So, an alien spaceship from the planet Xenon lands on the lawn in this video, the space dudes get out, wander up and ask you to explain why the Earthlings in the funny hats are doing what they're doing.
I'll be damned if I could explain it in a way that would make any sense.
And oh, why are the 70-year-old unused tools spread out on the grass for inspection?
What do you Earthlings make tools for if not to use them?
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I love the 356 Registry for 2 reasons:
1. It's full of interesting information about Porsche 356 cars and owners, race cars, street cars and even outlaws.
2. It's full of crazy OCD comments about "correct" tools-the burnished red of the wood handled screwdriver that came with cars #306578 through #307552 July '56-August '58.
stuff like that...
I really dislike "judged" shows, simply because of stuff like that coupe video.
Kind of makes me think of this:
Sacto Mitch posted:
So, an alien spaceship from the planet Xenon lands on the lawn in this video, the space dudes get out, wander up and ask you to explain why the Earthlings in the funny hats are doing what they're doing.
I'll be damned if I could explain it in a way that would make any sense.
And oh, why are the 70-year-old unused tools spread out on the grass for inspection?
What do you Earthlings make tools for if not to use them?
But can they tell a Brazilian knockoff from a real Wide body Vintage Speedster?
A Speedster right off the production line wouldn't pass their inspection. They aren't judging these cars on authenticity or originality. They're judging them based off a modern day set of criteria that they came up with to determine how they think the car should look.
Off the production line Hans asks Schultz, "How do the door gaps look?" Schultz says from across the room, "They look good from here."
At the concourse Bob asks Tom, "How do these door gaps look?" Tom says, "They're off by 1/32' of an inch in the lower right corner." Bob exclaims, "Five point deduction for door gaps not being perfect!"
It was fun to walk around and look at all the cars you would only see in Social media or on you tube. A lot of driver quality and several cars at that top level. Makes you think of all the fun those poor folks are missing. Oh yah, I found out what a nut-picker is for ... to dislodge all those pebbles in your tire tread. Idk, Whose to say if I had the means that I wouldn’t have some early Carrera hanging over my pool table like a chandelier ...
No point deductions for the muzak? That's a crime.
One of the guys I know in New England used to have a Concours Bugatti ( 1930’s vintage) touring car that he “regularly” showed up and down the East coast, with no less than 2 weeks between shows so he had enough time to detail it between shows.
I can't even begin to understand OCDedness like that. For me, it’s build a car, then get in it and drive the damn thing as much as time and family permit. Sitting around cleaning it with a toothbrush and endless microfiber cloths in order to impress someone who has their own idea (not mine) of what a show car should look like is not my cuppa tea.
That 12 page check sheet just proves how anal the entire process is. Give me a nice selection of Ralph Lauren cars in a museum or lawn setting without those ridiculous “judges” any time.
Gordon, is a man after my own heart. Two shows that were judged, with my BMW vintage bikes that were the rarest and most originally detailed, did not win and instead, a BMW half breed coupe 3 wheeler, post war won best motorcycle! Then, an Indian with aftermarket leather cases and tassels, won best vintage bike. And, it wasn't close to all original. So, the show depends on the judges and their preferences. Not necessarily the vehicles.... I'd rather hang out at a cruise night or non judged show any day.
X 2 on what Jim just said. Real stuff / real people works for me. Shows don't amuse me one bit but please don't take that as a disparaging remark for people that enjoy them and the cars therein. Back in 2007 or so my Wife and I pulled into the Boot Hill Saloon in Daytona Beach which is primarily an old school Harley hangout with a reputation.
We arrived late afternoon on a Friday and parked the BSA B33 among about 15 older type Harleys. No other makes on the lot. Plenty of guys drifted around the bike. We were inside and had a couple of pints and then the 300 lb. bouncer approached us inside and asked if I was the one who owned the BSA. I said, yes...and he responded " cool bike, Man". We had one more and left. That's legit judgement for me in our situation and I'd sleep better at night having gone through that, than what those men with hats noted above decided on finally.
I tried to watch it all the way through.
I couldn't make it.
Seriously? Somebody thinks that's fun?
I've said this before but here it is again- cars are meant to be driven, and not just from the garage to the trailer, on to the show field, back on the trailer and into the garage. It seems just a little (ok, maybe very) sacrilegious when the emphasis ends up being how clean everything is, if it came from the factory that way , there are arguments about which licence plate hardware was used way back when (really, who gives a f&*#!)... I could go on, but you get the idea.
I really hope early pan based Intermeccanicas never become "collectable".
have a 69 BSA Thunderbolt & 74 Norton Commando,,guessing 90% original/stock, I dont do car shows and ride them on early Sunday mornings in the gold country foothills,,when I fill up I always have someone commenting on the bikes...the guys in their 20-30s havent ever seen one or know they existed..
License, registration , insurance card, owners manual, tools and spare tire please.
I'm afraid we overlook that many these cars are worth hundreds of thousands of dollars; not thirty thousand, like ours. The value of a through and accurate judging cannot be overestimated for those cars. A National first place is worth thousands of dollars in added value.
I do local shows. Motorcycle and car. Peoples choice awards are a complete waste of time and a slap in the face to an owner who has spent his time and money on a project worthy to proper judging. The local shows provide a trophy based on your entering. Last year I trophied in the top 20 imports. There were 17 entrants in that class. What B.S. I will continue to go and pay my $25 entrance fee because my friends are there and we all enjoy the time...but my plastic Porsche won't be judged. There will be other plastic cars; a Cobra Coupe, 1932 Ford Roadster and the like. They will be judged, as if they were REAL cars.
The viewing public doesn't know the difference between a REAL car and a replica. They have to be told. The shiny paint gets the prize. They over look the used, slightly beat up and very rare entry because they don't know any better.
Real judging has real value.
Nobody is disputing that a thing is only original once, or that originality has monetary and historical value.
However, if the purpose of competitive showing is to increase the value of an antique vehicle, we should not view the participants (entrants and judges) as enthusiasts, but rather as investors and appraisers. If this is the primary purpose of a car show, then the entire thing is pretty ostentatious (“behold the magnificence of my pile of money, and the man in the straw hat to tell me how big that pile is”).
I think where you may find some dispute is whether or not any of this “judging” makes owning a “100 point car” more fun. Displaying a mobile art installation and burnishing it to a high sheen so that others may pick it apart and assign it a value several times a year does not sound particularly enjoyable to me.
I’m the weird kid who would rather PLAY with his toys than wax them up and have somebody else tell me what they’re worth.
"I’m the weird kid who would rather PLAY with his toys than wax them up and have somebody else tell me what they’re worth."
That sounds a lot like Ralph Lauren and his cars. He does not necessarily "restore" them (and when he does he uses Paul Russell, exclusively) but when he does they tend to be "show queens" like his Bugatti Atlantic and while they can certainly be driven (he drove the Atlantic around the Pebble Beach rally course one year) they don't get out much.
Instead, be "rebuilds" them with his own ideas, always with stunning results and always with the intent that they be driven, somewhere, somehow, like in the Mille Miglia.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/c...c-2900-mille-miglia/
His car collection is stunning and he sometimes shows up at one of the shows in Boston if the car is up at Russell's shop. He had 16 of his cars on display at Boston's Museum of Fine Arts a few years back, but here's a good article on them:
https://www.vanityfair.com/sty...ge-slide-show-201101
"There will be other plastic cars; a Cobra Coupe, 1932 Ford Roadster and the like. They will be judged, as if they were REAL cars."
That has always annoyed me. You go to a car show and there are fibreglass bodied '32 Ford replicas there, or fibreglass Cobra replicas, with really nothing original to note, but then some jerk comments on how my car is a 'kit car'.
I have never understood that.
Stan Galat posted:I tried to watch it all the way through.
I couldn't make it.
Seriously? Somebody thinks that's fun?
Yeah, I only got about 2 minutes through the video, but I did attend that show and it was wonderful; 356 heaven. There were even some unrestored, fairly beat up cars, and this is weird, but I had to suppress an urge to touch and caress them.
Jim Gilbert - Madison, Mississippi posted:I'm afraid we overlook that many these cars are worth hundreds of thousands of dollars; not thirty thousand, like ours.
There was a four cam Carrera 356 coupe there. I actually got gushy inside.
Gee, I don’t know -
My Speedster’s ‘worth’ or ‘value’ or ‘originality’ (or lack thereof) aside, it’s a car that makes constantly makes people smile, inspires folks I drive by to give me an unsolicited ‘thumbs up’, or a friendly wave, or routinely shout “beautiful car!!!!” It’s a remarkable catalyst for positive, upbeat conversation and personal interaction - and all just as I’m casually tooling around town.
Take it to a local car show, and the dynamics I describe above are amplified even more!
These unscripted, unstructured positive interactions and dynamics - the ultimate “People’s Choice” awards - are an exceptionally rare commodity in today’s world, and in my book, what its ultimately all about!
"That's ok, and I don't think they intend any offense."
Unfortunately, some people do intend offence. 'Oh, that's just a kit car'...
I've never heard anyone use that term on a fibreglass hot rod or Cobra replica. But many just love dismissing our cars as less than what they are.
Cute story about the Ralph Lauren show in Boston:
They offered a limited-attendance night for a few local clubs and sponsors (my company was a partial sponsor) so I invited my son and his friend, Dan, both motorheads. Dan had some home logistics problems that night so he asked if it was OK to bring along his 3-year-old daughter, Lizzy, so I said, "Sure!" (she's a cutie, for sure).
So we get there and wander up to the gallery where the cars were displayed and, unlike the "normal" viewing sessions, this time they had doors and hoods and all sorts of things open so you could get a really good look into those beautiful cars. Heck, many of the undercarriages of those cars are far prettier than most anything we see today.
So Dan and Lizzy were wandering around, both having a wonderful time looking here and there at the cars while Dan is pointing out things for Lizzy to see and she is asking questions, mostly about the shinier things.
We caught up with them at (I believe) a Delahaye - one of those 1930's Touring cars with the sweeping fenders and Art Deco look from stem to stern and big, chromed exhaust pipes going to the rear under the running boards. Dan was looking into the Driver's cockpit and, while his gaze was elsewhere, Lizzy was leaning way down under the running board, trying to see just where all those shiny pipes went under the car. She was looking further and further and practically crawling under the car when one of the Docents comes over, carrying a very clean-looking, Ferarri-red mechanics creeper and asks Dan: "Would the Miss like to use one of these in her inspection? Mr. Lauren wishes his guests to be comfortable while viewing."
We all broke out in big smiles while Dan accepted the creeper and told Lizzy she could go under the car "just like at home". She thought that was sooooo cool.
Chris just saw them a few weeks back and Lizzy is an early teenager, now, and still remembers when they saw all the pretty cars in Boston.
Bob: IM S6 posted:"That's ok, and I don't think they intend any offense."
Unfortunately, some people do intend offence. 'Oh, that's just a kit car'...
I've never heard anyone use that term on a fibreglass hot rod or Cobra replica. But many just love dismissing our cars as less than what they are.
Ok, yeah, I can see how someone may like to dismiss someone else's property, passion, hobby, likes, lifestyle, or whatever. Maybe they feel better about themselves?
So, you and your choice of transportation are providing a small pleasure. And I am sure that I have been guilty of that type of petty, mean pleasure, so I will have to forgive others for doing so.
I’m really not begrudging these guys their fun.
Bob: IM S6 posted:"There will be other plastic cars; a Cobra Coupe, 1932 Ford Roadster and the like. They will be judged, as if they were REAL cars."
That has always annoyed me. You go to a car show and there are fibreglass bodied '32 Ford replicas there, or fibreglass Cobra replicas, with really nothing original to note, but then some jerk comments on how my car is a 'kit car'.
I have never understood that.
When I receive "kit car" comments, I just tell them what the "real McCoys" are fetching at auction, and explain I prefer the kit car because I can afford to drive it frequently. That and the fact that it handles better and is faster than a real 1957 356A Speedster.
Sacto Mitch posted:
To me, it’s as baffling as professional wrestling or yodeling.
I never really got into professional wrestling, but a college frat brother of mine was really into it. He was wrestling professionally at the time, and I got to meet Andre the Giant thanks to him. I'll never forget how small my hand felt when I shook Andre's hand. My hand fit inside his like 2 of my own fingers fit in my other hand. This was probably 1984 or 1985.
My friend ended up making a living as a professional wrestler. I saw him once on TV getting pile drived by Rowdie Roddy Piper, LOL!
Poor guy has deformed hands from his fingers being dislocated so many times. I'll be the first to chuckle when I come across pro wrestling on TV, but I'll also be the first to acknowledge the amount of effort (and choreography) that goes into that form of entertainment.
I think I’d need the straw hat dudes to breakdance or rap about door gaps or start tossing Krugerrands into the gallery to find mild amusement here.
“Fun?” I would contend no one— not entrant or judge or spectator— is having any fun whatsoever. “Fun” is a demolition derby, or LeMons beater racing, or a potato cannon. “Fun” lives in another time-zone. If a thing involves “judging”, you know all you need to about the “fun” quotient.
In the 2 minutes I watched the video before losing interest and waddling off, nobody seemed to be much interested in “fun”. Looking for correct and unused 60 Y/O tools is (apparently) serious business, and the fate of the free world must surely rest upon one’s ability to produce them for proper inspection.
Reading Mitch Toll’s thoughts on a daily basis is fun. Having your pride and joy picked apart by an anal retentive barbershop quartet wannabe? “Fun” is not the word that leaps to mind.
Ok guys! If it makes no difference then what's this conversation about? Fun, for big money guys, comes in forms that mere mortals cannot comprehend. I loved my Spyder for what it was. I didn't have $6 million for a REAL car, but if I did, then, I would have had one. Love my Speedster for the same reason. Still appreciate the REAL thing.
I'm getting pretty long in the tooth and have been involved with the old car hobby a very long time. The million dollar cars were cheap by today's standard. I've had REAL cars and I've had fake (ah, replica, ah, kit) cars. Most I ever paid for a REAL 356 was $3,000. Sure wish I had it now.
Let's not sound like them damn REAL Porsche owners I've heard tell about; looking down on our plastic cars. Don't look down and laugh on them that's got. Enough people wanted Speedsters to make it an icon. We wouldn't have our plastic cars if it were any different.
I really do believe in the trickle down theory.
I've always liked this quote:
Our cars are meant to be driven. Not polished.
Ferry Porsche
If dudes want to primp and polish that's fine, but it's not for me. I'd rather drive.
Stan Galat posted:Reading Mitch Toll’s thoughts on a daily basis is fun. Having your pride and joy picked apart by an anal retentive barbershop quartet wannabe? “Fun” is not the word that leaps to mind.
Hilarious way to sum it all up, and spot on to boot (and btw, that’s a polished, spit shined boot, with it’s original sole and heel, never scuffed or worn outside, in it’s original box!)
There's not a single one of us, if we had one of those $$$$$$ cars, who wouldn't polish, show and be very proud. Not one who would not want to be invited to Pebble Beach to show his car. Them big money guys got to be a bunch of SOB's
Jim,
You may not believe me, but I'm sure I wouldn't.
I've had rich acquaintances, and I can tell you this-- they aren't all the same. The ones who think their stuff needs to be spread out on display in front of the lesser folk to make themselves feel good are every bit the jerks you think they'd be. They generally aren't even that rich (although some of them are). The best rich guys are just good dudes without a lot of money worries. They live in nice places, have stupid-cool cars, gorgeous wives, and take nice vacations-- but all of it is low key. You can have a beer with them and talk about football. They admire (or pretend to, anyhow) my stuff-- the kind of things they could buy with pocket change. You wouldn't know they were Daddy Warbucks unless you did business with them.
If that kind of guy has a stable full of rare and collectible cars, and if he needs one of the cars to be on the lawn at Pebble Beach with judges crawling all over it in order to command a higher price at the time of sale-- I can guarantee he wouldn't be doing any of this himself. He'd pay somebody (probably the guy he paid to restore it) to do the dog and pony show for him. The name of the owner would be withheld or obfuscated-- because he just doesn't want to flaunt it. There's no upside to it.
I'd like to think I'd be that guy, especially given that I really do think the whole thing is a fine art auction process masquerading as enthusiasm for a particular automobile.
I like looking at cars a lot. I like all manner of cruise-ins, Cars and Coffee, Caffeine and Gasoline, and any other unjudged event. I like having the 20 minute conversation with the guy at the gas station. I appreciate the nods from guys in cool cars heading the opposite direction. I'd put my car in a magazine, if the opportunity arose. But even the idea of sitting beside my car in a lawn-chair at the local super-show, for passersby to paw over and perhaps catch a glimpse of Mr. Smarmypants (me?) sitting in the shade doesn't interest me. At all.
I would not (under normal circumstances) allow an arbitrary third party to judge the worth of my own stuff, unless the purpose was strictly commercial-- and even then I have a hard time reconciling it.
I'm serious. I find it unseemly.
Judged Porsche concourse events = Emperor's clothing! That's why this plebeian left that caucus many years ago.
Not for everyone, unless you're the Emperor. 
Or don’t wear clothing. 😱
I do enjoy sitting in a chair at a show watching passers-by react to my car and the conversations that sometimes happen.
Next month I will be participating in the Woodward Dream Cruise with a million people and 40,000 cars.
I like car shows too. Both to ogle other people's cool-ass autos and to watch people ogle mine. I'm shallow like that.
I also love, love, love a nice drive on a shaded country road, a trip to the orchard to pick apples, a twisty, challenging drive through a mountain pass and a blast down 300 miles of highway—especially if my buddies are along, driving similarly atavistic conveyances.
Hell, even a run on an autoX track! Hell yes to that!
Part of the joy of owning a PCC like these is parading/galavanting them out on public roads and watching strangers react. You're bringing a measure of joy into other people's lives—other people whose lives are probably very different from your own. Other people who may or may not vote against the same politicians as you. You're creating a moment of common ground—and nostalgia for a thing and a time that everyone agrees was objectively better even though we all also know for a fact that it was actually objectively worse.
And this is just as true at a car show, judged or not. It's even true with these owners of "real" "original" "actual" "Porsches."
In other words: it's all good, man.
Like I said, I'm not really putting this stuff down.
I just find it all a little, well, funny.
And what do I mean by 'funny'? Well, you know...
Stan, this paragraph has a lot of truth to it.
"If that kind of guy has a stable full of rare and collectible cars, and if he needs one of the cars to be on the lawn at Pebble Beach with judges crawling all over it in order to command a higher price at the time of sale-- I can guarantee he wouldn't be doing any of this himself. He'd pay somebody (probably the guy he paid to restore it) to do the dog and pony show for him. The name of the owner would be withheld or obfuscated-- because he just doesn't want to flaunt it. There's no upside to it."
The guy doing my Alfa restoration has to sometimes do the dog and pony show for the judged cars he has restored for owners.
