Front Axle Beam Width

On my last build (the one that Alan Merklin finished) I bought a complete front beam from SoCal Imports.

It was a complete Ball-joint front end, standard width, everything there spindle to spindle, and had Avis adjusters already installed (because I can't weld worth a darn, but I'm getting better!)

Can't remember the price, but it seemed worth it at the time.  Shipping was a bear, tho.....

Installing either Avis adjusters or the bolt-style hobbies is an easy job for a competent welding shop.  In the center of the beam tube is a metal donut that the torsion bar leaves pass through.  It is held stationary by that big "Grub Bolt" sticking out of the beam.  A channel is cut around the grub bolt position in an arc down on the front of the beam (easy to do with an angle grinder/cutter) and the adjuster base is welded to the outside of the beam (without cutting a hole through the beam tube, as I usually do).  The other half of the adjuster is a new grub bolt that is screwed into the same center donut that is now allowed to move up and down in the channel but is held in a fixed position by the adjuster mechanism.  

That's it.  Should take a decent welder about 30-45 minutes per tube.

The IMPORTANT part is getting the cut channel in the right position/attitude to give you the drop that you want when it's all done.

Thanks Gordon.  Somehow I knew a fellow CMC'er would respond.  I had another thought last night and didn't post it.  As a poor man's approach is it possible to drill another hole in the existing beam in the same plane as the grub screw is now and send the grub screw through that hole?  Does there need to be set of threads for the screw on the tube itself or are there threads in the puck inside the tube to catch the screw?  If thats the case I realize that the height 'adjustment' would be fixed but I need to get some ride height back to unload the front end.  Its really making the ride intolerable now that I have replaced other parts and can't get to the Fuchs wheels I inquired about this past week.

I was looking at pictures of your car and its attitude and it definitely looks higher than mine in the front but looks good.  Somehow 'right' for the car. If I could get to that point and get some better road manners it would help a lot. BTW, are you using regular ball joints or the lowered ones?  I have regulars and maybe they are limiting travel as well.  My rake is too extreme when I compare it to other cars I see.

Thanks, Frank

Frank:

As a poor man's approach is it possible to drill another hole in the existing beam in the same plane as the grub screw is now and send the grub screw through that hole?  

Yes, but you would have to be pretty damn good at predicting exactly where you want the car to sit before drilling that second hole.  The VW designers probably went to a lot of trouble to put that hole where they did, and then they couldn't ever change the torsion bar stack-up spring rates unless they changed the angle that hole is at, Nes Pa?  It would be a helluva lot easier to do the channel thingie I described above and put in an adjuster.

Does there need to be set of threads for the screw on the tube itself or are there threads in the puck inside the tube to catch the screw?  

The puck is, indeed, threaded.  There is no need to thread the tube (it's too thin to thread, anyway).  Once the grub screw is in the puck, a simple locknut on the outside of the tube will hold everything in place.

If thats the case I realize that the height 'adjustment' would be fixed (yeah, whether it's "right" or not...) but I need to get some ride height back to unload the front end.  Its really making the ride intolerable now that I have replaced other parts and can't get to the Fuchs wheels I inquired about this past week.

I was looking at pictures of your car and its attitude and it definitely looks higher than mine in the front but looks good.  Somehow 'right' for the car.

I mentioned elsewhere (maybe replying to Jack?) that the "look" depends on a number of related factors:  Wheel diameter, tire sidewall size, overall desired height, etc.  I set my height sever times and then stood off to the side and eyeballed it each time before I decided "this is it".  What my eyeball likes might not suit yours.  Believe it or not, the color of the car comes into play, too.

If I could get to that point and get some better road manners it would help a lot. BTW, are you using regular ball joints or the lowered ones?  

I'm running regular ball joints and they seem to have adequate travel, but I'm running a pair of extra-adjustment-movement Camber adjusters.  Those make life a lot easier when trying to align the puppy.  Jack Crosby turned me on to them and I LUV 'em!  Camber adjusters shouldn't change overall movement of the joints, though.

I have regulars and maybe they are limiting travel as well.  My rake is too extreme when I compare it to other cars I see.

So what would I recommend for you?  I have not seen your torsion tubes, but just about anything is repairable with a good welder.  Get the proper, repositioned angle of the grub screw from another CMC (me, perhaps) and a pair of Avis adjusters from Berg or anybody and have a good welder install them as directed - it should be easy for them and the whole shebang should cost a couple of Benjamins.  The adjusters should correct the mistaken position you currently have, and whatever is left open on the tube can be patched with a welded in, overpatch of the same thickness as the tube to return strength to the tubes (If necessary - the adjuster plates' coverage might be enough)..

As usual, a definitive, fool-proof answer and tech tip from Gordon! Sure appreciate all the  knowledge you share on this site, my brutha! 

Indeed! Now I have solid food for thought Gordon.  I've done a fair amount to this car this year or 'season' alone but find it hard to enjoy the fruits of my labor with a harsh ride. Im not in the mood to start with wheels and tires at this point since I don't feel that a 1" diameter decrease in wheel size will make the type of impact I am hoping for.  That leaves me with trying to put the top torsion tube back in the realm of or closer to where it started life rather than its current position turned straight down.  

So Gordon, do you know, from your past/vast experience, if the original position was at a similar angle to the lower tube (which on mine has not been cut and welded)? I might try one hole in the tube before having adjusters welded in as, if its wrong, will probably be incorporated into a slot in any case.  That might satisfy my curiosity if this is the direction I need to go in to get the results for which I hope.

Thanks for all the feedback/advice,

Frank

In addition, I read where having a car very low in the front will ride on the ball joints (by trying to exceed their travel/slotted area) making the ride harsh.  The set of joints I replaced were pretty over-slotted so I wonder if a little ride height will put them back in their range of travel, give a more compliant ride and make them last longer as well.  I did phone CIP1 before I installed the new ball joints to ask about the lowered ball joints (read about them after buying a complete set of regulars) and was told that unless the car was "slammed" I most likely would not need them.  At this point I'm wondering.  In any case, lots of elements at play here and still learning....

Alright, I gave in and ordered a new beam with adjusters on both tubes from CB Performance.  The suggestion to buy parts and have them welded in got me nervous about the local shops none of whom work on these cars.  I prefer to have the work done by a reputable shop that works specifically on VW stuff and uses jigs and all and sells lots of parts. This beam will provide adjustment from 'stock height to 3 1/2 inches lower'.   That should do the trick. Thanks for the responses in helping nudge me in the right direction.

You learned pretty fast, Frank. Starting over is almost always the cheapest and best approach.

Yeah Stan.  I got it.  Screw screwing around.  Why not take apart all the stuff I just got through putting back together.  This time it'll go more quickly and I know all the fastener sizes by heart....