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Front Sway Bar

FM Former Member
My first post...Sorry about beating a dead horse, but I am still somewhat confused since the information about front sway bars is somewhat scattered..

It looks like the options are...

1. 3/4" Sway bar for "lowered" VW : (Sway-a-way part 9166)

- requires either cutting and rewelding bumper mounts OR
- mounting upside down? (maybe not, would hit ground?)

2. 3/4" Sway bar for "non-lowered" VW : (Sway-a-way part 9162)

- can be mounted correctly without cutting bumper mounts? OR
- mounted upside down without cutting bumper mounts, but clears ground by only 3" (posted by someone who measured it directly)

3. "Stock" beetle front sway bar : if I am not mistaken, this is the same as Number #2, no? (George Mautner posted that he installed this easily without cutting bumper mounts, inverted or not, I don't know)
If #3 is different than #2, who sells these? (is that a dumb question?)


I have a 1999 VS turnkey. I assume it has been lowered by Kirk via adjustable beam without dropped spindles. I really don't want to cut the bumper brackets. I would be OK with the bar being close to the ground. Thanks for your advice in advance.
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FM Former Member
My first post...Sorry about beating a dead horse, but I am still somewhat confused since the information about front sway bars is somewhat scattered..

It looks like the options are...

1. 3/4" Sway bar for "lowered" VW : (Sway-a-way part 9166)

- requires either cutting and rewelding bumper mounts OR
- mounting upside down? (maybe not, would hit ground?)

2. 3/4" Sway bar for "non-lowered" VW : (Sway-a-way part 9162)

- can be mounted correctly without cutting bumper mounts? OR
- mounted upside down without cutting bumper mounts, but clears ground by only 3" (posted by someone who measured it directly)

3. "Stock" beetle front sway bar : if I am not mistaken, this is the same as Number #2, no? (George Mautner posted that he installed this easily without cutting bumper mounts, inverted or not, I don't know)
If #3 is different than #2, who sells these? (is that a dumb question?)


I have a 1999 VS turnkey. I assume it has been lowered by Kirk via adjustable beam without dropped spindles. I really don't want to cut the bumper brackets. I would be OK with the bar being close to the ground. Thanks for your advice in advance.
E ESFinWilton
Hey Thomas, I'm feeling your pain!
After much beating around the bush while scratching my head I went with Ricardo's method (see his photos). That is, I cut and braced the bumper brackets. With so many styles of bars out there, I got tired of fooling around and "just did it". I ended up with a Bugpack 3/4" unit that I got from the local bug shop.
Good Luck!
Gordon NicholsGordon NicholsMassachusetts 1993 CMC Supporting Member
You're right - the stock VW sway bar is about 3/8" and, if you mount it upside down it still attaches nicely to the lower trailing arms, uses the same attachment clamps (although I would trash-can the stock slide-on-the-clamping-gizmo version and get new clamps from some place like CB or Kymko) and hangs low enough that you won't need to messs with the bumper mounts and it won't hit anything.

Now, 3/8" diameter doesn't sound like a lot, but it was what a stock, IRS Beetle sedan had, and that sedan weighed quite a bit more than a Speedster, and had a higher center of gravity, so many people find it to be fine for their Speedster, too.

Try it and see what you think. You can get them from salvage yards, from VS or from Mid-America Motorworks (among many other places - try looking at the ads in the back of Hot VW's magazine)
FM Former Member
Ahhh... Mr. Nichols, always with the clear answer. How do you know so much about this stuff? Thanks for your advice!

I'm going to call Kirk first thing tomorrow. I wonder why he sells them, but doesn't install them on the cars to begin with. I agree with you that 3/8" is probably enough for me, since I don't track the car nor drive it too aggressively (only having the lap belt and no roll bars scares me.
FM Former Member
I agree Ricardo. I called him yesterday to see if he has any stock sway bars, and he doesn't (kind of odd, no?). He seems to think that you can mount any sway bar upside down without cutting the bumper supports, but I don't agree with him. Maybe he was just being dismissive as he usually is on the phone.
FM Former Member
I just emailed Eric Gardner, who posted in 2004, that he was able to buy a "straight" Sway-a-way bar from JC Whitney (I just checked their website, and they do not seem to carry SAW anymore) that he was able to fit directly without cutting anything. I'm hoping to get a model / part number from him.

If you're reading this Eric, I'm sure it would be a great help to many if you could post the part number! Thanks
FM Former Member
Just got an email back from Eric. He bought the "non-lowered" Sway-a-way bar. It mounts without cutting the bumper supports, but does hang low, not enough to hit the ground, but makes it visible.

Looks like the only options are to cut the supports or to try to find a OE VW sway bar
Gordon NicholsGordon NicholsMassachusetts 1993 CMC Supporting Member
If you're looking for a stock VW front sway bar from a Salvage yard, QUICK! Call around and hopefully find a yard that has a 67 - 76 VW Sedan still in their yard and ask if you can pull the sway bar from it (should take about 15 minutes to get it off, even if rusted).

If not, ask if THEY can pull the bar, but ask to see it before they pull it to see how it is assembled to the lower trailing arms.

Why the hurry? Because salvage yards are closing daily all across the country and there aren't many left open.

If you can find one in a yard, then check the ad section in the back of Hot VW's magazine and see what's available.

Also, Mid-America VW had them a while back, too (with a choice of attachment clamps), or try CIP1 or just get one from VS.
WideRidezzzWideRidezzz
Just for my edification can somebody post a picture of their speedster with its stance and what they used to obtain it? This is a vexing subject that recurs with no real conclusion.

I just recently repaired some worn front end parts that have made a world of difference in my car's handling. When I went to this alignment expert or that tire shop I was continually told that the stock set up was more than adequate and that the float I was experiencing was merely a product of overall original design being taken beyond speeds it was designed for...

I still think lowering the car could further improve high-speed handling and have concerns about this as the car is capable of obtaining much higher than average speeds.

Even though my car is for sale I still want it to be the best it can be and that may mean front end work. My car sits as Vintage turned it out with the adjustable beam rolled to its low point.

How low can you go?

The newer post recently of that one car in Europe is pretty extreme, what's in between that and mine? give me a name and I'll scrub through the photo files?
Gordon NicholsGordon NicholsMassachusetts 1993 CMC Supporting Member
Paul:

As you lower the front end of a VW suspension, it will begin to exhibit "float" at higher speeds (over 70 mph)

To reduce or eliminate this, you should have some caster shims installed between the lower torsion tube and the mounts where it seats.

Generally one on each side is enough, although you may need more than one on one side to get the alignment correct.

gn
FM Former Member
Another point of interest in comparing an aftermarket 3/4 inch diameter anti-sway bar with a stock diameter sway bar: When the body rolls slightly in a hard turn, a "proper short arm - long arm (non-VW)" front suspension geometry would result in "camber gain". This keeps the tire upright and the tread flat on the road. VW trailing arm front suspension has NO camber gain under cornering. Therefore, my philosophy is to use the largest diameter anti-sway bar you can find, and simply eliminate all the body roll you possibly can. That will keep the tire closer to upright and the tread closer to the road.

Besides, I like the side G-forces!
I Inter911
After readidng this post I went home and on the weekend finally installed a stock bar I've had sitting around for years. I tried before but just couldn't get it to fit right.

What did the trick was installing it upside down (thanks for that tip!) and using the stainless staps instead of the stupid VW units. Fit like a charm and in about 20 minutes or so. Upside down is not big deal either as it really only hangs about an inch lower than the lower torsion tube and since its by the wheels and not out front somewhere there will not be a problem with curbs, etc.

Thanks all..
Gordon NicholsGordon NicholsMassachusetts 1993 CMC Supporting Member
Brian:

Glad the tip worked out for you. Lots of folks have been mounting stock bars that way with good results, and you've also shown others that it's an easy upgrade (and fast, too!)

Hey! Come to think of it, how long will you be up there near DeBeers new mines?? I thought you mentioned a long while back that you might be heading down closer to Toronto or something??
I Inter911
Yes, was hoping to move down there this year but likely next year now. Just too much stuff to do. You live in one place for 27 years and its amazing the crap you gather.

I'm not sure that DeBeers is up and running yet although I think its this year. The two or three other diamond mines are going good though. Lucky for me they've driven up house prices so its a good time to sell.

Missed out on the action in Saskatchewan though. I think the diamond mine going in there is supposedly the largest in the world and becuase its not remote their cost per carat is way down there. Housing is just going crazy in that province. A friend sold his house in Saskatoon last month and the offer he accepted was $50,000 more than his asking. Go figure?
FM Former Member
OK, final question for you experts... the seller from TheSamba.com is not replying, so....

I found a OEM VW stock sway bar on CIP. Not a lot of people carry this it seems (I checked around) It's only $45. BY THE WAY, THEY ARE HAVING A 10% OFF SALE WHICH EXPIRES 7/31 IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED. JUST PUT IN CODE "SUMM07" WHEN YOU CHECK OUT. Comes with rubber bushings. Clamps are separate.

I am inclined to buy the stainless clamps, keep rubber bushings, and buy stock bar, all to reduce ride harshness. Or... should I buy the urethane bushings... or should I just get the 3/4" bugpack bar with urethane and all...

Does the 3/4" bar make the ride unacceptably stiff? Urethane bushings? (I guess that's open to interpretation though...)

Thanks for all of your advice. I will definitely post part numbers and pictures if successful
FM Former Member
For a pan based car I don't think you can get a "modern" peachy ride. Also for Speedsters you need to lower the car a bit and with beam adjusters the ride will be stiffer. Check prices; if the Bugpack 3/4" unit is around the same price as a stocker go for it and the urethane bushings; they won't squeak if you use the supplied grease that comes with them.
Gordon NicholsGordon NicholsMassachusetts 1993 CMC Supporting Member
On the other hand, the Urethane bushings will feel harsher than the rubber ones (and I would never re-use older rubber bushings).
How much harsher is a very subjective topic. I don't think they're all that bad, and actually think the rubber bushings are a bit on the mushy side. I'm running Urethane bushings, greased them up pretty good when I installed them and haven't touched them since (4+ years now). No runs, no squeaks, no errors......

A 3/4" thick bar will definitely ride harder than a 3/8" thick one, so then I would ask the question: "Do you ever plan to autocross or race your car?" If not, then go for the 3/8" one and you'll be happy.

Get the stainless clamps, too. I checked out the CIP1 stock bar, and it should work just fine for you.

gn
D dvfrancaccio
Thomas,

Just to chime in with some reinforcement, i tried getting a 3/4" bar to fit and had not luck what-so-ever. Not as thrifty (or daring) as Ricardo, I took up Gordon's more than generous offer for a stock bar he had laying around. The install was easy; it hangs down about an inch; and it rides fine. I don't exactly know what impact it has becasue I installed it at the same time as the camber compensator. Collectively, the ride is....safer.

For what it's worth, i recently installed the drop spindles on the car as well. i really don't notice any difference in the ride, other than it won't bottom out since i now have it set at it's highest setting.
FM Former Member
hmmm - i had no idea that the bar could be installed upside down. i ordered new bushings / clamps and went to install it only to have the bumper mount in the way. So on the shelf it went and picked up the next item on "the list".

Thanks for the tip! I will install it tonight. :)
I Inter911
Paul, I finally took my car out for a short ride on Sat and found a problem. On tight turns such as parking my wheels are rubbing on the brackets that hold on the sway bar. Could be that they are 7 inch rims and 205/55 tires. I think I can loosen the clamps and rotate them a bit to help this problem but something keep in mind when you instal your bar. Check wheel clearances before buttoning everything up and letting down the car.

Brian
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