Fuel pump not working

Do you know what kind of a fuel pump - vib-ra-tor (Facet/Empi) or Rotary (Carter)?

Years ago I had an MGC (Lucas Rotary) - its fuel pump would act up and I'd tap the pump and it would work again for months.  I'd try tapping pump and filter a few times and see if you can make it home to investigate.  It could also be a bad ground to the pump.

I don’t know what type or make it is.  I was with four other members when it happened (messing up our planned drive).  We tried tapping it but it was hard to reach in the parking lot.  We did tap it just not sure how effective.  Also hard to trace and see electrical connections   It is at the shop now, the owner is in today but to work on one car, so it won’t see a left until Monday at the earliest.  I will plan to be here when it is lifted.  Voltage verification first, then …

In hind site, there have been just a few occasions recently where trying to restart the car soon after a drive, the starter was running but it wouldn’t start   Similar to how it sounded with no fuel running.  After a bit I would try again and it would start.   I did not notice at the time if I could hear the fuel pump, but it clearly is t running now.

Jon,

The pump is AIRTEX 8016S we have now switched to Edelbrock part #17303 most auto parts stores have them...make sure you get that number as it has the correct output pressure.

Greg

Thanks Greg.  

@Jon C  bogus !....it's always sumthin'...."murphy's law" is always lurking.....VW's are still mainly "nutz & bolts" and a few wires....which sadly wires were not my strong suit......most likely a non fatal issue hopefully

I replaced the Facet in my Spyder with one of those Edelbrock pumps. I like it a lot. I mounted it to the bulkhead in front of the passenger footwell with some shock mounts, instead if zip-tying it to my beam like the Facet was. It’s probably a little nosier there, resonating on the bulkhead, but I like the old-timey feel of hearing the fuel pump working before I push the starter button.

Clearly 356 drivers are just good people.  

A group of five of us met this morning for what was supposed to be a planed drive on canyon roads to the beach and back.  After a coffee and and some chat, we were ready to head out but my car would not start.

After it became clear the problem seemed to be associated with the fuel pump, it also became clear I would not be able to make the repair in the parking lot 10 miles from my home.  So I called Hagerty for a tow.  Perhaps in part because a flatbed tow was the only option, my wait time was estimated to be 90 minutes to two hours.

I urged the guys to enjoy their drive, I’d be fine.  But they stayed.  We talked some more, eventually ducking into the grocery store for a deli sandwich.  

When the tow truck arrived, they helped push my car in position for the tow truck ramp.  They finally left (for home at this point) once my car was secured and ready to roll.

Yep, good people.  The day was far from lost, in fact it’s been a very nice day.

The Plastic Clown Car Owners' creed: Leave no man behind.

Who were the other guys Jon?

Brian @BETTYLU356Speedster in the Ivory VMC wearing a striped shirt.  Brian is 6’3” and has a lowered seat pan - before I ordered my car he agreed to meet me so I could try out his car.  That convinced me to drop my pans as well.

Tony D @Colorjockey in the silver VS (HG) between the black and ivory cars.  Tony is an organizer of Countyline Cars and Coffee which is local and quite popular  

Dave @Techdave in the black VMC wearing jeans.  Dave is the guy who kept a sense of joy and bought his speedster after (likely) losing his deposit from VS Arizona.

Tony B (not a forum member … yet) with a silver VS (?)  between my silver VMC in the foreground and the black speedster, in the red t-shirt.  Tony bought his a month ago on BAT, coincidentally from someone who lives just two blocks away from him  

Our small, new driving group is just forming.  We are trying out a monthly meet/drive/ parking lot repair adventure near the end of each month.   This was our second gathering.  Missing today was Jim @jncspyder with his black JPS coupe, @SlikkNikk with his Autatrium green VS? Speedster, @ford356outlaw with his silver 550, and Eric with his red speedster.  There is probably 40 miles between the furthest two of our group and we meet kind of sort of in the middle.  

Anyone else near the 101 corridor near the Ventura/LA county line is welcome to join us - PM me!

Drifting my own thread here, one thing I carried today was an old beach towel.  I laid it down on the oil stained parking lot pavement so I had something clean to lay on while poking and prodding under my car.  My car seat thanked me later.  Add that to your packing list.

It's not just Plastic Clown Car Owners that won't leave a comrade behind.  When I was still sorting the Beck Coupe out a bunch of us decided to take a cruise during the Christmas/New Year's break and head south to a brewery we knew about 70 miles down the coast.  About 50 miles from home, whilst enthusiastically passing one of the other cars, mine just shut off completely.  I was in the left lane with traffic in the right and couldn't get over, but there was a wide center lane that I could coast to a stop in.   Riding with me was a retired Marine buddy of mine, and another was following me.  While the others went on their merry way (not sure they knew what happened) my two Marine guardians stayed with me for 2 hours waiting for the flatbed.  They wouldn't leave me behind even though it was uncomfortably warm and muggy for December and we had 18-wheelers passing us on both sides, not to mention a much of (probably carnivorous) chickens eyeing us from the roadside.  Of course I still hear the stories about it to this day (hey, they're Marines after all), but I was grateful for their company.

Moral: Car people are the best!

Epilogue: It was a simple blown fuse but I had no spares and knew nothing about the wiring at that time.  Didn't even know where the fuse box was.

@Jon T posted:

Drifting my own thread here, one thing I carried today was an old beach towel.  I laid it down on the oil stained parking lot pavement so I had something clean to lay on while poking and prodding under my car.  My car seat thanked me later.  Add that to your packing list.

A beach towel works great or one of the smallest size moving blankets from Harbor Fright. Also consider getting a pair of coveralls to keep in the car so you can throw them on over your street clothes just in case you're wearing something nicer than normal.

I like to think of myself as being reasonably intelligent.  In my 40+ years working closely with some remarkably bright, highly skilled, talented engineers and technicians, I’ve even managed to earn the respect of a fair number of them.

But then there are days like today when I am reminded that I am not a smart man.  

Two words - kill switch.  

Yep.  After I dropped off a new replacement fuel pump to my mechanic this morning and had a conversation with him about options, after I exercised Anna and Greg by asking them a question about the need for a pressure regulator with the pump he uses in current VMC builds that is rated to produce 2 to 3.5 psi output (sorry Greg!), and all of this a few days after being the cause of a failed group drive to the beach on a warm summer SoCal morning, I get a call from my mechanic simply telling me that my kill switch had been thrown.  He reset the switch and the pump worked fine and the engine started normally.

The switch is under the dash just right of the steering column.  It’s not in my way, I can’t imagine how I managed to flip it by getting in and out of my car after arriving at our group’s meeting spot.   And why on earth did I not think to play with that switch as the number 1 item on the “check easy things first” list?  It never occurred to me is the only valid answer to that question I’m afraid.  Like I said, I am not a smart man.

I owe a group of friends a beer.  Or maybe three.

On the bright side, I now own a spare fuel pump.

Jon

It happens Jon. I, and a group of my friends, went to serve a search warrant on a bad guy's house one day. Everyone was in position and we made our "knock notice" as required per California law and we waited a "reasonable" amount of time as also required by CA law. When the time passed I gave the ram a swing and it hit that door pretty hard; the door didn't budge so I hit it again and it still didn't budge. Mind you, I've knocked down over a hundred doors in my time as a fugitive team member and I've had some tough ones but this one was really tough. I gave it a couple more hits and it still wasn't opening. One of the guys reached down and turned the door knob. What do you know? The door wasn't even locked. In my haste I forgot rule number #1, always check the door first. All I can say is, it happens.

Back in my 18 wheeler driving days I am at a diner in NYS it's 5 degrees out and hard blowing wind , met the other trucker we switched trailers in the parking lot and had a late breakfast. Came out released the air brakes and it wouldn't move. I grab the CB at yell to catch other driver leaving : Did you have  brake issues with this trailer? He swings U'turn pulls back in alongside me.   We both get out and .....then, I see it "
Emergency and Service airbrake glad handles are reversed, I switch them over and just tell the other driver.... " Just leave " :~)

That’s like calling AAA only to have to call them back and do an “Emily Latella” when you realize your moto’s kill switch was on.  

eta:  LOL Jon, I just read your post. We’ve all been there, brother. The good news? You have a spare fuel pump!

eta2: Porsche 968s are notorious for draining their batteries if you leave them for long periods with the alarm on. Consequently, I got in the habit of talking my battery out over the winter and keeping it on a battery tender.  It’s also very easy to drain the battery in a convertible by inadvertently hitting the dome light. It’s not bright enough to notice in daylight, not even inside the unit I store it.

Earlier this year we had a run of nice weather so I took it out early and drove it for about three days. I just put it away figuring I’d be back to get it in a month or so. When I did, I was cursing myself for being lazy as the battery was dead.

Pulled my tool bag out and opened the hood only to find I hadn’t been lazy after all and I had disconnected the battery and forgot about it!

@Jon T -

Work on anything long enough, and you'll make some colossal mistakes. They almost always come when you get tunnel vision and overlook the first two or three steps of your process.

I had a situation just today that made me feel like a monkey.

Supermarkets are controlled by a DDC (direct digital controls) building management system. There are one or more dedicated brains monitoring pressures and temperatures, and cycling compressors, fans, and valves off and on depending on the situation. The controllers are logic only - they don't actually switch anything "real". There are input boards and relay output boards that interface with the controller on a network. The RO (relay output) boards have small 3a switches that in turn switch bigger loads (relays and contactors, as well as solenoids, etc.). The controller tells the RO board to switch, and the relays on the RO board switch bigger loads.

Everything fails to run. There is a failsafe that allows manual control (by means of pressure switches) that will cycle compressors in the event of a controller failure (it happens). There is a manual "switchback" rocker switch that will allow a bypass of the controller to check the pressure switch settings, or do work on the controller without shutting the store down.

Sometimes the controller will "freeze" in a certain setting - everything looks right on the display, and the appropriate lights on the RO board may even be lit - but the control is locked in one position.

We had a power outage in the store again yesterday (ask me again to riff on the "new smart grid"), and today I went in to check what was non-operational. I found one of the racks in "switchback". The controller showed that the system was supposed to be out of "switchback". The rocker switch was in the right position. My initial thought was that the controller had just frozen, but everything was looking normal. I rescanned the network and power cycled the controller and rack. The problem persisted, and I began a deep dive into the multiple switches and relays on this system.

After nearly 90 minutes of running down a rabbit hole, I backed out went to the controller. 30 seconds later, the problem was fixed. The controller was "frozen" in switchback (which is a well known glitch after a power outage). It was what I'd suspected in the opening moments of the call, an idea which I'd discarded after doing a cursory check.

... but not before I'd made a call to the DDC guru and made myself look like a flopping and twitching hack. You overlooked something on a hobby car - this is how I make my living.

Everybody has those days. We get up, brush off, and head back into the mixer. 

as with a large number of life related scenarios ...."murphy's law" is always lurking...and usually occurs at the most embarrassing times...que sera

I was on a cross country run in my roadster and pulled into a gas station to gas up. After cleaning the windshield and using the restroom, I was ready to go again. I turned the key and nothing........ So I thought what might this be. Pulled the light switch on and got out to check the light. They were burning bright, so it wasn't the battery. I opened the hood to check the wires to the starter, everything was tight. Got back in the car to check the ignition switch wires. So I had to move the floor mounted gear shift lever out of the way so I could get under the dash and realized the shifter wasn't in park all the way. I pushed the shifter into park all the way forward and turned the key, it fired right up. There is a neutral safety switch attached to the shifter to prevent the car from being started while in gear. So every time I go to start the car, I make sure to push the shift lever to see that it is all the way in park before I start the car.

Another time I was in the LA area coming home from the roadster event on Father's Day. Cruising along at 65 mph on the 210 freeway and I hit a big bump in the road and the car quits running. I pull to the shoulder of the road and stop. What the hell just happened? I get out and check the lights to see it the battery may have quit and sure enough, no lights. My battery in located in the trunk so I open it up to take a look and I see that my suit case had bounced up and turn off the kill switch. I turned the switch and checked the lights, all was well. Moved the suit case the the other side of the trunk and drove home. The following week I moved the kill switch and installed straps to hold the luggage in place. Lessons learned.

Reminds me of a hot trip north toward Chico in my old 911.  Stopped off to check something, turned the key, nothing.  Scratched my head for 15 min, problem solving on the phone with my dad.  Turned the key, and worked.  The problem?  Older ground strap; hot wires don’t conduct very well.  Why I share the story, I don’t know, but there you go…

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Jon, having been through this, you're not likely to do it again, but...

An easy fix is to use a double-throw switch for the kill switch if there isn't one in there already.

Power the kill switch from a switched 12V source, like the 'ignition' or 'accessory' tab on the ignition switch (it's probably already wired like that). Then hook up an LED to the other terminal on the kill switch. The LED will only light when the ignition is on and the kill switch is off.

Better living electrically.

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“you're not likely to do it again”   Things my wife would laugh at.

Interesting idea Mitch, but I can imagine how that might turn out for me.  “Why won’t my car start, and what the heck is that little light”?