Front End Wander

Yikes!!! Yes, replace that pronto!!!

Get a German rubber/rag joint ONLY! DO NOT GET ANY URETHANE! If it's cracked, replace it.

I cannot stress this enough, your life depends on it.

Also tighten the pitman arm nut, a lot of times this nut looks tight but if you really crank on it, you'll get 1/16th of a turn. This can and does make a difference, and this fix has worked for many others.

I've never seen a steering box with only one adjustment, so I don't know what to tell you there.

Also tighten the steering box attachment bolts.

@Robert M  x2 what @JMM (Michael) said!!!

Three choices here:

https://www.bugcity.com/shop/s...cd-9197-cf1b661a9f08

@DannyP posted:

Get a German rubber/rag joint ONLY! DO NOT GET ANY URETHANE! If it's cracked, replace it.

I cannot stress this enough, your life depends on it.

Also tighten the pitman arm nut, a lot of times this nut looks tight but if you really crank on it, you'll get 1/16th of a turn. This can and does make a difference, and this fix has worked for many others.

I've never seen a steering box with only one adjustment, so I don't know what to tell you there.

Also tighten the steering box attachment bolts.

That's what I was thinking too Danny. So I went out to the garage and snapped a photo of the steering box itself.

Sector screw is obviously the clean-ish nut and screw on the top. Nothing else looked like it could be tightened. Other steering boxes I've seen had an adjustment at the back of the steering box where the shaft comes in to the box but I've got nothing there.

I'll order a new rag joint and get that swapped out immediately. I'll take it for a test drive before I check the pitman arm in case today's adjustment works.

YES!  Replace it immediately!  DO NOT drive it until the coupler is replaced!

We're not kidding about this!

Also, do not use a Urethane coupler - they are junk.  They stress crack and fail just like the one you have, only much sooner.

Try to find a genuine OEM VW  part number 111415417  (fits years 53 - 72+).

https://www.bugcity.com/shop/s...ery=steering+coupler

Note:  The older ones were round, the newer OEM version is square-ish.  A new VW one should be around 20 bucks and could be from Brazil, Mexico or India and are good.  A new old stock German version will be closer to 50 bucks.

I had an issue with an after-market (non-VW or German) version that had longer than stock metal bushings used which caused the horn to short to ground through the coupler.  Replaced that with an OEM VW version and the problem vanished.

Your photo shows the adjuster on top of the box, and there is a YUGE! hex lock nut on the front (left in the photo, right on the front of the box).  That gets loosened (it's a 41mm moose) and then you need a special tool that is nothing more than a 7/8" hex nut welded to a flat piece of metal.  The nut gets cut to about half the height/thickness to fit up in there (it's a close fit to the body) and once the lock nut is loose you can use that tool to turn the adjuster (which is a depressed hex cup to accept the aforementioned nut).

I doubt that you need to adjust the steering box (although that seems to be popular on here, lately).   Just get the coupler replaced and I'll bet you'll be good to go.

Good luck Robert.

@Robert M  The best and only rag joint is the black rubber that has the reinforcing cords in it similar to a tire, anything else is "absolutely unsafe at any speed"

@DannyP @Gordon Nichols @Alan Merklin Just ordered an OEM rubber steering coupler from Air-cooled.net. The links you gave me for Bug City were good but they wanted almost $20.00 for shipping. AC was about half for the shipping costs and just a little less for the part.

Meh.  You got a good one - I'm not fussy about where it comes from!   

I was just giving the Bug City ones as an example.  I always forget about the cost of shipping, 'cuz Kathy and I get so much from Amazon with free shipping.  Kinda makes you forget about that stuff.  We got our new house generator on Amazon with free shipping from the manufacturer - 264 pounds from Ontario, California to Massachusetts!   Makes you wonder how they make any money on their stuff!

Glad you're headed in the right direction.  Don't want to see your Clown Car careening off the road somewhere!

A picture is worth a thousand words -

Chiming in here. This is a red urethane rag joint that came with the Spyder project I bought. It was installed on the steering box but with no steering column attached, so it had never once been used to turn the car's wheels.

After replacing it with a proper rubber one and getting the steering shaft dialed in, I still had just a bit of play in the steering. I was about to make a tool to adjust the box when someone (probably @DannyP) reminded me to check the nut holding on the pittman arm. I found a big socket for that and a breaker bar and, sure enough, a bit of grunt moved it an eighth turn or so. 

And that did it.

 

It might have been me. Leon Chupp changed his steering box for a loose Pittman arm. Others have followed over the years, most recently Chris T(MacDonald on here). 

@Robert M posted:

 

While I was underneath the front end looking at everything I noticed a split in the rubber mount that connects the two halves of the steering column. Is that something that should be replaced immediately and if so what brands/types of replacements should I avoid?

Ironical, given your sig line!

In related news: On my way home to NYC when I first bought my Spyder, I noticed quite a bit of wander, so much so that I bought all new ball joints. Fast forward a year until I got my car sorted enough to drive it, I discovered when I replaced the 165/78-15 tires with the ones Carey recommends that the PO had mounted the rear 5.5" wheel on the right side and both the 4.5 front wheels on the right. 

That fixed the wander right up. Sometimes I think it's a little loose on center, but the reality is that if I move one of the steering wheel spokes more than 1/2" it changes direction. Thanks for the tip on the Pittman arm, Ed. That's definitely worth a look. 

@dlearl476 posted:

Ironical, given your sig line!

In related news: On my way home to NYC when I first bought my Spyder, I noticed quite a bit of wander, so much so that I bought all new ball joints. Fast forward a year until I got my car sorted enough to drive it, I discovered when I replaced the 165/78-15 tires with the ones Carey recommends that the PO had mounted the rear 5.5" wheel on the right side and both the 4.5 front wheels on the right. 

That fixed the wander right up. Sometimes I think it's a little loose on center, but the reality is that if I move one of the steering wheel spokes more than 1/2" it changes direction. Thanks for the tip on the Pittman arm, Ed. That's definitely worth a look. 

Yep!! If you aren’t living on the edge, you’re taking up too much space. I guess my toes were the only thing hanging over the line this time. 

It's amazing how sharp the car can be with properly adjusted wheel bearings, fresh grease in the beam, good ball joints and tie-rod ends, adjusted steering box, and tight nuts everywhere. Don't forget tire pressure, balancing, and alignment. 

Well, except for the one behind the wheel!

@DannyP posted:

It's amazing how sharp the car can be with properly adjusted wheel bearings, fresh grease in the beam, good ball joints and tie-rod ends, adjusted steering box, and tight nuts everywhere. Don't forget tire pressure, balancing, and alignment. 

Well, except for the one behind the wheel!

That loose nut can never be tightened. 

Exactly!!!

Wing nuts are known to ignore loose nuts................Bruce

Also check the round clamp near the end of your steering shaft. I have found it loose causing play and crazy steering.

@PaulEllis posted:

Also check the round clamp near the end of your steering shaft. I have found it loose causing play and crazy steering.

@PaulEllis Would you mind posting a diagram or photo of that Paul? I'm not familiar with that clamp. Thank you sir.

Robert, you have two of them(in your picture above), on either side of the rubber/cloth donut. Paul is talking about the pinch bolt, one on the steering box input shaft and one on your steering shaft.

@Robert M posted:

@PaulEllis Would you mind posting a diagram or photo of that Paul? I'm not familiar with that clamp. Thank you sir.

@DannyP posted:

Robert, you have two of them(in your picture above), on either side of the rubber/cloth donut. Paul is talking about the pinch bolt, one on the steering box input shaft and one on your steering shaft.

Thank you Danny.

@PaulEllis Please disregard previous request as the referenced part is in my picture from above.

Thanks Robert. The bolt goes through a notch in the shaft to prevent the shaft from pulling free from the clamp. However, if the clamp isn't tight the shaft is able to move quite a bit creating a lot of play in your steering. I hope that made sense.

@PaulEllis posted:

Thanks Robert. The bolt goes through a notch in the shaft to prevent the shaft from pulling free from the clamp. However, if the clamp isn't tight the shaft is able to move quite a bit creating a lot of play in your steering. I hope that made sense.

So, it’s not splined then?  I’ll have to check mine. That might be causing the tiny bit of play I have. 

I can't remember if it's sounded but if the clamp or pinch bolt isn't tight the shaft will definitely turn about a quarter. I almost replaced a steering box because of the play.

All good things to check when I replace my front drums in a few weeks. 

Got an email from Air-cooled.net on Thursday that my part was on backorder but a new part was expected by the end of this week or the middle of next week. Went ahead and tightened up all of the suspension bolts as suggested by everyone here. The steering shaft pinch bolts were a tad loose but not enough, I think, to affect the steering. Tightened up one of the two pitman arm nuts. One of them turned a 1/4 turn but the other was tight as a duck's you know what. Checked the remaining nuts and everything else was tight. As soon as the new rag joint gets here I'll swap that out and give it a test drive. I'm missing some premium driving weather right now so it's been little difficult to not take the Speedster out.

Robert, did you tighten the big nut on the pitman arm? The pinch bolt in the lower right of this picture? If not, that's your huckleberry.

@DannyP posted:

Robert, did you tighten the big nut on the pitman arm? The pinch bolt in the lower right of this picture? If not, that's your huckleberry.

Missed it. I will get that one when I do the rag joint. Thank you Danny. 

Tightening that sucker by maybe one flat on the nut made a YUUUUGE difference in the steering of my Speedster.  When I read posts like this the “big nut” is always my first thought.

I didn’t see it used in this thread so I’ll just add that I believe that the proper nomenclature for that rubber impregnated canvas disc between the steering box and the steering shaft is called a
“Thermoid Coupling”.............Bruce

What's wrong with rag joint?

R

I say R-A

R-A-G

(c'mon, sing it wit me!)

R-A-G-G

RAGG!

R-A-G-G RAGG RAGG RAGG RAGG

 

So the new rag joint came in today's mail and I had it installed in about 30 minutes. Total install time included jacking up the car and collecting my tools. Also tightened up the big nut on the pitman arm. Took it for a road test and I'm still getting some wander.

Going to move to the back of the car now to see if anything at the back of the car is loose. I'll post if I find anything out of the ordinary.

And if that doesn't fix it I'll take the Speedster down to the alignment shop to have the alignment checked.

On a couple of past speedster projects I found a loose castle nut ( not to torque specs) on the rear stub axle caused wandering.

Robert, if you have the front on jackstands, how much does the steering wheel move before the wheels start to turn? I. E. : how much play at the wheel?

I've got mine adjusted down to a half inch, 3/4 inch is acceptable according to Bentley.

Dittos to edsnova & Alan Merklin. Urethane non oem rag joint failed.  Fortunately, while I was backing out of my garage. 

To Alan's post, changed rear to wide 5 rotors, had a senior moment, missed appropriate torque on stub axle nuts.  I would describe the sensation like the tires were mushy.  I knew where to look since no changes were made to the front.

These clown cars can be insidious.

@DannyP posted:

Robert, if you have the front on jackstands, how much does the steering wheel move before the wheels start to turn? I. E. : how much play at the wheel?

I've got mine adjusted down to a half inch, 3/4 inch is acceptable according to Bentley.

Now that everything is tightened up there is zero play. I may have to loosen the sector screw a tad so it’s not too tight. Lol