Funky...or Foolish?

Good morning Carl- I have run both 135's (23 1/4" tall) and 145's (24") on my Cal Look bug and they don't put nearly enough tire actually on the road for the car to handle or brake well. Handling will seem to be almost ok (unless you like to really push it), but braking can be absolutely scary, with discs on the front, locking up very easily in wet or loose surface situations. This is why on my bug (with 185/70's on the back) I went to type 3 rear drums, in an effort to balance the front/rear braking bias (it was much better, but not quite perfect).

I came up with a formula (rather crude and it's not exact, but it illustrates the point) to compare the actual footprint of different size tires and the 135 puts approx 1/3 less rubber on the road (17sq.") compared to a 165/80 (26 1/2sq."). The 145/80 puts down 20 1/4sq.", which is better, but still not great.

You should be looking at tires with at least equal footprint for the front of your car. For example, a 175/65 (24" tall) measures out at 25.65sq." (almost 1 1/2" more than a 155/80, which along with the 165/80 is considered a stock replacement size), a 185/60 measures at 26.5, 185/65= 28.7 and a 195/60 puts 29.9sq." on the road. The 175/60 is the same height as a 135 and puts almost the same amount of rubber on the road as a 155 (23 1/2sq."), if you're really intent on a smaller diameter tire up front (it will mess up your speedometer and odometer readings being close to 2" shorter than stock, though). These cars handle best when they are level (or close to it) so an ever so slight nose down attitude is ok, but I think that they really don't look right with the front end slammed either, so the car will need an adjustable beam so you can fine tune the front height.

Hope this helps, my friend. Al

PS- I think your car will look Bitchin' with centerlines!

And another ps- a 5 1/2" rim is too wide for a 135....                                                                                                                                 

Not that I should talk - "When I finally get the VS back on the road". How quickly you forget that cold white stuff that falls in abundance from the sky up North. A 135 is a skinny tire - it will look like you are running temp tire.  Not much meat on the ground for braking up there.

Is your new engine back in an up and running?

As Al mentioned, keep the front and rear wheels & tires the same size (or very close) for safe driving and because a raked speedster just doesn't look right.

Also, if possible try and stay with one brand & model of tire.  Mixing brands and models is never a good idea.

Here's a photo of a speedster with a front rake (Anthony is selling this car for a client).

Thanks guys,

That's exactly the practical advice I was looking for...a shinning light on factors I was unaware of

Ron, thanks for digging up that photo.

That 'rake' isn't as seductive as I imagined it would be.

Al, thanks for the time you've devoted to educating me on this amongst many, many, other technical enlightenments!!!

I've cleaned-up these aluminum Centerlines carefully maintaining that matte, brushed aluminum, finish. They should look terrific at 20'...decent at 15'...and passable at 5'

Greg, the VS will be trailered this week to a mechanic friends home workshop garage. He has all the tools, monster jack stands, and moral support I'll need to wrench the blown 2110 out and swap-in the CB 2054. I won't know until the 2110 is out if the throw out bearing retainer to the tranny is compatible...but I hope everything else goes smoothly

BTW friends...

Resorting to a pennies saving diet of rice & beans has its rewards...I came up with the extra coins this week to purchase a 'California Duster' and a Motorcycle/ATV lift...Whoope!  

l 

Benefit of that rake would be accurate identification of road kill!

Also, increasing the rake will upset your caster angle, reducing steering response and stability.  It's amazing how much difference a degree or two makes.  Ask me how I know.

You've left off an important measurement on the tires you are looking at: the aspect ratio. A tire will actually be labeled with 3 numbers: the tread width (mm), aspect ratio of the sidewall (sidewall height = tread width * aspect ratio), and diameter (inches). So for example, 185/65R15 is a 185mm wide, 15 inch diameter radial tire with a sidewall height of: 185 * 0.65 = 120.7mm

The point of all that is that if you really do want to use a shorter tire, do it with the aspect ratio first, don't sacrifice the tread width to do it. If you're starting with a 165/80R15 tire, a 165/65R15 is 2 inches shorter in diameter than that but still has the same width.

Remember though, the speedometer of these cars is usually connected to the left front wheel.  Reducing the circumference of the front wheels will introduce an error into your speedometer.

Lowered less than 5.5 will not be able to load on a trailer

Lane,

An accurate speedometer reading is actually fairly irrelevant (especially since my odometer isn't working) because my speed is whatever the traffic is doing...It's the RPM gage that I keep my eye on.

BTW

Does anyone need a really nice pair of 135 Michelin ZX tires???

I have noticed quite a few lowered cars at car shows over the years.  Many are towed, not driven, to the shows.  I have helped my buddy load and unload his a few times.  Quick and dirty way is a couple of 2 x 8's to decrease the load angle.  Better way is aluminum ramps.  Easy peasy.

Carl,

Al mentioned an adjustable front beam.  I farted around with mine and finally bought one last year and its great.  You can set it up with the 'rake' you like and also make sure you have an adequate amount of caster so the car isnt squirelly at speed and returns to center after cornering to your liking.  I think mine cost around $280 shipped up to Mass from CIP1.  Well worth the money IMHO.

Carl needs an air suspension --- and a new Special Edition GPS driven speedo!

Carl,

   What happened to the Subie engine you were going to put in your VS?

Also, what's the latest on your 912E/

Chuck

    Jeez Greg,

    I feel foolish admitting that the juvenile genes in my makeup really likes the options that air suspension offers...adjustable for the road surfaces like Mango Smoothies speedster.

    Unfortunately (maybe fortunately!) my rice&beans regimen can't possibly finance such an exotic 'hood ride'

    On an episode of Leno's Garage an Emory coupe was featured that had the wheel wells recontoured so it wasn't apparent that it had been dropped quite a bit. Fantastic profile!....I think Henry may have done something similar to Bob's build.  

    Chuck, good to hear from you

    The Ej22 SOHC is sitting on the sidelines gathering dust. It's meant to be the featured player in a grandiose fantasy co-starring a 901 5speed  and an IRS!!! There's some Kennedy adaptor stuff I still have to get, along with specific plumbing details including sources and part numbers...and of course I'm taking a lot of vitamin supplements to grow a large set of balls and wrenching confidence!!!

    Meanwhile I'm on the verge of swapping out my blown 2110 for a Pat Downs built 2054 to keep me and the VS in the game.

    I haven't put very many miles on the 912e...It needs a couple of non mechanical quirky things to attend to, like no heat and rear window electric defroster that doesn't defrost. Other than being a PITA to get into or out of I've enjoyed every one of those few miles. I've even grown fond of the pumpkin orange color!   

Sports cars look funky with a frontend rake... A rake now on '55 Chevy for instance looks great...IMO.