Greg is on vacation so I don't want to bother him, but I want imediate gratification. I've looked at posts but I'm not sure a front swaybar will clear the bumper supports. Some say it might. some say modify the bumper mounts, some say mount the swaybay upside down? Any advice out there? Gracias.
Ricardo
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I first tried installing the bar upside down and it sometimes hit things like speed bumps.
If you want to install it right side up, you will need to modify the bumper brackets. When I had my brackets modified I replaced the bar that bolts to the beam with an angle because the bar lost support at the bottom.
Here is a thread about my sway bar installation:
Thank for your reply. Do you think it possible to extend the ends of the bar by welding a few inches on? Putting the bar farther away from the cross tube?
If you are installing it right side up, extending the ends would put it closer to the bumper brackets.
Yikes
Welding on the anti-way bar will alter it torsional strength. I've seen the anti-sway bar mounted upside down where they make a nice snow plow. It isn't difficult to modify the bumper support on a FF/CMC. (I like Mike's angle iron solution as it would be stronger - but heavier).
Thanks Woolfy, from what I can gather the bar should sit in front of the bumper attachment frame. The bar for “lowered” front suspension looks a little better fit?
A thought, I was looking at the Empi front bar for super Beatles, it’s longer, curvier maybe it can be cut and bent to fit around the bumper mounts, after all your just connecting the two suspension halves. Does it matter what shape it is?
Thank you. The bars I’m looking at (Empi) are not that shape I believe they would sit in front of the bar tube below the grease nipple?
I’m looking at 3/4” Empi sway bar, front and rear eventually. The square sections that make up the bumper support on my car are separated by masonite rivited to the metal square material, using a hole saw could cut a hole in the Masonite and pass the sway bay in your photo through without modifying the square section . It would look cool.
There is more rotation to the swaybar than you think. You need to account for the bar's position at full suspension droop AND compression.
A front anti-sway bar is an absolute necessity! A fiberglass bumper is not.
A fiberglass bumper is worthless. It's only purpose is to make the Speedster look "correct". I like the look, but it is just a look. The mount is more substantial than the bumper, but still not of much value. The modified mount (shown by others) is a Rube Goldberg contraption. The Speedster I built in 1980 had this mount and I used it. It can easily be pushed from side to side and damage the bodywork in a .25mph (estimate) bump.
A few months back I built a mount for driving lights that could be easily adapted for the bumper mounts. It is anchored, horizontally, at the mid point between the two mounts to eliminate any side movement. It is a much cleaner installation than the "factory" mount.
Like.very cool
can these sway bars be bent by a metal shop. could the bar be bent to clear under the bumper supports?
@calmotion the pic with the sway bar is not my car but a file photo I use to demonstrate the sway bar relation to the modified bracket. I'm not sure what mfg sway bar is in that pic. I had an Empi 3/4 inch that did not have a rise as tall as the one pictured.
@R Thorpe as @DannyP mentioned there is quite a bit of rotation in the sway bar from when you install it with the car's wheels/tires off the ground (sway bar will be MUCH lower than bumper bracket) to when you lower the car and compress the suspension. The sway bar will rotate upwards several inches and come in contact with (and rest against) the bumper bracket. Also, I'm guessing that heating a sway bar enough to bend it would alter the torque characteristics of the bar (I'm not a metallurgist, but that would be my guess).
FWIW, if you have a swing-axle rear, I believe a sway bar will NOT be nearly as effective as a camber-compensator.
I'm sure Greg will be able to answer questions and suggest solutions when he gets back.
BTW I got the IRS rear at Greg's suggestion.
@R Thorpe posted:I'm sure Greg will be able to answer questions and suggest solutions when he gets back.
BTW I got the IRS rear at Greg's suggestion.
Excellent! 
It just seems like it would be so much easier to modify the bumper brackets than to devise some scheme to modify the sway bar that wouldn't damage it.
Michael,
You are probably correct but to me, a nubie, the bumper brackets look flimsy enough as they sit.
Standard Bar - Mounted Upside Down
Thank you, that is not as low as I was led to believe, I think "snow plough" was mentioned. I think I could live with that, off roading could be a problem. Thanks for the post.
@R Thorpe, I think the brackets are made more flimsy by modifying them and leaving the bar that attaches to the beam. That is why I replace the bar with an angle. I think my brackets are now stronger than they were before modification.
When I had my sway bar upside down the problem was aggravated by the fact I had drop spindles. I have since replaced the drop spindles with standard ones.
Cool, good to know. What is the diff between the sway bar for standard height and lowered? and which should I get?
@Michael McKelvey posted:@R Thorpe, I think the brackets are made more flimsy by modifying them and leaving the bar that attaches to the beam. That is why I replace the bar with an angle. I think my brackets are now stronger than they were before modification.
When I had my sway bar upside down the problem was aggravated by the fact I had drop spindles. I have since replaced the drop spindles with standard ones.
picture 😀
@calmotion, there is a picture in the thread I posted above.
Michael,
For some reason I cannot see your picture
@R Thorpe, did you click the link in the first thing I posted in this thread?
Michael,
I went back to your post where you include you post about installation with pictures. Is that what you mean? I ordered the sway bar from J Bugs. I will try it upside down and see if its a problem, if it is, I will modify the bumper brackets. Cheers.
Here's another version that was used on CMC models. It uses the angle iron like Mike used and a different bracket shape.
@WOLFGANG, I put the angle where the bracket attaches to the top and bottom beam tubes.
That one has it on mounting points like yours. I left the flat mounting bar and I can see that the bottom piece deforms (or could) if tighten too much.
The speedster I have on order will be a swing axle. I plan to get a camber compensator. Would I benefit from a front sway bar as well? For those of you that have installed one, does the front feel too soft without one?
I had a 3/4" diameter front anti sway bar on my Fiber fab speedster when I bought the car and it was riding up against the bumper bracket and actually holding the front of the car up to the ride height it had. I removed the bar with intention of re-installing it in an inverted position or to modify the bumper bracket. While deciding how to proceed I have been driving the Speedster for the least 3 years and have never missed having a front bar. I have a rear camber compensator and think it helps with swing axle tuck. Our cars tend to over steer more than understeer so the deletion of my front bar has made my car handle better and more neutral in balance. I have my front ride height adjusted fairly low and have Koni Classic red adjustable shocks on all four corners. I have the fronts adjusted at 50% and it is plenty stiff and I have very little body roll. If a pan based car has the suspension setup too stiff the body becomes the 5th factor in suspension tuning variables. The pan and body twists and flexes. I learned this years ago in my road racing and auto cross days. An old timer schooled me on setting up cars for improved handling. If all four corners are so stiff they barely move then the car body itself will have to flex more in hard cornering. This can also be adjusted by the addition of roll cages and other body stiffening remedies. So it is may be better to set the suspension to a stiffness level that allows enough movement to keep the body and pan from being what has to give. I hope that makes sense. If we miss the ideal suspension stiffness and allowed movement point we can wind up in a tail chasing situation in more than one way if you get my meaning.
All said try your car with and without the front bar. In my case I never missed mine and have no plans of replacing it. I have a nice balance of handling and smooth ride.
Happy Thanksgiving. I am blessed in so many ways and am grateful to God and Country for the life I have.
I totally agree about chassis flex and chasing your tail with too stiff suspension, Jimmy.
A front anti-sway bar INCREASES understeer, which is important on Speedsters.
A factory 12mm bar helps keep the front end flatter. IMHO the 3/4" bar is too much stiffness in a lighter-than-stock Beetle chassis.
In the early 70s, there was a 5/8" aftermarket bar available which was a nice compromise for street handling. That's why I built a 5/8" custom bar for my Spyder. It works great. Too bad they aren't available any more.
I concur Danny!
Just to jump in with more of the same:
It's a swing-axle car. Please don't ever forget that. Your biggest problem is not body roll, it's snap oversteer-- especially if the engine is heavier than stock (and if it's a Subaru or a T1 built on an AL case, it's heavier).
If I had a swing-axle car (and I haven't since 2002), I'd bolt on a good camber compensator, some limit-straps, or both-- and just run the stock 1/2" VW bar in the front, if I ran anything at all.
A swing-axle car is not likely to be a canyon racer (if you want that, get IRS) and a 3/4 bar will just make it ride like a log-wagon.
Danny p comment is exactly where I was going to comment. The stock sway bar works Great with a set of koni or Bilstein shocks. Remember it’s the whole package. Frt and rear working together. I found using a lowered sway bar in 5/8 works great. We have reworked many frt bumper brackets but recently on Noel’s speedster I used a early sway bar and it cleared his bumper brackets. Also keep in mine these cars are all lowered in the rear which helps in the handling.
Thanks for the info guys. Yeah, I want a swing axle more for the experience, since original speedsters didn’t have IRS. Also, living in MN, I don’t have any canyons to carve, just cornfields 😂. I plan to use it as a spirited cruiser. I will start with a camber compensator and evaluate from there.
