FAT Performance 2180cc w/dual 44 Webers

Tell us more about it Chaz- cam? compression? heads?....DYNO NUMBERS????

So I bought the sandrail with the intentions of pulling the engine/trans and building a Spyder using the drivetrain.

Things have changed and I might be going a different route.

I bought the sand rail from a man in his 70's who had it built and spent well over 20K doing it all the right way.

so he rail was never even tagged/registered for any use and only test run that's it.

He paid over 8500. To have this engine built and FAT Peformance is literally walking distance from my house and I know how they build their engines.

All builds are Dyno tested and built very well as you might already know.

I called over At FAT to see if I could get info on the build but they are closed until after July 4th.

I can tell you that the man I bought it from was an honest man as am I.

and I can tell you what I do know.

The oil is clean and clear, the heads are stamped FAT VETTE and it is incredibly fast and purrs big time.

I pulled a valve cover and have a photo.

let me know what other questions I can answer.

 

It's up to you! 

I have a local customer that has interest in it as well so let me know soon!

I also have a transmission built by Wrightbox Ttransmission that was built for sand but can be geared for street.

its all powdercoated and like engine has pretty much no miles.

REDUCED!!!! I'm willing to let the engine go for $5000.

It would help to know a few things about the engine, such as the heads (valve sizes, intake port volume), camshaft and rockers, compression ratio, carbs and exhaust tubing size, redline? I know FAT Performance's rep, and yeah, "it's incredibly fast and purrs big time", but that doesn't tell us anything about whether the engine is suitable for someone's driving style.

 

And that's nice that the transaxle case pieces have been powdercoated (they do look good), but what's in it- gears, r&p, regular or superdiff, are 3rd and 4th welded, all the usual beefing techniques? I'm guessing that since it was built for a sand car, the gearing may be all wrong for a Speedster and will need to be redone with different r&p and maybe gears?

 

If all you're going to use this site for is to sell stuff (I just clicked on your name and looked at your posts, and you haven't contributed to any other threads than when you have stuff for sale) at least give some details of the crap you're trying to unload. It may be good stuff, but we'll never know, as you haven't given any of the info that matters...Al

The older man who purchased the FAT Performance 2180 from FAT passed away so I was not able to get the receipts and details from him (obviously).

Basically he had this rail built with the engine and trans and didn't take it out.

I myself dont know enough about high Performance engines so I'm not sure how it was built. I did see that heads on engine are stamped FAT.

I was told by his son that he paid a large amount of money for the engine at FAT and he did tell me that the trans has a super diff and welded 3-4th gears. The trans is a Pro Comp built by Wrightbox out of Riverside Ca.

if someone is serious about the engine then we could easily go down to FAT Performance and bring the engine with us, they may have possibly documented the build.

And as far as using this site only to sell my parts well I just happen to have some things that I thought others could use and there is a classified section so I post these things on it.

I'm willing to find out any information that I can on either engine or trans for any serious buyer.

Here is a picture of the head stamped FAT and a view with valve cover off if that helps any.

Carbs are Weber 44's

So why not just walk across the street to Fat and ask them about the build. You said they are closed till the fourth of JULY, it's now the 14th.

 

Details, details, details, sell High priced products...

What Bill said- go find out.

Alright ladies I will head over to FAT tomorrow morning and see what I can find out 😉

Just want to give Chaz some kudos for taking the questions without getting defensive. Lesser men have left the site when put under the spotlight 

What Chris J said X2.

 

Ladies? That's it! I'm quitting this forum...

Try to help a guy out and I get insulted.

Lol😆😂

Alright well I just returned from FAT Performance.
Showed them pictures of the engine and they clearly stated that they built it but don't keep record through serial number and that the customer must have brought in their own case to be built on this engine because it has a number and their new case builds do not.
He said the name on the side of heads below FAT is the person who Dynoed the engine.
Also showed him valve cover removed photo and he stated they were all FAT parts.

And also the stamp 46C is the combustion chamber compression.
I do know and maybe didn't state before that the engine runs on race fuel so it's a high compression engine.
He said that at FAT they don't do halfway jobs and when they do an engine it's the entire engine.
He also said this engine would cost $8900. Plus tax to buy without exhaust.
I hope this helps a little.
I think my price is fair and I wish that I had more information but I don't.

Someone can save 3K on a very reputable FAT Performance engine for their car.
$5000. Takes the engine and I won't remove from the rail until you hear it run and drive it.

You may want to consider marketing your engine/tranny to the buggy or sand crowd in SoCal.  All of the cars on this forum that I am aware of are street cars, using pump gas, not race gas.  Your engine could still be modified for street use with a tear down, but it seems to be set up for off road use.  Best of luck with your sale.

We use FAT for all our Type 4 engines. We order the EMORY Special

 

Always quality from Greg.

 

Seems like a good deal Charlie, hope it sells soon!

Very true that it will require heads to be pulled and bring compression down but that's an easy fix for someone who knows what to do.
I just thought if there was someone building a 550 and they wanted to save some money then this was a good opportunity.

Back up the truck a minute. It seems like a good deal, but...

 

A 2180 with 46cc combustion chambers is going to have somewhere around 10.5:1 (.060" deck) to just over 11:1 (.040" deck) compression, but we don't know for sure that it's even a 2180. To get the compression down to a reasonable level for something like a Speedster, it may need new heads (600? 800? $1,000?), as the ones on it are already seriously flycut and there's no way you're going to be able to rework the chambers enough to bring the compression even close to what's needed for a dependable, drive anywhere car. Sorry, but it's not an "easy fix for someone who kows what to do". There's also no solid info as to size, what cam is in it, or what the valve sizes are/level of porting. Is it a brand new case? Does it have a brand new piston/cylinder set, or are they used? Are the crank and rods all new or used? Is the exhaust useful to a street car guy? Can't see, from the pic that's been posted.

 

What we do know- it has 44IDF's, either 1.1:1 or 1.25 rockers,it's a running engine, and it's "incredibly fast, purrs big time, and has CRAZY power!" (according to Chaz). When looking at a used engine (and this is indeed used, since there's no documentation), what's valuable is what you can see, unless the seller will agree to a tear-down. And guys, I don't see $5,000 in the pics that have been posted.

 

For anyone here contemplating this purchase- you'd need to see it torn down to confirm size, condition, what's in it, and then remember that compression is going to have to be reduced probably a whole point (or more), which will cost money.

 

Sorry Chaz, I'm not trying to bust your balls, but I don't think you're going about this the right way, not knowing anything about this engine (or the transaxle), and you're working the wrong crowd. As Jim said, try the buggy/sand guys.

New exaust will be needed.

interested in the engine and trans

If someone is serious and interested in the engine call me 714-883-8653
Thank you everyone for your interest and comments on my post.

Engine and trans has been removed and is no longer for sale.

thank you for the information guys, ladies...��

Buying an engine without details would be like going into Walmart and grabbing the first bra you see and hoping it fits your needs.  I did a tear down on an engine built by an "expert" engine builder.  The problem found was six out of eight of the inner valve springs were broken, so the engine sounded like a soda can with rocks inside it.  Upon closer observation, the "expert" had too much cam lift, not any spring bind clearance and other serious mistakes.  I detuned the engine, replaced the cam with a known one as the camshaft in the engine had it's ID brand and cam part number grinded off. After putting the engine back together with known cam spec, slightly smaller valve sizes and plenty of clearance to prevent valve bind, the customer told me the engine now has more power than before it broke the springs.  I will not buy any engine from any "expert" without detailed numbers on what parts were used and their specs.  Just seems like common sense to know more about what you are spending your money on, but maybe, this is just old me, being picky ?  And, NOW, the customer knows exactly what is in the engine, every part, every size, every brand name.  I really enjoy reading the topics and discussions.

As I was the most vocal of the "we need more details" (and the intended target, I think, of the "ladies" comment) I have to agree with you, George. And the more we found out about this engine (high compression, built for sand so it's maybe cammed too much for the street for a lot of guys, "makes crazy power!", needs race gas) the more I could see this engine (and the transaxle, for that matter) wasn't a good fit for this crowd, and both would need extensive reworking for a street Speedster. I don't doubt Fat Perf. (a VW shop that has been around since almost the beginning, and definitely knows what they're doing, for those that don't know the name) built the thing, and that it's a kickass beast, but if you're going to flog an engine for good money (in spite of what the seller was saying, at 6 and then $5,000 he wasn't giving it away) you need to be able to document what's in it.

 

Guys-

Someone once told me that when looking at used stuff, base the price on what you can see, and without knowing what was inside, there wasn't 5 or $6,000 there. You need to be able to confirm the engine size (and condition), compression, what heads and cam, etc. To get the kind of money he was asking you have to be certain you're getting what he was telling everyone was in it, and he couldn't do that. 

Well had my engine gone through by Proformance.
Dave over there use to build engines for FAT Performance so it was as close as I could get without going to FAT.
Engine has very low use and has a SPG 82mm roller bearing crank welded.
42x375 heads, 44-IDF carbs,130 cam.
Dyno reads it's putting out 168-HP.
So in the end I'm glad it didn't sell

Glad you found out what was in it (a working roller crank is really neat!) and I hope you enjoy it. What was the compression set at originally and what did it get lowered to?

For some reason, every time I have used 44mm Webers , they never work out, never run right, are hard to tune. With big engines, I find the 48 IDF's work great and give no problems. Or, go with the little 40mm carbs and machine out the venture to 32mm or larger, add bigger gas and air and idle jets and that works better than most 44's. Just my experience with the 44's has been poor.

I also heard that these cranks would twist at high RPMs and that's probably why they had it welded so it can't twist.

evrythino in this engine was tight and in like new con diction as far as the inside goes.

compression was 10.1 and now it's I think 8.1 if I remember.

again engine was built by FAT performance and they wouldn't have put a crank in it that was going to fail.

Dave over at Proformance here in Orange,Ca. Builds great engines and he said everything looks good to go on this engine so I'm stoked.

Both engine builders have good reputations. I have bought special made type four parts from FAT in the past. Good people.

George, I am curious why you've had so much trouble with Weber 44 IDFs. I have them on a 2165cc type 1, and they are perfect. Runs like EFI after a couple minutes of warmup.

Danny, that's because you are the Weber Whisperer.

I cannot tell you why I have trouble with them. No problems using the 40 or 48IDF's. Some other shop owners express the same problems with 44's. Maybe, these are from EMPI and not Spain or Redline and poor quality in the machine work ?

Perhaps, but probably not.

 

FWIW, I've run every flavor of Dellortos from 40 to 48 tri-jet (no 36s). 40s are by FAR my favorite. 45s are "OK", the tri-jets left me kind've flat.

 

I'm using the 45s right now. They run like EFI, but I really do like the 40s better- they are just soooo sweet.