Facet Fuel Pump

If you get a CB or Carter rotary fuel pump for carbs, it is self-regulated at 3 to 3.5 psi. So no regulator needed at all.

I've never been a fan of the Facet shake-rattle pumps.

But yes, no matter which electric pump you use, they like to push the fuel.

The manufacturers and just about everyone else recommend a pre-filter before the pump. I use an after pump filter as well, but that's optional.

I’ll try not to be redundant with Danny, here:

I've been reading the forum and trying to decipher the best place to install the facet fuel pump?

In my opinion, the best place to install a Facet fuel pump is in the trash bin.  They pump OK, but in pulses and they make one helluva lot of noise - clack, clack, clack…….

Should I install it after the filter and on that shelf below the fuel tank?

Yes - That’s a great spot, and after the fuel filter.  

Also, I've heard it can be quite loud and people mount it on rubber? Wondering what you may recommend for that?   See the trash bin comment, above.  You might have noticed that neither Danny nor I are Facet pump fanboys.  

Also, it seems to be like there is some debate as to it vs the CB rotary pump. So wondering if maybe I should install one of those instead...  

YES!   On the same shelf in front of the passenger footwell.  We believe that the CB pump is made/sold by Carter so you might find a Carter equivalent for a few less bucks or just order the CB pump and carry on.

I did buy the Malpassi filter king regulator due to a friend's recommendation as well, can I still install that in the engine compartment on the firewall?

Sure.  It would actually partially smooth out the pulses of the Facet pump but it will regulate the CB (or Carter equivalent) pump, too.

The fuel filter I used is a NAPA Gold 3031.  It is metal cased and mounted in-line between the gas tank and the pump, on the shelf immediately forward of the passenger foot well, and forward of the body bulkhead.  It is mounted with a large, neoprene-insulated electrical clamp to hold it down - The same type of clamp I used to secure the fuel pump.  There is no further fuel filtration except for fuel strainers at each carburetor’s inlet (inside of the Banjo fitting).

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/FIL3031

Just to be a contrarian, I installed a low-pressure (4-7psi) Edlebrock rotary fuel pump on the beam side of my Passenger footwell,* mostly ‘cause they look cool and they sell them at every corner auto parts store. Quieter than a Facet, but it does give off a reassuring hum when I turn the ignition on. Inaudible with the car running.

I mounted them on the little fuel pump isolators that John at Aircooled sells.

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/R...CH-9259-p/9259-7.htm

I also have a Filter King mounted to my torsion tube in back. With these.

IIRC the size for the torsion tube is 2.25”

*Keep in mind I have a Spyder so those locations may not work for you.

@DannyP -  I feel like I might have to get one of these CB rotary pumps. I've heard only good things. Part of me is curious as to how loud this facet actually is. haha.

Appreciate your replies and your knowledge. You've been really helpful with all of my questions!

@MarkusG Relative Facet noise

Did your parents, grandparents or their friends have a floor-standing Grandfather clock with a mechanical pendulum movement?  BIG Tick-Tock?  We had a big Grandfather clock in the living room and you could hear it all over the house.  It had a special lever to disengage the hourly striker when we went to bed (thank God!)

THAT is about how loud a Facet pump is - Any solenoid pump is like that, really.

Now, make that tick-tock 4 or 5 times per second and you’ve got the sound of a Facet. 🤮

@Gordon Nichols - Haha. trash bin comments noted. I do have that napa filter just below the tank, so thanks for linking that... that gives me some reassurance I've done a couple of things right.

For the placement of the rotary pump, how do you access that space easily? Changing the filter was a bit of a **** show as it was hard to get my hands in there. I'm wondering if there's a secret "insiders" trick here.

Thanks for taking the time to help!

@dlearl476 I'm not saying you're going to have problems, but 4-7psi is WAY too much pressure for Weber carb float valves to handle. I wouldn't recommend doing that(for everyone else!).

@MarkusG no problem at all, I enjoy helping others. I don't volunteer anywhere, so this is my way of giving back.

@DannyP posted:

@dlearl476 I'm not saying you're going to have problems, but 4-7psi is WAY too much pressure for Weber carb float valves to handle. I wouldn't recommend doing that(for everyone else!).

Hence the FilterKing. Oh, and Dellortos (which likewise like 3.5psi).

@MarkusG wrote: "For the placement of the rotary pump, how do you access that space easily? Changing the filter was a bit of a **** show as it was hard to get my hands in there. I'm wondering if there's a secret "insiders" trick here."

Take off the passenger side front wheel and you'll have full, easy access.  Here's what it looks like with the wheel off, looking at the central tunnel ahead of the foot bulkhead.  That big rod, top to bottom in the photo, is the passenger side tie rod.

Top to bottom shows the NAPA fuel filter with the fuel line from the tank coming in from above and left, then the CB Performance pump with inlet on the right and outlet to the hard line in the central tunnel on the left.  The CB pump is wrapped in a protective layer of inner tube and held in place by an insulated electrical clamp.

That third round gizmo at the bottom is the fuel pump for my gas heater.  That is a solenoid pump, but it makes far less noise than a Facet and it's mounted with a rubber-insulated electrical clamp.  When it's running it cannot be heard, even with the engine off.

This photo was taken as I was mocking up the placement of those three components and I've not yet installed a "T" in the fuel hose between the filter and the pumps to feed them both.  Sorry, but I don't have a photo of the completed installation, but the positions of the filter and pumps are the final version.  This shows everything that you'll be placing out there.

I am a big proponent of CB  parts and quality, however we did not have good luck with their fuel  pump (and we run pre pump filter and pre carb filter).  It may have been an isolated batch and may have been long since corrected but I wouldn't know because we stopped using them.  Anyway, what we experienced is that while the Carter (CB) pump would not fail, it would stop self regulating and started putting out 8-9 PSI, which would flood an engine it idle and stall.  Not sure of the validity and redundancy of running an external regulator with a carter, but we now run Redline pumps with external regulators.  Just my experience and 2c.

To answer your direct question, 2 filters are recommended.  Yes if you use the rattle pump mount it on rubber (any pump really it helps with noise and vibration).  Lots of generic rubber mounts available from VW specific suppliers and Amazon.  Under the tank near the front beam is a good location.

@MarkusG my two cents worth, or at least two pennies, me living in England and all that.

1. The sound of a Facet fuel pump.  BTW, it's not much quieter when it was previously installed in the car.

2. Location of rotary fuel pump, large Mahle pre-pump fuel filter (and added stop cock that allows me to replace filter without clamping hoses and dribbling fuel everywhere). This is for a right hand drive car, so the location would have to be reversed on yours. The location of the filter also helps when it comes time to replace it by simply removing the wheel nearest.

Don't do what I did and initially mount the fuel pump the wrong way round, so it was blowing air bubbles back into the fuel tank.. doh! Make sure you build in enough slack in the hose length so that you can prop the fuel tank up in order to look through the hole for future inspection of fuel pump or brake master cylinder without having to remove any hose connection.

3. I've also got a Malpassi fuel filter/pressure regulator in the engine bay (which you can just see at the tip of one of the pics on another post here), but that's because it was already there - I just replaced all the hoses but left the Malpassi in the same position.

Hope this helps.

[edit] oh, and if you're doing all this, don't forget to clean out your fuel tank before you stick a new filter and pump in. The small amount of extra time needed is far outweighed by the huge reduction in crud needing to be filtered out along the way to the carbs. Well worth the effort.

On my Spyder, I find it’s easier to just pull the tank to work on any of that stuff.
I drive the car till it’s low on fuel, pop a fuel line off a carb and let the pump empty the tank, then I pull the four bolts off the tank and remove it. When I installed the new fuel pump, I left a long enough service loop on the fuel line so I can pretty much lift it out of the way and remove the line without spilling any gas.

@dlearl476 posted:

... When I installed the new fuel pump, I left a long enough service loop on the fuel line so I can pretty much lift it out of the way and remove the line without spilling any gas.

kinda like Smokey Yunick, NASCAR owner, who instead of a half-inch fuel line, he created a two-inch fuel line that was 11 feet long, and held five gallons of gas. Rules only stated capacity of fuel tank, not fuel line.