External oil cooler

Used same kit.

Joel- You shouldn't really need the extra cooler with an engine that size and in that state of tune. Have you been having overheating issues during the summer? Is there a hole in the firewall for adequate air intake into the engine compartment? Is the engine tuned and carburetors jetted properly? Are all the engine sheetmetal pieces (Hoover bit on the doghouse cooler, sleds and industrial tins if no heaterboxes, rear tin over the exhaust with no extra holes if there's no fresh air tubes) installed and the rear of the engine properly sealed off from exhaust heat? My apologies for all the questions, but any of these details, if not tended to can be the reason an engine is running too hot, and an extra cooler is only a band-aid; it's addressing the symptom and not the cause. While a  cooler may bring oil temps in down to somewhere reasonable, by not addressing the problem, the heads (source of the heat) could be happily cooking themselves into oblivion, stranding you down the road at the most inopportune time! You wouldn't add a cooler to your daily driver water-pumper if it started running warm...

 

You can add a cooler using the outlet in the pump cover and returning it to the case via the fitting as MikelB did. I take it the engine doesn't have a full flow filter, so you could add it to the system; the oil line will come from the pump cover to the filter (and mount), go from there to the cooler and then back to the engine. Look at MikelB's 5th pic; at the top, to the left of the filter is a thermostat. This only allows oil to the cooler after it gets hot and so provides faster warm-ups, and should be included in any extra cooler installation.

 

The pump cover should be a straight trade, but there is one caveat; the exit (left side) of the pump body needs to be plugged to force the oil out the cover, and it would be a good idea to do the case passage-way too. This is to ensure there is no leakage around the pump and the engine losing oil pressure as the engine reaches operating temperature. Mind you, if you use the same pump and there's good pressure from cold to hot, it may not be an issue. The gears you're talking about are the crank-cam gears; they are further in the engine and they'll have no bearing on what you're doing here, so nothing to worry about. Oil pumps all use straight gears, and the only difference is their length. There are insulated hose covers available if it's a concern; just don't let any oil hoses touch the exhaust. In the rear fenderwell, above the transaxle (spaced out from the mounting surface for airflow) and even attached to the rear torsion bar tube are all places the cooler can be mounted.

 

Hope this helps. Al 

 

 

I agree with Al-I'm surprised that a mild 1914 would need an external cooler. 

I originally had an oil cooler like yours mounted above my tranny.  I used rubber lines and was always worried that while driving a line would get too close the the header and melt.  It bugged me enough that I ended up replacing the rubber lines with SS lines.  SS lines aren't cheap but to me it was well worth the piece of mind.

Ron / Al,

Your replies beg the question, what would you consider a 'hot' tune for a 1915?

Ted

40x35 heads with enough intake port volume to support 7,000rpm, Engle W125 (or W130) cam with 1.25 rockers, 1 5/8" exhaust, 40 (with the W125) or 44 IDF's with 34mm venturis (36mm in the 44's if you're really looking for the "big number") and 9 1/2:1 (or even 10:1 with the W130) compression. 155? 160? 165? hp, a little soft down low, but at 3500 it would take off and it be a rocket! 

 

Because of the powerband starting at somewhere above 3,000 rpm (and closer to 4,000 with the W130), close ratio 3rd and 4th gears (and a 5th for the highway, otherwise you're stuck at 50 or 55mph) would be needed to really get the most out of it. And any time an engine spends a lot of time above 6,000rpm, springs (even duals, and that's what's needed here) don't last long; you could be replacing them in as little as 10-15,000 miles. The valve guides (depending on how much of the bosses were left in to support them) could be done as well, even if the geometry is spot on. Spark plugs 1 step colder than for a regular aircooled engine will be required, and I always found (with points) they didn't last as long as you'd think they should, so you're replacing plugs more often than normal. I also found points would pit more often, sometimes in as little as 2500 or 3,000 miles, so they were a pia as well.

 

The W125 (301' adv. duration, 262' @ 0.050") will rev to 6500rpm with 1.1 rockers, and with ported 35x32 heads have almost enough lift (about .460") to get the most out of the port work, but with bigger (40x35) valves and the extra porting there needs to be more lift. 1.25's are the ticket here, but as well as lifting the valve higher (.522" or therabouts minus running clearance and depending on geometry), they also lengthen the dur. @ 0.050" figure by 4 or 5 degrees (the adv. dur. doesn't change, as these are the start and stop points for lift and are not affected by rocker ratio), and this extends the top end 300rpm (or so, depending on the port work, venturi and exhaust tube size).

 

The W130 revs a little higher (400? 500?rpm) and also starts a little later, so in a street car I would really consider this cam a better candidate for a stroker engine, where the torque from more displacement (and lower rod ratio) will smooth the transition to the powerband somewhat. 

 

Both these camshafts (and anything with similar dur. @ .050" figures) produce somewhat peaky, "high strung" (especially with only stock stroke) engines and not the jump into any time and drive for a weekend or across the country powerplants that most of us (I think) are looking for. Any cam/rocker combo that revs much above 6,000rpm is not in it's most efficient phase at the rpm's (3,000-3500) we tend to sit at on the highway (it may even get what seems like decent mileage bit it won't be optimum). Along with the higher maintenance of a higher revver, this is why I (and others) are continually suggesting building over 2 liter engines; properly done, the same heads, carbs and exhaust (with a milder cam) will make the same top hp figure but with much more power "under the curve" or throughout the rpm range.

 

I've posted this before, but it shows the difference in an engine's cylinder filling capabilities (and therefore the power it makes) when using 1.1 vs 1.25 rockers, and it's with a W125 cam. The differences with any cam and the 2 rocker combos will be similar-

 

Whoa! Ninja edit.  (You edited while I was replying...)

 

So, let's say 40x35.5 heads, Counter weighted crank, Engle120 cam, double valve springs, chromoly pushrods, 1.5" A1 sidewinder, lightened flywheel (8 dowel), Dual Kads, and a SVDA distributor, 8.5:1 compression -- etc.

 

Would that be a 'hot' 1915? Will I need an external cooler? Oh, Type 4 oil cooler in a type 1 (with appropriately modified tins) - good choice or bad choice?

 

You rule!,

Ted

Great info, Al! 

Ted- I'd call that "healthy". Good combo; I'd change a couple things though. With Aircooled.net's aluminum pushrods (more $$$, I know), CB's lightweight lifters and maybe some titanium retainers (what can I say; I like spending your money! It's for a good cause, though), you'd get away with single hd springs. This would work well with 35x32 heads, but to get the most out of some properly ported 40x35 heads, you'll need 1.25 rockers, which is definitely dual spring territory. If you spring the extra for the lighter parts, you'll get away with a softer dual spring set, which will create less heat and be easier on all parts involved.

 

Now, here's where you're really going to hate me- If you're not buying an already assembled engine and you're looking at parts, consider buying a 74mm counterweighted crankshaft and some Porsche length rods. It will add 250cc's, with "A" (standard 69mm pin height) pistons it just be a little wider than a stock 1600 (so sheetmetal will still be easy to fit) and torque in the lower rpms' will be unreal, in comparison to the 1915. Build the rest of it the same- 40x35, W120, your 1 1/2" sidewinder (I think you already have that?), svda, closer to 9:1 and your kads. It's a bit of a 2 parter though; the kads will be a bit small, but they'll do until you can afford some 40mm Webers or Del's, and when you do the carbs, put 1.25's on it (if you haven't already). In it's final form it will produce 150 hp and be a dream to drive!

 

Now, about that pesky 4 speed....

Good info! The motor is already built with the 120 and the existing heads/rockers.  If this motor will run well, as is, I'll keep it that way for a bit. I'm going to ditch the type 4 dog house cooler and go with a standard type 1 cooler. It's running a clydes buggies sump and it's full flowed with a beefy oil pump. I feel like I can add a cooler if I need it. *Unless you say otherwise*.

 

The pesky 4 speed is due to come out once I get those 36mm nuts off the rear drums. It'll be heading off to Northern California for a complete rebuild. Anthony is going to make it a super beefy pro street trans with an attitude.

 

I'm going to build a bar to hold the rear drum stationary while I yank on that nut.

 

Thanks for the info!

Ted

Ted - An easy way to loosen TBN (The Big-assed Nut) is to lower the car onto the wheels if possible and use the weight, along with the e-brake, to hold it in place.  Having the wheel bolted to the drum also gives you more to grab hold of to pull the drum off.

Yeah, do what Lane says, and then put a 36mm socket on them with an 18"-24" bat handle on the socket and a 6 foot piece of steel pipe (black or galvanized) on the bat handle and then your weight on the end of the pipe.

 

If they don't come off with that, you'll have to blast....

Breaker bar like they say above is the simplest way to get that nut off.
But if that doesn't work I've used the "Axle Nut Remover Tool" with a 5 lb. sledge before.  $12.  Any of the bug stores will have one but here's a link.

http://www.bughaus.com/axle_nut_remover_-_7023.htm

I'm getting older so I use an impact gun now. 

Awww, too bad. Is this the 1915 you were looking at before, then? It will be a fun engine! I wouldn't automatically add an extra cooler; work through getting the engine (and cooling) up to it's potential first. I would put a good cylinder head temp gauge in though; oil temps can be perfectly reasonable yet head temps are crazy, and without a gauge the only time you'll realize something is wrong is when the the thing dies, probably somewhere out in the middle of nowhere.

 

If I know I'm pulling the rear drums (whether I'm doing brakes or working on the trans) I'll leave it on the ground (wheels and tires still on), in 1st gear and with the emergency brakes on (maybe even a block behind the tire), pull the cotter pins, loosen the axle nuts (not take off; just loosen) with the 36mm socket and breaker bar and then put the car on jack stands.

 

 

 

 

 

I also leave mine on the ground with the emergency brake on , but recently tried using a floor jack to "lift" the breaker bar. It beats jumping on it like I have done in the past.

Just get a 4 ft. long piece of pipe that fits over the breaker bar.

A Torquemeister is a torque multiplier and a great way to both get the nut off and insure it's at the proper torque when you have to put it back on.  You'll still need a torque wrench but you can use the one you have for the lug bolts/nuts, pulley nut, etc.  The downside with the Torquemeister is that you can overtorque the 36mm nut pretty easily.

Al,

Thanks for the expert advice as usual. I've had this 1914 engine upgrade for 2 years and about  5000 miles and it always ran under 200 degrees F. until  the last two spirited drives. The last time it was approaching 240 F. and I was averaging 70mph(stock transmission). When I slowed down temp fell 15 degrees rapidly. I added the oil temp gauge and placed the pickup in the rear oil galley. Outside temp was 80F at that time. My CHT is inaccurate and I don't trust it. Will investigate that soon.

Because I built this engine with your guys advice I think I did everything right-all the tin, proper exhaust,proper timing,and the ventilation in the fire wall that Vintage provided. I am forever playing with the Weber IDF 40s. Usually the car doesn't smell rich but it did that day. I went 175 miles on eight gallons. Driving with the deck lid completely open  didn't lower temp.

After I read your post I checked the fan for blockage-it was clear. I have a mexicrate engine with doghouse oil cooler-about 10,000 miles total. Fan belt doesn't appear to be slipping. The engine used about one third qt of BradPenn 10W40 for 350 miles and  four passes down the drag strip.

Any advice?

 

Joel

Hi Doc----sorry to hear of the engine trouble you are having.  21.8 MPG says something is out of kilter--that;s for sure---and the rise in oil temps after behaving so well for a long time is cause for concern.  First, I'ddo a new topic so more folks will see it---I'm sure therecare guys on gere that will have some smart info for you---I regret I'm not one of them!

 

I'd locate a good air cooled engine guy in your area by asking around, googling, checking with parts suppliers klikwe C.B. Performance to see who they ship Air cooled VW parts to and so forth.  Even here in Dogpatch I have found a wonderful, smart, reasonable guy who owns a car repair shop and doesa lot of foreign cars.  He's done some smart troubleshooting for me

and lately straightened out my Dells.  He also repaied a stripped spark plug hole with a Time cert without having to drop the engine.  I'm certain therere places like  his one near you.

 

I hope you get that engine running like before!

Joel- Could it be you're getting more comfortable with the engine and have just started driving it harder? You did say "spirited" drives....

 

Seriously, for it to suddenly run hotter, something has to have changed. You mentioned the fan belt- is the tension within spec? If it's too loose (and not moving enough air) it could be your problem. Nothing blocking the firewall hole? I would guess the timing has changed, or a cylinder running hot because of a plugged jet, but start at the basics and eliminate things one by one.

 

I just had a thought (my wife would be proud!)- what's the engine seal like? Could preheated air from around the exhaust be finding it's way into the engine compartment? All the tin in place and doing it's job? That's weird that it used so much fuel and opening the lid didn't lower temps at all. Have you checked around the carbs and manifolds for intake leaks?

Al, Jack, and everyone else,

So far I found the brass seat frozen to the idle jet on #2 cylinder. I polished it with a rubber wheel on a dremel and refitted it- unfortunately press fit only. This explains why was running rich.

My wife and I did 80 miles in the tub this pm to see the changing leafs. The engine did not run hot-it was 58Degrees F. and I was running between 5 mph (traffic) and 75 mph. The only time my wife got pissed  at me was when I dragged a Ducati 1197 away from a light. She said what are you 18 years old? Guess who won! This from a woman who beat a Mustang GT out of a toll booth with her soccer mom Buick Roadmaster Estate wagon (it even had fake wood siding) back in the 90's. The Buick did come with a factory LT1 Corvette engine because they had already stopped making the nailhead V8.

Anyhow the tub ran pretty good and we had fun. I again recommend the heater mod-bipassing the crossmember-the top was down and it kept our feet warm.

Joel (more than 18).

 

 

Super report--congrats, Doc.

So is number two idle circuit now working? Because I remember that the #2 idle mixture screw had no effect at all.

 

 

Great to hear it Joel.

I may have discovered why my 1914cc sometimes ran hot . This morning I took off the fan belt and the inside was very shiny and beat up so I assume that it was slipping at highway speed-it had only 1/2 inch of play. I replaced this 10,000 mile belt with a NAPA XL 7350-it took all the shims to get the right play.  I  then went for a 70 mile ride. It was 38 degrees F.when I started out and 32 degrees when I returned. The oil temp  gauge read !80-190 at 60-70 mph. Yesterday I installed the CHT pickup under #3 spark plug and the gauge read 350-400 today. I don't know how accurate that is as it was not the easiest install. As per advice from Al and others I will hold off on installing an external oil cooler but will have to wait for warmer weather for results .

Thanks for your input.

Joel 

What brand of CHT gauge do you have installed in your dash....VDO?

Ron,

 

Yes the CHT gauge is a VDO. The black face matches the Spedo and Tach that came in my 2006 Vintage. I mounted it on the bottom of the dash to the left side of the steering wheel along with an oil temp gauge in a preformed black bezel. They `are lighted and are visible at night. I had to increase the inside diameter of  the pickup with a dremel in order to get it under the spark plug. I think its accurate.

 

Joel

Joel- The VDO CHT gauges are not "temperature compensated" (I'm not really sure what that means), so they are not accurate. Let's see if I get this right- when the ambient temp is above about 70'F. the gauge can read as much as much as 50' lower (than the actual head temp) in the 300-400' range, and when the ambient is less than 70'F., the gauge will read higher at operating temps. There are 2 CHT gauge/sender combos that I know of that are accurate, one of them being the Dakota Digital (sorry, I can't remember the other one at the moment; I've been at a neighbor's house partaking of my favorite stress reliever- dark rum).

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/...es.php?clickkey=3560

That's what I have.