Floor Boards

Does anyone know if original speedsters had plywood floor boards? The 1954 coupe that I owned had wood boards with rubber mattes on top. My reason is that my 02 vintage that I purchased used about 2 months ago is wet under the carpet that is glue to felt padding and is very hard to dryout. Not sure if it was wet when I purchased or if it got wet from a brief rain storm I got caught in. It would not be all that difficult to make floor boards as I somewhat remember the was the 54 was. I think I saw some photos on site where they had boards.

Lew

Lewis, I would bet it got wet from the rainstorm you got caught in. Mine does the same, and others have described the same problem after driving in rain. Some have sworn that they experience no such problem. And yep, its a bit of work to dry it out, I ended up pulling up carpet (floor area only) and felt padding, leaving it closed up in the garage with a dehumidifier running a couple days. I think if you do a forum search you'll see that problem, its cause, and possible solutions have been discussed at length. I'm just avoiding driving in rain. I seem to recall reading that some early 356's had raised wood floor portions. But I don't think that would be a good solution for these replicas, it would be better to find a way to keep the water from coming in.

Definitely! I'm one of the affected ones; I think it's a matter of sealing the joint between body and pan. It could be a bitch to find out exactly where it's leaking but that's the fun part; in fact I already have the silicone to do it but haven't gotten around to do it. I also avoid driving in the rain; it took 2 full weeks for the carpeting to dry in my car, especially behind the seats where it got soaked.

So three for three late model Vintage Speedsters leak. Not a slam on Kirk but for future owners it may be good to point out the problem to Vintage. Not everyone lives in "it never rains in California."

In the older CMC speedsters sometimes there is a large void in the rear tunnel area arch...big enough to but your fingers into.

Get the car up on jack stands turn out the garage lights and do a good search with a light from the underside of the chassis.

A can of expandable foam with a piece of hose attached to it will allow some access to the rear tunnel area . Silicone is good enough for the rest.

Seat mounting bolts and seat belt bolts can also be a source of water coming in, I buy large rubber washers that look like fender washers and with a bit of silicone set them between the chassis floor and the washers on the bolts as a sealer.

After the sealers have set, check again for any light getting through any missed areas.

I didn't have the void area at the back of my CMC, but I had a really big one in the front, just at the top of the tunnel where it meets the front bulkhead. Looked like the curve of the body's frame member didn't quite match the pan tunnel shape.

Instead of squirting a little silicone caulk in there, I just unloaded a LOT in successive layers, letting each layer cure a little before I did the next one. Three layers and it was done.

Oh! BTW: When I put the body and pan together (way back when), I shot a 3/8's+ bead of clear silicone caulk all along the pan-to-body joint and then sat the body down onto it and it sealed really well (wonder if VS does it that way? Might be ten bucks worth of caulk and an extra 5 minutes of assembly time, but it's worth it. Might even make the pan stronger, too!

Gordon,
I'm curious, did you use the OEM VW pan gasket and the silicone on the body to pan surfaces?

I've given up on using silicone and now use a marine adhesive/sealer. It may still be silicone based but it sure works better than just ordinary silicone sealant. The stuff is really tough and can be painted and sticks well.

Brian

I wasn't aware that any 356's or VW bugs ever came with wood floor boards. Had a '62 Karman Notchback 356 and the metal floor had been replaced with a Virginia Beach issue STOP sign. Ya had to be careful not to open both doors at the same time. The floor is integral to the chassis regidity since it is a unitized monocoque body --- especially needed for the open roofed models. I'm sure there are some with "aftermarket fixes". I did have a '59 MGA that had wood floor boards but it had a proper frame to attach them to (the passenger could also accellerate for you since it was designed to accommodate right hand steering).

Thank's for all the replys, it seems there is some common source of leaks in the Vintage speedsters. I still didn't get an answer about original speedster floor configuration. I may have been misunderstood about wood floor boards. By this I meant that it was a plywood board that sat on attached wood rails on the the metal bottom pan. I have since ripped out felt pad and will look for a better way to install floor carpet. I'm considering Velcro strips that would allow easy removal of carpet for what ever reason.

Lew

I would think that the plywood would hold moisture.
ed

Lew, you might check Bret Johnson's 356 restoration book about the wood floor panels above the metal pan, seems like I've read that somewhere. After I'd pulled up my carpet pieces and the felt padding, I just placed the carpet back in position without glue or padding, floor mats on top - suits me fine, it hasn't slid around any.

Alan:

I did not use a VW body-to-pan rubber gasket on my car.

I only used GE Commercial Clear Silicone Sealant from Home Depot's infamous Paint Department. It comes in "normal" tubes for home use, as well as those honkin-big tubes for pneumatic guns. I borrowed a pneumatic caulking gun from a friend and laid down two 3/8"-1/2" wide beads side-by-side along the pan-to-body joint (it took three big tubes for the car). I used the pneumatic gun to get everything done before the caulk fully set up, but I found that it sets up over about 15 - 20 minutes so a hand-worked "home" gun would have worked just fine, if you're quick.

After I went around the whole joint, three of us lowered the body down onto the pan and wiggled it around until the four, corner bolt holes lined up (dropped a bolt in each one), and the wiggling smooshed the caulk around and filled the voids. Still, I had a few gaps at the rear, and a BIG one at the top of the tunnel at the front, which I eventually filled with successive layers of clear caulk, smooshing it into the gaps with a finger. I did that to any other holes or gaps I found, too (non-joint related, like access holes and such) as I was going around the pan.

Wiped away all the excess inside and out to make it all neat and let it set up while I was putting all of the body bolts in, then tightened everything down and trimmed the inside/outside joints again and that was it. Probably'll adhere forever, and as far as I know I have no leaks.

When I've been caught in the rain while driving and could keep moving, the floors never get wet so nothing's finding it's way in through the joint.

gn 8>)

Gordon
Thanks for the info, up till now, used pan gaskets but may give the silicone a try...On the current speedster project I've completed the roller chassis and just starting to get the doors, hood and deck lid hinged and aligned and the body prepped for paint .......

Lew,

All wooden floor boards/false floors were stopped with the introduction of the A series (1956).

Luck,

TC

BTW, Alan: After I got my body on, one of the mechanical designers I worked with mentioned that it might have even been better to run the beads and then let them partially set up (like an hour set-up time) and THEN put the body on. That would create something almost like your rubber gasket and supposedly give a better seal as the body wouldn't squish as much of the caulk out when settling.

Don't know, but my seal came out well.

gn

TC

Thanks for floorboard info. Now to track down source of leak even though it's not my intention to be driving in the rain, you never know when you might get caught.

Lew

Lewis:

Someone on here (Ron O'Black, I think) said that they all leak somewhere when received from the manufacturer, so don't feel too bad.
Someone else up above in this thread (Alan?) mentioned the trick of parking in a dark garage at night and having someone shine a flashlight along the pan to body joint while you watch from within the cockpit for light shining through. Find your leaks that way, and plug 'em all with clear silicon caulk (contrary to popular belief, I DO NOT hold stock in the GE silicone caulk company, it just works well). Don't forget the spaces around brake lines and wires/cables as they go through those little bulkhead areas, too, and any possible holes in the floor.

They're not hard to plug, just a PITA. and remember, plugging all those spaces will give you more heat in the cockpit in colder weather, too.

Gordon ,
You forgot to add "by plugging the leaks you don't have to pick your feet up as you travel through deep puddles" .....
........ just like the old VW days !

Alan,

I believe the CMC manual specifically recommended only using the caulk and NOT using the rubber casket. Not sure why.