Fuel Injection and Electronic Ignition for VW engines - Speeduino Style

It's alive! After a day of chasing down rat-holes because I couldn't get any spark, I discovered that a setting in the fuel injection area (paired, semi-sequential, sequential) somehow was blocking the reading of the crankshaft position sensor (or something). In any event, "semi-sequential" was the correct answer and I nearly fell over when the engine immediately started up and ran nicely. I had set up the air/fuel RPM/Map table with the ratios I wanted at various engine loads and speeds and clicked on the Autotune button. It immediately began to change the fuel table cells to match to the target air/fuel. Magic! While I've got the car in the air I'm going to tweak some air conditioning condenser positioning and then it's on the road again. We're planning a "staycation" up on the side of Haleakala near the Kula Lodge. I predict some high elevation motoring!

An important fuel injection note: When the Speeduino is configured in Sequential or Semi-Sequential Injection mode, it fires the injectors in the order noted on the circuit board (1,2,3,4). Since my engine's firing order is 1,4,3,2 I had to swap the wires on the #2 and #4 injectors to get the injectors firing in sync with the engine firing. In my case, I did the swap at the 40 pin IDC connector on the Speeduino board (I'd added the extra sensors and fuel injector wiring into stubbed out harnesses a few months ago when I had the engine out). 

It's a miracle!

Most very excellent!

So, a couple questions for you, Mike.

What coil pack is that from/fitment? Is it a smart or dumb coil? Speeduino interfaces easier with smart coils, that way you don't need to buy and wire a coil driver.

You have 17 lb./hr injectors. I tried two different online calculators, and then did the math myself. I have a 172hp 2165, and come up with 28 lb./hr injectors on all 3 tries. I don't remember the rate of the ones that came with the CB throttle bodies, but I measured and they are 2 ohm injectors, so I'll swap them out for high Z or high impedance(12-17 ohm) injectors at the proper rate. Speeduino likes the high Z injectors. Looks like $50-65 each without resorting to Chinese crappy ones(8 for $50 and a seriously high failure rate)!

Can you tell I'm really spending some time pondering this? Love your success BTW, Mike.

One more big win in the planetary alignment. Ed, are you in?

@DannyP posted:

So, a couple questions for you, Mike.

What coil pack is that from/fitment? Is it a smart or dumb coil? Speeduino interfaces easier with smart coils, that way you don't need to buy and wire a coil driver.

You have 17 lb./hr injectors. I tried two different online calculators, and then did the math myself. I have a 172hp 2165, and come up with 28 lb./hr injectors on all 3 tries. I don't remember the rate of the ones that came with the CB throttle bodies, but I measured and they are 2 ohm injectors, so I'll swap them out for high Z or high impedance(12-17 ohm) injectors at the proper rate. Speeduino likes the high Z injectors. Looks like $50-65 each without resorting to Chinese crappy ones(8 for $50 and a seriously high failure rate)!

Can you tell I'm really spending some time pondering this? Love your success BTW, Mike.

Thanks, Danny. Coming from a guy with your knowledge and experience, that's high praise. I'm using a Bosch ignition coil 032 905 106 cross ref 0986221048 - fits 2000 Golf GTI 2.0L engine - uses LS/LT1 terminals. I've got 2 of them, one very cheap eBay special spare and one genuine Bosch ($68 from Amazon). They are slightly different when I measured input impedance, but they seem to fire very much the same. The Bosch one is the one on the car. It is a smart coil and triggers directly off of the Speeduino board outputs without anything special. It is a wasted spark coil so it has two channels, and fires two spark plugs every time it fires. I wouldn't say it's the Porsche of ignition coils, but it's well known in the aftermarket ECU builder community and has been bench tested up to 24,000 rpm by James Cortina, one of the Megasquirt luminaries. 

I think your injector size estimates are very reasonable for your horsepower. If I were doing it again, I'd still get the VW Speed Shop ITBs, but I'd spring for the mini-injectors rather than sourcing the full size Accels I picked up off of eBay because of the tight space in the engine bay. I also totally agree with you on getting quality injectors. 

Come on in, the water's fine!

Here are the results from the first test drive with new fuel injection system installed. I drove for about 45 minutes. It ran smoothly from startup all the way through full temp. Right out of the box without autotuning it was a major improvement over my best efforts using the Kadrons. 

After it was warmed up, I switched on the autotune setting on Tunerstudio, which was running on my laptop and connecting to the Speeduino via Bluetooth. I set the autotune to be aggressive in changing the VE table cells (volumetric efficiency, the table that dictates how much fuel to squirt). Autotune looks at the AFR reported by the wideband and compares it to the AFR target table (RPM on the x-axis and MAP on the y-axis). It adjusts the VE table cells on the fly and send the new setting to the Speeduino. I went fast, slow, lugged the engine a little, downshifted, partial throttled, etc trying to hit the important engine speed and load conditions you'd normally encounter. It made lots of changes and the car runs great. I turned off autotune and finalized the VE table (and made a copy!!!). I had been logging the Tunerstudio sensor outputs and when I got home I took a look at the acceleration enrichment. It looks like the default configuration is just a little bit conservative (I could see spikes in the AFR immediately after giving it throttle) so tomorrow I'll increase the sensitivity to throttle events and smooth that part out. Even though I could see it in the logs, it was not particularly noticeable while driving.

Phew, it was a very good day and I have to say the results exceeded my expectations. I'll share settings to anyone who wants them. More as I get more road time!

Cheers!

Mike

Outstanding!

This is alchemy. Pure gold. Very, very cool, @Michael Pickett.

Congratulations on your success. I'm sure my mind will explode if I ever get to the point of programming! The Autotune feature has really got me, it simplifies things so much, and makes it accessible. And with less head-scratching and wrench-throwing!

Shortly after I posted, I found that coil. I also found the pigtail/plug for that coil. And I can use the injectors I have, if I run 25 watt 7.5 ohm resistors in series to each injector. $0.89 each at Newark Electronics! This limits the current running through the Speeduino while using the low-Z injectors.

My existing coilpack is Ford dumb coil to work with Megajolt, mounted over the bellhousing and using Ford Escort wires. I'll change the coil side ends, make a new mount and that's that. 

I'm very lucky in the spacing/packaging arena. My engine has CB Space-saver intake manifolds, so the carbs/throttle bodies are reversed. Fuel rails, injectors, and idle air-bleeds on the inside. I've got a 911 shroud so that's not in the way either. Final bonus: fully-opening clamshell instead of Speedster claustrophobic compartment.

I'm still looking at about a $300 investment, plus the coil and some wirework to build a new EFI harness. I've got a spare 4 wire harness(flat tow lights) running up to the fuel tank that I can use for fuel pump power. All the rest of the wires are short, ECU is going behind passenger seat. Really, the only thing I need to run up front is the fuel return line. 

Hmmmmmmm. I can do this.

Mike:  I have no idea what the hell you are talking about, but it sounds as if something you have done has turned out well...and Ed and Stan, who do seem to understand, think so too.  

Well done, whatever it is you are saying...

I watched as my son and his tuner friends installed after market ECUs and set up their basic maps to get things running, then turned on the “autotune” feature and it was like magic watching the engine learn and take care of itself.   That is a ridiculously cool feature.

You’re like one of the earliest explorers braving discoveries of new worlds and new things. You’re in uncharted territories here Mr. Pickett. Godspeed to you sir. 

I agree.  And let me be the first to say that I am VERY impressed with the speed at which you made the decision to change and then pulled it off in under a month to a running example.  I realize that you had some prior experience Doing something similar with your 911, but still....

Very impressive work and something that can be duplicated by others for a reasonable amount of money.  Any chance we could get a partslist and sources for the major stuff?

Well done, Mike!

@Gordon Nichols posted:

Any chance we could get a partslist and sources for the major stuff?

Well done, Mike!

You guys are too kind. Compared to what others do (Ed, for example), I'm a member of Stan's orangutan club. I'll pull together a parts list and sources post with comments. 

Dude my FI experience consists of pulling out a Subaru engine and harness from a station wagon, paying Bob Sheils to make the wires the right length and then plugging them back in, mostly while on the phone to him because I kept screwing it up. 

@edsnova posted:

Dude my FI experience consists of pulling out a Subaru engine and harness from a station wagon, paying Bob Sheils to make the wires the right length and then plugging them back in, mostly while on the phone to him because I kept screwing it up. 

I was referring to your general level of professionalism, creative fabrication and vision. We are not worthy :-)

"Station Wagon"  --  So write-eth "Ed the Spyder Guy"

"Station Wagon"???????

A flash from the past there, Ed.  I think the last 'Murican "Station Wagon" disappeared in 1973 or so, along with the demise of "stations", and those delightful, but very heavy, "Station Carts" with their steel-rimmed wheels, their beautifully worn and patina-ed Maple stays and deep green paint.  

But then, you could still drive your 1970 Caprise "Estate Wagon" over to Penn Station in Baltimore to collect relatives from their trips to their winter homes in Florida.  You might want to get a chauffeur outfit like Stan has, too.

@Gordon Nichols posted:

"Station Wagon"  --  So write-eth "Ed the Spyder Guy"

"Station Wagon"???????

A flash from the past there, Ed.  I think the last 'Murican "Station Wagon" disappeared in 1973 or so

You wouldn't even let your chauffeur drive this:

2020 Dodge Charger Hellcat Widebody Wagon

This is just an idea of what could have been; I think they stopped making them in 2008

@WNGD posted:

You wouldn't even let your chauffeur drive this:

2020 Dodge Charger Hellcat Widebody Wagon

This is just an idea of what could have been; I think they stopped making them in 2008

Did somebody call?

I believe that car and I were made for each other.

"Hortense, you must come at once and see. That Galat boy has acquired a shooting brake with more exhaust pipes than the Westminster church organ."

Michael,

I'm super impressed with your packaging, the wiring runs, sensor locations, and the way that 40 pin collector looks.  This is not the first time someone has let you out of the house with a soldering iron.  Nicely done, sir.

Wow, Mike, where can I get one of these autotune kits for my Webers?

@Sacto Mitch posted:

 

Wow, Mike, where can I get one of these autotune kits for my Webers?

 

Yeah. Fly me out and I'll do it. Feed me(umm beer gives me amazing tuning abilities!) and give me a place to sleep. That's about as close to auto-tune as you can get with carbies.

You’ll also need a length of decent rope with which to tie Danny to the rear of the car so he can “Auto-Tune” while you’re driving around ‘normally’.  Maybe two ropes if you plan on doing some heavy cornering.

Naah. I've got a portable wideband O2 display with a cigarette lighter plug.

https://www.wide-band.com/product-p/wb_d2n.htm

It happens to be the cheapest complete setup on the market at $145 including shipping. It even comes with a bung to weld into your exhaust. I keep it in my tuneup box, it's that small, along with tach/dwell, timing light, fuel pressure/vacuum gauge, and compression tester. And some feeler gauges for those guys with aluminum pushrods.

SO to get back onto the actual topic here, for anyone who is getting into fuel injection, you'll need a wideband controller and O2 sensor to interface with the ECU.

I just ordered the controller only as I happen to have an extra Bosch LSU 4.2 O2 sensor. Speeduino does not have a built-in wideband controller(not many ECUs do, at least the low-cost ones). You don't even need the gauge, as the AFR gets reported to the ECU which reports it to the Tuner Studio software or MS droid on your phone.

It's somewhere between $25 and $50 depending how you get the controller. The next cheapest unit is $75 from 14point7.com. 

The Bosch sensor is $100 by itself if anyone here besides me and Stan is serious about this EFI stuff. So $145 for the whole shebang is a SMOKING deal.

@Michael Pickett   How are you making out with the storm, Mike?

Did it mostly blow itself out before landfall?

It's over us right now. It's still a category 1 hurricane, but so far it's on the other side of the island (and mountain) from us. We're just getting some rain and a few gusts of wind. It should move past pretty quickly and head towards the north shore of Oahu. We will probably get more of the rain and wind after it gets totally clear of Haleakala, but I'm thinking we'll be lucky. I suspect the north and east sides of Maui may have a good bit more damage. Thanks for asking!

Mike, if you do an autotune session just as the eye passes over, you might save yourself a run up the mountain.

Just trying to be helpful here.

Success! We're taking a staycation upcountry in Kula and decided to take a trip to the top of Haleakala. No one would ride with me (see, I'm surrounded by smart people). The car easily made it to the summit, although it wasn't always exactly where I wanted on the AFR map. Turn out that the main engine load algorithm I configured was the manifold pressure (MAP). Turns out that near the summit, the pressure had dropped by 20 points and I was in uncharted (untuned) parts of the fuel map. It made it just fine, but I had to do a little adjustment to the areas of the map that were heretofore just theoretically important. After doing more research, I'd have been better off configuring using the throttle position sensor (TPS or the Alpha-N algorithm) as the indicator of engine load. This seems to be the recommendation for ITBs anyway so I'll get that reconfigured soon and give it a try. 

Road to the summit. Science City on right

Cloud layer 4000 ft below

Summit parking lot

Crater of the largest dormant volcano in the world

Some people come up here to work every day (night). The big scope tracks every object in earth orbit for the Air Force.

Huzzah!

That is really cool, Mike! Nice trip!

Alpha-N instead of MAP, got it.

Good to see your soldering tech is wearing her "Wellys".  

You can't be too prepared when traveling with Mike Pickett!

Good news on the EFI, too.  Getting the maps set sounds like a lot more fun than having some  Druid Carb guy throw chicken bones around and burn incense to arrive at a "tuned" carb.

My tuner son totally understands EFI and multi-function mapping, but hesitates to open up a carb for fear that the "Magic" will escape.

Your car is absolutely beautiful Mike. You did a great job building it and even though I have no clue what you're talking about now it sounds like you do and that's all that matters. It isn't the destination, it's the journey.

@Stan Galat, here's a great comparison of actual outputs of a variety of common coil on plug coils. Interesting methodology and a set of pros and cons for each.

https://youtu.be/4d3nrBZjYKA

Coil on plug on a type1? Interesting concept.  I'd like to see how that's implemented.

I'll be very happy with semi sequential fuel(2 cylinders spray together) and wasted spark.

@DannyP posted:

That is really cool, Mike! Nice trip!

Alpha-N instead of MAP, got it.

One additional tweak for those of us who change altitude frequently, under general settings, you can get access to a barometric curve map. As far as I know, speedy only records the barometric pressure when you first power the ECU up. It bases the barometric changes to the Fuel (VE) map sample until you power down and up the ECU again. I've been tweaking that curve by measuring the idle air:fuel ratios at various altitudes and adjusting the baro curve until it's around 13.8 AFR. I've got it corrected from sea level up to 3500 ft. Maybe on this trip I'll head up to 10,000 feet one more time to see how well the correction algorithm works. It strikes me that except for the fact that you have to periodically turn the engine on and off to resample the baro pressure, it makes it easy to adjust the Fuel map.

More discoveries later. I'm two Voodoo Rangers into my afternoon by the swimming pool and any insights I have from now on are probably spurious (unlike all of my other insights on this thread).

I'll leave you with a picture of my assistant wearing my driving cap in front of Oprah's house a few miles from here. Nice place to go for a peaceful walk.

Mike, when I grow up, I wanna' be you.

@DannyP posted:

Coil on plug on a type1? Interesting concept.  I'd like to see how that's implemented.

I'll be very happy with semi sequential fuel(2 cylinders spray together) and wasted spark.

Yeah, but, Stan Galat. I'm extremely happy with semi-sequential and wasted spark and can see no reason that I need to complicate matters with that cam-sensor non-sense :-)

@Stan Galat posted:

Mike, when I grow up, I wanna' be you.

Incompatible goals, I really never grew up and don't see any reason to change. I'd be honored to have you as an un-indicted co-conspirator, though.

@Michael Pickett posted:

Incompatible goals, I really never grew up and don't see any reason to change. I'd be honored to have you as an un-indicted co-conspirator, though.

I have insomnia more days than not. I run on a healthy diet of espresso and diet Dr. Pepper. I like supermarket roasted chicken.

I'll be in your garage by 8-ish.

@Stan Galat posted:

I have insomnia more days than not. I run on a healthy diet of espresso and diet Dr. Pepper. I like supermarket roasted chicken.

I'll be in your garage by 8-ish.

Deal. I drink at least 8-10 shots of espresso daily, so I think it'll work.