Front Wheel Placement

I notice it and it's my biggest issue with VS builds.

HATE IT... bothers me to no end.

So yup, you're not the only one.

Castor shims will push bottom out 1/2" - they are usually needed needed on a car lowered with beam adjusters.  Could double them up and put top and bottom with optional longer bolts.

It seems like there should be a mechanical fix by shimming or otherwise using a spacer between the front beam and the chassis, and then using associated longer mounting bolts. 

I think that the VW pans are cut to spec (to accomodate mounting points with the body) without much regard for front wheel centering.  I am glad that the rear wheels appear centered with the rear wheel fender arches so there is only one of the car to deal with.

Does anyone know whether spacing the front beam away from the chassis (say 2-3 inches)has on other mechanical elements associated with the front beam such as the steering wheel box and its connection to the steering wheel console, and the brake calipers and their connection with hard brake lines.

I realize that these are replica cars, and not real ones, but to me the front wheel setback really screams replica, perhaps warranting some ambitious individual (maybe in the VW aftermarket market) to put together a "fix-it-kit" to address this issue.

I know that Troy has made a go of the his Speedster side windows, maybe this could be another product ? 

I couldn't agree more... and it's hard to spend the kind of money we do on a car that "looks" so visibly "off." 

Then again, I think this only applies to a VW pan based replica and not the tubular chassis cars "IM, Becks, etc"  But those are $45k and the additional 20k+ just to get those 2" back isn't worth it to me 

I bet it would only cost Kirk $200 or so to make the fix before building a new car. 

For existing cars I've found some interesting fixes on TheSamba in the form of extenders.  The part itself is about $100 and can be custom made to provide the necessary reach (say 2 inches). 

It would be a two-weekend project for those who are mechanically inclined with garage space and tools, with some creative fixes for steering box-to-console and brake line issues.  But it wouldn't be too bad, that is assuming it can be done with the body on the pan.  If not, then the project takes on a whole new life. 

I think there are others on this forum who have tackled it.  If I'm able to pick up a Vintage speedster in the near future this will be my first fix, and I will post pics with a parts list.

By the way, I am looking for a used black Vintage.  I was inspired by the recently-posted pic of Steve McQueen's Speedster when he bought it back, sporting the nurf bars.  I always liked that look with 5 wides all around sporting the Speedster Carrera powder coated wheels.

The metric wheelbase dimension for mid-fifties Porsches was 2100.58mm or 82.7 inches. This should be the benchmark. Off hand I don't know the production wheelbase of the VW pan typically used in these cars; but, knowing that, it's simple math.

There might be some dimensional changes between the molded replica body and a real Porsche body due to a lack of faithfulness of the mold/tooling used to create it.

Most likely, the error is in the pan modification.

Any large shimming is not the way to go but I understand this as a work-around.

All these little differences combined can create a "stack" that results in what you are talking about. Not so good I say.

"But those are $45k and the additional 20k+ just to get those 2" back isn't worth it to me  "

Christian: For the money, you get more than two inches.  Besides, I see ads all the time that help you increase your length.

That is, if that is what you need.

A beetle's wheelbase is about 96 (96.4?)". IIrc, 11 3/4" was cut out of my pan for my older IM.

I have a pan based Vintage and long ago found this odd wheel to wheel well relationship irritating...but instead of a 'mechanical fix' (since I'm challenged in that area!) I thought in terms of a visual solution and duck tapped a cardboard extender (replicating a possible fibreglass fix) to the front of the well. A cresent tapering piece from the bottom of the well arching up to about the 10oclock position...and squinting from twenty feet away it looked very good!

There's already an unnattractive 90degree angle between the bottom of the front fender as it meets the wheel well opening. My carboard 'dummy' had a radius at this juncture to visually soften that bluntness.

Maybe next winter during the speedster's hibernation I'll put together a supply of the cloth and resin, and whatever, to make that 'visual solution ' a reality.    

The problem is also caused by lowering the front suspension with beam adjusters. As the suspension cycles, the trailing arms (and thus wheels) move in an arc. So the wheels move backwards as well as upwards when the car is lowered.

Simply putting wide shims between the frame head and beam isn't recommended because it'll be significantly weaker than stock. Better to weld in and gusset extended mounts or extend the entire frame head forward. This will affect the alignment of the steering column which needs to be repositioned and possibly lengthed. The steering box angle will change slightly so you'll need to get realigned. Both of these are necessary because the steering couple is not made to be used at an angle and will eventually destroy itself if the column/box alignment isn't correct. Brake lines may need to be relocated/extended. Front body mounts may need to be relocated.

Whelp.. looks like it's time to drop $45k on a used IM.

Or save some money and buy a Beck.  I think the tube frame renders this issue moot, although that wouldn't be the case if it was totally due to lowering the car - which I'm not sure I agree with.

I didn't say that.

Interesting.

I never thought to look if my front wheels sat evenly in the opening on my JPS.

The opening at hub level is 27". The hub center sits exactly at 13-1/2".

Come to the dark side. Eventually everyone does. 

And you can get a used IM for much less than $45,000.

I cut mine 10" all the time and they are perfectly centered, I determined that long time ago by marking a center on the wheel wells of the body and then measuring a vw center axle to center axle and substracting the difference

yeah but I wouldn't want a 1970's IM build on a VW pan.  That's just an overpriced VS IMO.

What's the cheapest one can get a used IM built on a Tubular frame these days?

28k. See Will Piersons ride. That car is a sleeper...

That's a pretty astute observation, young man. I don't agree 100%, but you're getting there.

Every single ebay listing aside, the VAST majority of California IMs were kits. They could've been built by anybody-- perhaps very, very well... perhaps not. The main advantage to an older IM is that they were likely built long enough ago that a (appropriate) "Special Construction" title with a YOM from the 70s or 80s would probably exempt the car from emissions testing most places, and would certainly qualify it for antique plates in most (sane) parts of the country. I'd pay probably 25% more for this, and for resale value.

For Vancouver-built, tube-frame IM used pricing: I've seen them go in the $30K neighborhood. Sometimes (but rarely) less, but then only on Craig's List or some other local listing. Will's car at $28K is a screamin' deal. I'd buy it, if I didn't already have two air-cooled vehicles. I'd like to anyhow, but I'm sick that way...

^^ this

Totally agree with you and one of the reasons I stuck with a VS put on a VW pan and registered as such.  Some say it's a grey area, some say it's illegal. I say it gets the job done and the easiest way for me here in CA.

I love my VS and can't wait to try fuel injection ...

Yeah, well maybe not TOTALLY in agreement with me. I'm pretty firmly in the "illegal" camp when these cars are registered as a VW, but that aside-- I think we're at least finally on the same page.

I'm really glad you like your car. I continue to believe that VS provides an enormous amount of value/dollar, especially when bought "lightly used". Obviously, I also think there's a place (in my garage, as it would turn out) for something "more".

The hobby ought to be a big enough tent for all of us.

This guy could fab up a 2" spacer!

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/cla...detail.php?id=967484

 Yea, blindfolded and one hand tied behind his back.

Doug over at http://thevolksrodshop.com/ The guy is at volksrods.com all the time, he's fair and his welds are bad-ass! He makes some nice stuff. You tell him what you need and he'll hook you up!

Jeff

These real speedsters seem to have the same problem:

I'm sure a car styling guru would say the wider gap in front of the tires make it look like its moving forward even when its parked. It also let's air that enters the horn grills out from under the car. 

Ted,

The profile photo of the dark  speedster illustrates the advantage of my black VS in camouflaging that unfortunate visual spacing gap in shadow.

'justinh' pointed out that the wheel moves in an arc (down and back in relation to the body) when lowering via beam adjustors.  Would dialing back the beam adjustment and substituting dropped spindles partially eliminate that gap? 

Not necessarily.  Those look like Rudge wheels, which only have 8 holes, so it could be the real deal.

I'm pretty sure they're both real.  The black one was Steve McQueen's speedster, now owned by Chad McQueen and on display at the Porsche exhibit at the North Carolina Museum of Art.  That photo is from their website (http://www.ncartmuseum.org/)  Those are Rudge wheels. 

The silver one was owned by John Oates of Hall and Oates.  The photo is from a Motortrend article that ran a few years ago (http://www.motortrend.com/feat...n_oates_celeb_drive/).