cooler is tucked up very nicely, you don't see it at all. Install a thermostatic switch in line to the cooler to turn on the fan, we sell these at CB also. The switch will turn on the oil cooler fan at 180 degrees oil temp. While your at it, I would install a remote oil filer, the mounts are very inexpensive

Just found out the engine is at least an 1835. Not sure of the stroke. Case was line bored and lightened flywheel added. Going with an external cooler with fan--Great help from Alan in PA--straight up guy! Also having valve covers vented.

The shop found over sized washers placed under rockers--tell me they have never seen those--Any Ideas why they are there. The washers are more of a spacer---probably 1/16"

They are called rocker shims, and are there to ensure the correct geometry of your valve train. Pushrod length is dependent on the rocker shaft height, so don't remove them.

If/when you install the cooler and fan, I recommend installing the fan switch on the OUT side of the cooler, that lets the oil get hotter than if the switch is on the IN side. The fan switches are almost always 180 degrees, but IMHO should be 190, to let the oil get hot enough.

Perhaps you should find a new shop.

I agree with Stan - find a better shop.

Those spacers are pretty common, especially with pushrod engines like ours.

But then, our engine design is ancient by today's standards so maybe your guy is under 50 years old??  

Like Danny P said, rocker shims are needed to get proper geometry. Your rockers probably have some sort of aftermarket adjusting screw like a swivel foot or elephant foot type. These require spacing the rocker assembly up to get proper geometry. Sounds like someone did not want to use the proper type of shim and installed washers. Not such a good decision.

They do look like shims instead of washers--you guys are great with the depth of your knowledge.

You wouldn't believe how much stuff some of us have screwed up (and money spent along the way) to GET that knowledge!

Okay - how do you know when you have achieved proper geometry?

...besides the obvious exhaust valve not hitting the top of the piston.

I prefer the half-lift method. That is, a line drawn through the rocker's center pivot and the rocker tip's pivot point should be at 90 degrees to the valve stem at half lift. This provides maximum vertical lift at the valve and minimizes the scuffing width across the valve tip (keeps valve side loading low). This also keeps the valve motion closest to the actual cam profile. Good description here: http://www.engineprofessional..../EP04-2010_20-30.pdf

The easiest mistake to make when figuring this out is to use the wrong pivot point for the rocker tip. On a roller tip rocker, the pivot point is the center of the roller. On a wiper tip rocker, the pivot point is the top of the valve stem. On a swivel tip adjuster, the pivot point is the center point of the ball socket.

There are other ways too. With high spring pressures you might want that set closer to full lift to minimize side loading at max lift/pressure. You might set it closer to no lift to gain a bit of valve lift early on, bumping the effective duration (personally I'd leave that up to the cam profile instead). These changes will have compromises in the other aspects (max lift, scuff distance, etc) too of course. Don't forget you can also set the rocker-to-pushrod geometry for similar effects.

And you guys thought these engines just fell together from random parts and ran first shot, didn'cha?

Crap I have a Masters in Technology but now I feel like I need a PhD in Engineering to keep up with you guys -

I'm glad Pat Downs only works 45 miles from my house.

Try common sense, Amigo...it works wonders...:-)  I have neither of your qualifications and I do ok..