Front Sway Bar Installed Correctly?

I installed a front sway bar (9600 3/4") on my VS. I like how it handles but the sway bar now only gives me 3" of clearance and that is a real killer!

Here is a picture, did we install it right?

I think its in upside down..... Sorry.

Leon is correct! Plus you'll have to modify the bumper brackets per photo. I found out the mod was req'd the hardway - see before mod "oops" photo.

p.s. be sure to add a rear one too!

I
Cole,
I think the sway bar is installed correctly. I also think you installed the WRONG sway bar.
They make that swaybar in two versions. One version is for a LOWERED beam.
The other model is for a stock front beam.
It looks like the one you have isntalled is for a stock beam.

The lowered beam version is bent up to accomodate the new angle of the arms to which it is attached.

Look at the difference between your swaybar and the photos of the bar in Wolfgangs reply to your first post... See the difference?

Greg

Cole - here's another pic of the (upside-down) sway bar on my VS. It shows the bumper bracket mod Wolfgang mentioned. Hope this visual helps.

Wouldn't the sway bar also function better if there were two pivot braces fastened to either end, to give the sway bar a pivot point?

Mike

Mike.... The action is supposed to imitate a torsion spring, while allowing for suspension movement in various planes.... The addition of additional bushings / pivot points on the bar limits its ability to conform to the smaller deviations and will increase the apparent spring tension of the bar.... ( This assumes you add them to the section running across the front of the car. ) This can be desirable in a track car, but I don't think it advisable for the street...

My .02....

Mike, the mounting bushings you are talking about are not needed on a VW front torsion beam setup because the arms of the sway bar are essentially rigidly fixed to the trailing arms. Because the arms of the sway bar are forced to rotate in the same way the trailing arms rotate, the sway bar is still twisted like normal and functions correctly.

If you add mounting bushings to the center section like you see on other sway bars, it will just cause the sway bar to bind up. (Two parts that are rigidly fixed together cannot rotate on two parallel axis at the same time.) Of course if you did add the extra mounts, due to bushing deflection, instead of the suspension seizing up solid it will feel like the swaybar stiffness has increased dramatically. But it's the absolutely worst way to get a stiffer swaybar.

On other cars, the mounting for a sway bar has the end of the sway bar arms attached to the suspension via jointed links. This allows the sway bar ends to move (relatively) freely in relation to the suspension. But because the ends can move freely, you have to hold the center of the bar in place with mounts. If you don't you can't twist the bar to make it work.

Here's the EMPY installation sheet. The guys are right--you have it upside down.

My car is a VS and this sway bar weent on with zero mods.

I suggest a camber compensator at the rear rather than another sway bar. That's my combo and my car drives like it's on rails.

Good luck with it!

Jack,,
I just ordered my CC,, but I don't think I will get it installed until spring. I got the standard EMPI modern version. Which CC do you have ?? Was your installation straight forward, or did you shim the urethane pads at all (assumes you have the empi CC)?? Was your ride height and/or stiffness affected at all ?? At rest,, is your camber essentially neutral, or a bit negative ??
Cheers, Alan

Alan---I'll attach the flyeer for my CC. It's from C. B. Performance
--they claim it's stronger than the EMPI but who knows? Best $54.95 I ever spent too. Installation was easy peasy with no issues. There aren't any urethane shims. It fit perfectly and took maybe 15 minutes.

The change in the ride is noticeable with no slop in the back end---just straight and true tracking.

I believe that the camber is neutral---tires just straight with no leaning either way---just straght.

It started out installed on a Type I then switched to a Type IV and it fits both equaly well.

There is a You Tube video somewhere that shows VW Bugs racing around a track. There is one spot on the track that was a shwrp left turn
and oveer half the cars going around that curve flipped over? Why? The combination of a left turn and a left rear wheel that had the top leaning way outside and the contact patch way inside. Those cars just HAD to roll.

I wouldn't think of driving a pan based car without a Camber Compensator.

Maybe someone will post a link to that race----damned scary!

Good luck with yours! In the spring let us know how it works out.

Jack,,
In researching camber compensators, and how to best apply them, I found they had a bit of a puzzling history. But of course,, everyone agreed that they were effective,, and a must for most swingaxles. EMPI seems to developed and marketed the loop style (that you have), and marketed it to the Porsche and VW markets. Then they stopped making that type, and CB began producing it with a 50% stronger spring. EMPI is now producing the pad style (sometimes described as the SwayAway design),, and that is what I have ordered. They appear to work differently,, but both achieve satisfactory results. Then I have seen hybrids too,, on race cars. Here are some photo's to ponder,, Alan

Here are few more CC photo's. The u-bolts added to the current empi design have clearance,, same as the loops on the CB design do.
Alan

For visual reference of the difference between a Camber Compensator and a Sway Bar, here is a Sway Bar installed on my VS swing-axle.

Actually Jim,,, it is an anti-sway bar !! ;-) Alan
Nice hoist,, btw,,

I stand corrected...8-)

Actually, I had been leaning corrected, but luckily I have that 'anti-sway' bar! 8-)

I usually sway more AFTER I've been to a bar.

Thanks for all the ideas and advice

I installed the front sway bar upside down per Kirk at VS. he said this would allow you to avoid cutting out the bumper brackets.

I did install the EMPI #9600, which is not the lowered version. The 9594 is the lowered version, do you think this would give me more clearance? Having only 3" is REALLY low!

Cole

Can't answer your question on the non-lowered anti sway bar, Cole. But here is a type of front anti sway bar that I always liked. I think it is available through aircooled.net. Alan

Cole--I have a Vintage and installed the 9600 anti-sway (OK?) bar
as thedirections show and it went on perfectly with no cutting.

I know musbjim did cut to get his in and he has a vs too---I Don't know why mine went in without cutting. But it did.

Anti sway bar in front plus Camber compensator in the rear makes for a great driving car.

How a sway bar fits on the front depends on the method you used to lower the front.

If you use adjusters only it rotates the outer ends of the suspension arms up resulting in a low sway bar installed in the normal orientation.

If you use drop spindles the suspension arms are at their normal angle more parallel to the ground resulting in a higher sway installed in the normal orientation.

Like Jack, I installed a 9600 bar in right side up on my car with drop spindles. When the car is on the ground the bar does not touch the bumper brackets. When the car is up on jack stands the bar does touch the bumper brackets but I am assuming the wheels won't drop down that far in normal operation.

Michael--thanks for clearing that up--I always wondered why some cars needed to cut space for the bar to work while others could just bolt it on upright like the directions without any mods.

I'll put that in my knowledge file---thanks again.

AL I HAD THE EMPI 3/4" SWAY BAR AND THEIR CC INSTALL THIS SUMMER. I GET 3 3/4" CLEARENCE ON THE SWAY BAR AND THE CC BOLTED ON NO PROBLEM. MY CAR IS STOCK 08 VINTAGE. I RACE IN AUTO CROSS AND IT MADE A WORLD OF DIFFRENCE ZERO SWAY. JACK IS RIGHT ITS LIKE THE CAR IS ON RAILROAD TRACKS. GOOD LUCK

I'm scraping the sway bar frequently! And note on bumps or RR tracks either, you see those coming and take care.

Does anyone know if the lowered sway bar would improve my clearance? I have the 9600 and a 2010 VS.

When I installed the 9600 upside down it scrapped the ground.

The bar for lowered cars would only help clearance if you installed it right side up and cut the bumper brackets.

Cole,

Have to tried flipping it over and seeing if it fits without mods as some have suggested? Just asking....

I just ordered mine for my VS and wanted to know if I was going to have problems. Kirk just needs to build the car with these installed.

Stephen

Didn't the donor cars have sway bars as stock? I always thought that was so.

From what I see, everything past 1959 had a front sway bar.

I followed Jack's instruction for my 2009 VS with 9600 swaybar. No cutting and just bolted on, speed bumps not an issue.

Cool.

OEM VW sway bars are 1/4 (or so) diameter - you'd barely know they were there.

I installed a used ,stock bar. About 1/2 or 9/16 and it fits my link pin front end like it grew there. It seemed to quiet down the front end and make it feel more solid on the road. Bug Pack , about $50 including shipping. Thanks, dr.clock.

Mine wouldn't fit flipped over, this was the only way they'd go in.

I'm probably going to have to remove them.

Cole

I'm sure some of you know this but, these bars are NOT "sway bars" but in actuality, their true name is "anti-sway bars"

Kinda in the same vein as 'shock absorbers' and not 'shocks', or 'distributor' and not 'dizzy', or etc.

The one that annoys me is "dampener". It's "damper". A dampener just makes you wet.