F'n Wheel wells!!!

I'm here man. :) - yup that is my name on TS.

The axle info is hard to understand because you can buy the narrowed rear trailing arms that are 1.5" narrower. The axle length difference is not however 1.5"

IIRC it is closer to 1.2". That means that the CV's in the 1.5" narrowed arms are squished a bit (.15" per joint)

a bit confused yet? I couldn't find this info anywhere on the net. But i can tell you i have the parts sitting in my garage and sources for new parts.

the type 3 with IRS (a rare car) with an automatic (even more rare) has different length driver and passengers side axles. i understand the transaxle to be offset a bit. Because of this, *ONE* side is narrower. This is the one you want to get and i posted links to buy. i bought mine from Chrico and they were great. fast shipping and i am up in Canada and they are in AZ.

So, i will walk you through the whole process. just ask what questions you need and i will help.

oh and the guys from CIP don't know about this, nor can they get the axles. They thought all T1's were the same length. (insert roll eyes icon here.)

OK Paul, you asked for it.

As I mentioned, I have one more possibility with the wheels and I should know by mid next week if it'll happen. If not, then it's all "arms and axles" for me.

Yes, I am pretty confused at this point but I think between what you know and what my buddy (mechanic) knows and me just standing around, we can get this done. Now, you mentioned you have the parts in your garage? If so, are you lookin to sell the axles? If not, could you direct me to what exactly I need to buy from Chirco to get this done, is it the 15 5/8 ones? I can get the arms from Aircooled, and maybe even the axles, but I need to know what length to order. Or I could check the junk yard out. Either way I need to know what it is I'm looking for lengthwise. Also, am I OK using my existing CV's, ect.... or do I need to get all new stuff? Thanks, Mickey

if you have money growing on trees - then buy it all at aircooled. For me, i pick and choose where i spend $$ on my speedy because i have a welder, full shop and a huge roller of tools, plus i really enjoy the self-satisfaction of doing it yourself.

The arms aircooled sells have had very poor fitment reviews (the angles are apparently off).

i do not have the axles you are looking for. i have essentally brand new T1 stock length axles that i took off and replaced with the narrower T3 axles.

I bought my stuff from Joe (owner of chirco) jc@chirco.com. He didnt know about the axle lengths either, but he had them in front of him so he measured and this was his response:

"It was so worth getting out of bed this morning, I got to learn something, Upon further digging I have found the drivers side T-3 with auto stick to measure 15 5/16" long, The passengers with the same tranny measures 17 1/4" and the standard IRS 4 speed are 16 3/8" on both sides. Let me know and I can order the shortest ones for you. I would have them in my hands on Wednesday. Thanks Joe Chirco."

So - i paid $302.26 and that included shipping from AZ to my place (an igloo). axles were: $259.90 (i just checked my records)

the rest of the info (lengths, pictures, URLs, etc) are on TS.

Be sure to get *two* of these: Type 3 LEFT IRS axle

Doesn't everyone have a money tree in their backyard? Just kidding. I just figured if the wheel mod can't work, and I'm going to the extent of all the other stuff (new engine, trans, exhaust, body work, ect...) why not go a little extra and get the wheels I want. I've been looking for other alternatives and I can't seem to find anything else that I really like. I just got a call from my friend that restores vintage porsches so I'm going down today to see him about the wheel mods.
I really appreciate the info Paul. I might be able to get the type 3 axles at the junkyard locally, but with the luck I've been having with this sort of thing lately, they probably won't have them. If not, I'll be sure to call Chirco for the axles. I'll also call aircooled to see if they've sorted out the fitment issues on their arms. If they haven't, would you be up for welding up another set? I'll pay ya $10 american! :) Thanks again Paul

i'll save you the time of looking in the junk yards. they're are none.

and your $10USD is, what, $8 cdn? LOL (thank your prez for that, eh?)

also, i doubt aircooled will tell you about fitment problems. Search the net (not just thesamba)

Good luck. :)

Ooops! Too late Paul. I just ordered the arms and axles from aircooled. However I did ask about the fitment and John said they've fixed it. I know, I know, trust me, between ordering stuff for my car, getting work done on my businesses, and redoing my master bath at home, I'm going through a lot of "mis-info" things right now. I'm just to the point of "I'll get, if it fits great, if not then I have to continue working it out." I'm getting accustomed to being dissappointed in some way lately (except Careys deck lid fit perfect which was nice). I know I'm moving in the right direction but I also know that it probably won't be one of those "bolt-on and done" deals either, I anticipate a lot of cussing in the near future. So, we'll see what happens when this stuff gets here? I plan on a day or two of new wheels, the trailing arms, axles, front supports, lowered shocks up front, coil overs in the rear, rear sway bar, brakes and a few other things I'm sure I'm forgetting. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again for all your help so far.

hey - that's great news. congrats on your purchase. out of curiosity - what did the setup run? axles and both trailing arms?

You'll need new inner and outer seals and bearings. you'll alkso need to use your stub axles from your IRS (the piece of the axle that fits inside the trailing arm). All are easy to swap in/out, but will take a bit more time.

get new bearing (don't transfer them over from your old IRS). they get a bit banged up sliding them out, so make sure you get a good punch. u used a 2x4 shaped to fit to soften the blow when installing the bearings. I was told they are press in, but you can bang them in just fine. careful not the mark the bearing race / surface / etc)

Good luck on the install.

Thanks for the info Paul. I'm compiling a list of parts I'll need to get this done. Are the CV's OK to use again? I don't think the axles I ordered come with them. I found the complete axles today for $175 each so I just went with the bare axle figuring I could use my existing cv's, boots, ect....
I was a tough pill to swallow but so far the set up has run me $700 +shpg. It remains to be seen what else looms on the money horizon.
I just know this; if I didn't do it I'd forever look at my car knowing that it's not set up exactly the way I want it. And since I've been doing that ever since I bought it I don't want to do it anymore. I'm goin all out on this one! I'm spending more than I wanted but I just refuse to do it half assed.

ohh man - you ordered the axles seperatly. I know for a fact you cannot get the T3 left axle seperatly. i spoke with EMPI califonia on that one. Same with Bugpack and CIP. You can get the 15 5/8" ones pretty much anywhere:
http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13%2D16%2D2202

They are using the bus tranny to bug chassis axles (same ones CIP sells). they are narrower than the stock T1 ones (16 1/4"), but not as narrow as the T3 left ones (15 5/16")

Basically - what you have - will work, but you overpaid. :-(

sorry to break the news to you.

but to answer your Q - you can swap your CV's to the new axles. It's a messy-ass job, but can be done in a few hrs. wear latex gloves too. :)

edit: i forgot to mention, you will also need your axle spacer setup from your old trailing arms:
http://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C12%2D5046

i tried to swap mine out and spent so much time pissing around that i said screw it and bought a new set of spacers.

This will all make sence once you get into the install.

Thanks Paul.
Should I bail on the axles from aircooled then and just order the T3 ones from Chirco (or the other source my buddie found today at $175 complete)? It looks like a difference of $80, which I'll take anywhere I can get. The ones I ordered are "racing axles" which means nothing to me but I would assume they're a little stonger than stock.
John at Aircooled told me they don't HAVE to be T3 axles for what I'm trying to do being that the difference is 5/16 in length and the axles float in the CV's anyway.
I'm just looking to make sure I have everything I need when it comes so I don't get tied up waiting for parts in the middle of the install. So let me make sure I get this right; I need an axle spacer set up, 2 axle bearings, inner and outer seals and bearings (is this the same as axle bearings?). I can use the stub axles from my existing setup. What else?

money is money. i personally would cancel and find a cheaper palce and get the right ones.

"racing axles" are chromoly. if it makes you feel better, the T3 axles are much bigger (probably 5mm) in diameter and shorter, so technically, they are a performance upgrade. it would take hundreds and hundreds of HP to break one.

Dude. Did they quit selling hubcaps?

Kidding, natch'rally. Remember, we're right down the road and not afraid of grease. Holler when you need help, okay?

I don't WANT no stinkin hubcabs! Thanks for the offer Cory.

Paul,
Are you saying Chirco has the T3 left axles (15 5/16") in stock? If so, can you get just the left one or do you have to buy 2 sets? I'm gonna cancel the aircooled axles monday if they haven't shipped already. I wouldn't mind getting a set with the cv's already on them to save a little time, and a lot of shop soap to get my hands clean after doing that job. I'll wait to hear from you before I call Chirco. By the way, can I throw your name out to them?

Is this what I want (x2)?
http://www.chircoestore.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=257_258_308&products_id=4446

they had them in stock when i bought them and i picked up two. They were sold each, so you could buy two of the short ones.

Here is what i sent to Joe:

"Stock Beetle axles are 415.5mm long.
The LEFT axle from a Type 3 with an automatic axle are 26mm shorter, or
389.5mm.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=274359
"

JPS had the rear wheels for the green coupe modified - wide 5 - 15x6 width - 1.5 to outside, 4.5 to inside. Fits under with 205 tires. Tis is the same idea as Cary suggested. No problems with the wheels & tires.

Thanks Tom. I don't know if the wells on the coupe are different or not. I have almost NO room (1/4") between the outer tire edge and the inside well, and that's even after I shaved the wheel well down.
I don't think the wheels can be modified to fit well enough to make it worth it. I would guess that even after I had the centers moved I'd still be tighter than I'd like. That's why I decided to go the trailing arm/axle route. In the end I'll have more room and therefore more options when it comes to wheel widths and tires.

Paul,
I cancelled the axles from aircooled and order the T3's from Joe at Chirco today. He said they'll go out wednesday. If all goes well I should have this all sorted out and installed by the end of the month.

Shaaawweeeet!

Glad it all worked out for you.

pretty soon you'll be tuckin those wide 5's

(PS there is no engine in this car, so it'll tuck even more)

Arms arrived today, still waiting on the axles. Once I have all the parts in I'll do my best to document everything (parts, manufactuers, prices, ect) and photo log the process so if anyone else wants to go to this hell I'm about to enter they can see what they'll be in for. I'm looking to start this project next week.

sweeeeet! I'm excited for you. :)

Mickey -

Good luck with your project! Be careful not to bang/scrape/gouge too many of your knuckles. I'm sure your customers would object to finding a used band-aid in the marinara sauce at your restaurant (that toe-nail was bad enough!).