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I'm a VW splitty fanatic, so I went to another VW bus event here in Long Beach, SoCal. The OCTO Club (Orange County Transporter Organization) bi-annually sponsors a swap & display meet for pre-67 VW buses. Typically there are 200+ buses on display. Too many pics to post but here are a few interesting buses. Also, notice the market pricing for these bad boys is still strong $$$$.

Click on pics to enlarge for better detail...

OCTO1OCTO2OCTO3OCTO4OCTO5OCTO6OCTO7OCTO8OCTO9OCTO10OCTO11  OCTO12OCTO13OCTO14OCTO15Looks like someone is taking their pet 'fruit bat' for a ride in this stroller...LOLOCTO16OCTO17OCTO18

'64 VW 21-window Samba, check out the asking price...YIKES!OCTO19OCTO20OCTO21

My personal favorite at this event!OCTO22

PEACE-OUT!

MusbJim - aka; El Guapo, the most guapo hombre in all of SoCal! 

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Original Post

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I went to a HUGE all-makes show yesterday with the Spyder. There was a crowd around the Spyder all day long. I like to stand back and listen to some of the comments, it can be entertaining and funny.

There was a real-deal 4-cam Speedster Carrera there. Also a weird green 356C coupe with black Fuchs and all matte-black trim. And LOTS and LOTS of American iron.

One guy though had some serious questions and asked "how much?". I said 80k. He didn't bat an eye(I didn't sell it!). I know you could get one from Greg or Carey for 55-60k but wait 3 years for it. All the stuff I've done and the fact that the car WORKS on every level makes it special to me.

It was a long car weekend for me, I spent Friday and Saturday at the NER FV final race of the season. What a great finish to their season. I'll be in it and sending it next year.

Anyway, Jim, thanks for those pics, I LOVE seeing these!

Last edited by DannyP

"Kills me how center benches are fetching $1,000<. Everyone took them out and tossed them BITD." - @dlearl476

I know, who woulda thunk....?

@DannyP - I'm pretty sure your Spyder draws a huge crowd everywhere it shows up, my brutha. Your fabrication and mods make that bad-boy worth every penny of $80K.

@Joe Fortino - wow, that's pretty cool you know of this old VW fire engine from Kiddeland. Small world.

@jncspyder - Jimbo, these buses are absolutely a dog on the road. Lots of choices on how to spend beaucoup $$ on a car, but these just have the cool vibe that reflects my 73 year old Guaponess!

BW19BW18

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Last edited by MusbJim
@jncspyder posted:

yikes! $40K for that?...it's a museum piece...slightly more HP...but still 2nd gear i bet on BAKER GRADE going to vegas  haa!       for that money you could have a 993 and cruise to vegas in style....again just IMHO

You're dreaming. $40K won't touch that - not even in the same time-zone.

It may not be your cuppa tea, but every pot has a lid, and I guarantee the reserve on a 21 window splitty is north of $75K (probably WAY north).

If I were giving the BaT over/under on it, I'd set the number at $100K. I'd take "over" if it were 6 months ago, but it's probably get bid to $70-something and not make reserve.

Last edited by Stan Galat
@Stan Galat posted:

You're dreaming. $40K won't touch that - not even in the same time-zone.

It may not be your cuppa tea, but every pot has a lid, and I guarantee the reserve on a 21 window splitty is north of $75K (probably WAY north).

If I were giving the BaT over/under on it, I'd set the number at $100K. I'd take "over" if it were 6 months ago, but it's probably get bid to $70-something and not make reserve.

It was actually converted to a 21 window but I agree, it's going well north of 40K, the build pics are extensive.

This and a 993 are apples and grapefruits, it depends on what you're after. But the stares, comments, thumbs up and cool factor certainly lands on this side of the fence, not even close imo.

Last edited by WNGD

Still not safe in a crosswind.

I never drove an old aircooled bus, but this certainly had merit in my '91 Westfalia.

If I had kept it, it would have gotten an EJ25, lowered springs, Bilstein shocks, and plus 2 wheels and tires(16"). That still may have not helped.

I remember driving South to Georgia and going through Fancy Gap, VA with about 1/4 turn of rudder to keep her straight in high winds!

@DannyP in the late 70's while driving my '68 van in a storm in the santa cruz coastal mountains...i changed 2 FULL LANES in some real deal high winds without moving the steering wheel...believe me!...that will get your attention.....pulled over shut it off and shook for a bit till i regained my senses...lets not even talk about how you have a BEER CAN between you and anything solid behind the wheel...but back then we didn't think that way i guess.....good times

I'm guessing the wind deflection and lane change issues in a VW bus have less to do with the design of the actual bus and more to do with the dodgy simplistic suspension, imprecise steering, thin rubber tires, and maybe the lack of power.

In modern day times we have no fewer than a dozen boxes on wheels to include the Ram Promaster van, Chevy Express, MB Sprinter, Ford Transit, Nissan NV, and many others. Other than a slightly sloping nose most of these are about as aerodynamic as a brick much like the old VW bus.

IMHO if you lowered the stance, put on lower profile wider tires, a much better suspension, and more power I think the VW bus would be a fine grocery getter and not nearly as apt to change lanes unless you intend to change lanes.

@Stan Galat posted:

You're dreaming. $40K won't touch that - not even in the same time-zone.

It may not be your cuppa tea, but every pot has a lid, and I guarantee the reserve on a 21 window splitty is north of $75K (probably WAY north).

If I were giving the BaT over/under on it, I'd set the number at $100K. I'd take "over" if it were 6 months ago, but it's probably get bid to $70-something and not make reserve.

A 60 23 window ragtop like my family owned went for well north of $150K last year. And it wasn’t even a Westie, most especially, it wasn’t a Westie Weekender* like ours. I’m guessing if we still had it, and it was restored, it would probably be worth around $200K. I’ve never, ever seen another one like it.


*BITD, a Weekender was a model that the camping stuff could be removed and replaced with the 2 benches in back. With the advent of the Bay windows, a Weekender was just a different Westie with less options. (No heater and fridge, iirc)

@Robert M posted:

I'm guessing the wind deflection and lane change issues in a VW bus have less to do with the design of the actual bus and more to do with the dodgy simplistic suspension, imprecise steering, thin rubber tires, and maybe the lack of power.

In modern day times we have no fewer than a dozen boxes on wheels to include the Ram Promaster van, Chevy Express, MB Sprinter, Ford Transit, Nissan NV, and many others. Other than a slightly sloping nose most of these are about as aerodynamic as a brick much like the old VW bus.

IMHO if you lowered the stance, put on lower profile wider tires, a much better suspension, and more power I think the VW bus would be a fine grocery getter and not nearly as apt to change lanes unless you intend to change lanes.

I've got a '64 splitty, lowered pretty aggressively (flipped spindles, and a newly bushed adjustable narrowed beam). It sits on 50 profile tires. It's got a straight-axle conversion (no reduction boxes) and Airkewld discs on the front. I've got a new steering assembly (like, brand new), and tight tie-rods and Pitman arm.

I've never driven a stock transporter, but my son-in-law (who was in love with the bus) drove it one block, pulled over, and said, "this thing isn't safe".

He's right. I'm not sure that it can be made to be anything other than it is: the ultimate Shriner clown car.

Last edited by Stan Galat

I’d take a WAG that that’s on your suspension mods. My family had a stock ‘60 that probably had 60-75,000 miles on it without issue by the time we sold it.
Driving microbusses is a weird deal because you sit high over/in front of the front wheels. More like an RV or a cab over heavy truck than a Lotus Elan. But it’s perfectly safe.

@dlearl476 posted:

… it’s perfectly safe.

Didn’t we have 3 or 4 posts up there about lack of stability in crosswinds, and then one about how suspension mods might improve the situation? I thought the “interesting handling” was pretty well established, and beyond arguing - but where there’s a will, there’s a way.

Let’s just agree that nobody will mistake a transporter for a 911 in a double-blind test.  

I do, however take it back about never having driven a stock transporter - I remembered that I did drive a splitty full of orphans at a mission in Brazil 20 years back. The handling of that one in the mud bog impersonating a road was roughly similar to mine here in the snow - which is to say, “it was a hoot”. I cannot attest to the prowess of either one on good roads since there really aren’t any here, and weren’t any there. Again, I doubt anybody would mistake it for anything other than what it is.

I don’t feel like Hurley Haywood driving it, or like an OTR trucker. I feel like a Shriner clown trying not to lose my legs.  

… and that gets to the part of the story where we talk about the safety of any of them (stock or modified). My son-in-law accurately noted that everything from his knees down was the crumple-zone of the thing. Not “in the crumple-zone”, the actual soft pink parts that would for sure be crumpled - almost as if is was by design.

The carrying capacity (for the comically small outside dimensions of the thing) is otherworldly, but it very much seems like any other design goals the Sainted German Engineers may have hoped to incorporate went out the window in the service of making more space. I’m not sure that “safety” was ever a consideration, even from the beginning.

Last edited by Stan Galat

We used to go up to Vermont skiing in a friend's Mom's VW bus when I was a kid.  I don't think it was a "splitty" but it was bigger on the inside than on the outside, just like Dr. Who's space ship.

I was always fine when riding in back, but it was always a bit un-nerving to be riding shotgun.  Like you were right there, as the first person at a potential crash and stopping in traffic was like sitting on the next guy's trunk.  

I usually managed to find a seat in the back....

With 6 of us, I rarely got “shotgun,” though plenty of times I got “middle” between my mom and dad.* You know how kids on long trips can be.

The biggest cheat though was my dad would never let us open the sunroof and stand on the seats and “hang out” like some big pups.

Like I posted before, our camping stuff was removable which meant we had a slide-in “kitchen unit” that went crossways behind the front seats. It would have been perfect to kneel on and rest your elbows on the roof.

*I can’t remember if I posted this here or somewhere else, but I was sitting in the middle of the front seat when our dash clock died at 6:05pm somewhere in Idaho on our way to the Seattle World’s Fair. It remained at 6:05 as long as we owned it out of deference.



This is what a standard 60 Westie looks like. Ours was a 23 window ragtop.

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Last edited by dlearl476

I've seen videos of a few different versions of that racing bus.  The one I posted was supposedly a Porsche twin turbo 993 underneath - Engine, drive train and suspension (but probably with 1-3/4" diameter anti-sway bars!).

I've seen another bus running the Nurburgring with 911 suspension and a flat-6 engine.  It probably sounds a LOT like Bob Carley's IM-6!  I especially like the @ALB air freshener hanging by the windshield.

This one's pretty cool, too!

Last edited by Gordon Nichols

I had to stop. The more I found out, the sicker I got. I think I posted before that a home handyman-type guy promised my dad some home repairs in exchange for our bus. He never came through, so he basically stole our bus.

I spoke to my brother who was 7 years older than I was (15vs8) about how it went down. Apparently, our local dealer told my Dad that if he had a local address (we did, we lived in Paris for 9 months) he could go into any VW dealership and buy a camper and he would only have to pay 50% of the sales tax/import duty when he brought it back (as a used car) vs 100% if we did Euro delivery.

Only problem was that when he did that, the dealer told him it would take 6 months to get a full-on Westie. BUT, he could sell him a 23 Window Samba bus off the showroom floor and order the camping bits from Westfalia and install them in a week.

Soooo…

It looks like there’s a non-zero chance that we had the ONLY 23 Window rag top Westie in the US. Most assuredly the only ‘60. And it was pretty much stolen from us.



In more pleasant news: a guy just called me and offered me 75% of what I was asking for my 59 Dorsett Catalina and he’ll be here tomorrow to pick it up.

Last edited by dlearl476
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