Gas heater

Have any of you installed a gas heater in your car? I know George has one, but that was done during the build. I am thinking of installing an Espar Airtronic 2 and was wondering who might have info that would help, to keep me from having to make all the mistakes myself.

Oh, go ahead, Ron, make all the mistakes yourself. Why should this be any different than everything else you do on your car?

Your Eastern Cousin,

Bob

PS - let me know the details of your big trip East this April.

I am asking these questions as I have never liked the trial and error method. I firmly believe in trial and success. Any tips, ideas, info that anyone has, please share.

The trip is coming, but I don't know when. I'll let you know as soon as I find out. Maybe I can arrange for you to get a ride in the sub.

So, you are bringing a sub to Ontario? Is this a demonstration or something? I'll ride in it if you fix that leaking screen door.

Bob

It's for a tourist operation in Haliburton.

Hi Ron/All,

Its not on the top of my "to do" list but I also thought about
installing a gas heater. I bought one off "samba" last week
and fiddle'd about . It works like a charm, great heat, airflow
etc.. I'm going to resell this model and hunt down the more
compact version for speedster use [at some point]. I wanted
to get my feet wet with the gas heaters so I bought this one
for practice/knowledge. They are positively the way to go[ at
least for me]. It puts out more heat, quicker and a large
weight saver.-------good luck with your efforts, bruce

Just a word of warning on those old gas heaters...they've been known to cause more than one fire. I know because I was "bench" testing one that wouldn't fire up right away. Unknown to me it was dumping gas out of the exhaust and into a drawer in my work bench. When it finally did fire up (only seconds later) guess what else fired up? I was moving fast that day!!

Lesson learned? Make sure that the fresh air intake is completely free of any and all obstructions before turning on. And that is important when installed in the car...you have to be sure that ice, snow, mud, road debris, etc will not obstruct either the intake or exhaust.

bet you won't do that again.

Hear's a question...can you keep a gas heater on for a long period of time? Lets say I go for a drive up into the mountains (top down) and it's cold. Could I run a gas heater (continuously) for 2 hours? I know that at the present time I really like having heat from my heater boxes when I do my top down, (cold outside) drives. I had a gas heater in my 1970 VW, and I really liked it...in conjunction with my heater boxes. So, what happens when you no longer have heater boxes?
Ron

they have a built in thermal switch if it were to over heat.
it will run fine for as long as you need it. in fact they can
be rigged to a timer to preheat your car on those cold
canadian mornings[i wouldn't do it but it is easily done].

The heaters have come a long way from those torpedo's that used to be in the old VW's.

The Webasto heaters even have timers and remote controls now (I expect the new Espar units have them too) and they're much smaller than the old ones. I've never seen the Webasto for sale on Ebay here but if you check Ebay Germany you'll find them. AirTop is the model that spews out hot air...ThermoTop is the model that heats coolant.

Brian

brian, those torpedoes were welll ahead of their time.
well engineered, quality, simplicity=great!

I've spent some time lately researching gas heaters, and bit the bullet today. I ordered an Espar gas heater with fuel pump and switch, the 'installation kit' which has the inlet and exhaust pipes, etc., the fuel pick-up and muffler, and also a 'Y' diverter and switch. Apparently that's the complete package with everything I will need. This is the same set-up that Henry put in George's car.

I will end up with 2 switches. One that turns the heater on and selects one of the 4 speeds/heat levels, and one to select the diverter position for defrost or heat (or both).

Cost for parts is US$1350. Not bad considering Gene Berg wanted US$800 for heater boxes, that provide great heat in summer and almost warm air in winter.

I should have the parts next week. The first step is remove the fan unit from under the dash. Then I am ready to begin the install. I will need to make a mouning bracket and exhaust pipe bracket.

They also have a remote start option that would allow me to start the heater from inside the house or office so the car will be toasty by the time I get outside. Cost=US$250! I'm passing on that one.

Ron, If you haven't and I am actually pretty sure you have, talk to Henry about the cool diverter valve he or Kevin found and used on George's car. I did not see it, but remember hearing them talk about how perfect it was.

ron, good luck with your install.-sounds great

Dale: What does the cool diverter valve do?
Ron: Who did you get the heater from?

BD

I thing that gas heaters may be the way to go. More of us are opting for big motors, which need big heater boxes to flow properly, (which are 'stupid' expensive to purhcase). A nice, clean 1 5/8" or 1 3/4" merged header with a dynomax (et al) and a gas heater may just be the ticket. Ron can be our ginea pig/test mule.
I know that my custom 1 5/8" merged exhaust system, with 1 5/8" heater boxes (and ceramic coating) cost me $1800 (Canadian), which I thought was WAY too much. It does warm up quickly and produce good heat.
Ron

I think it was to proportion the heat to the defrost or the lower heater.

The diverter goes on the outlet of the heater, and a cable goes to a control knob on the dash. With the knob you can select full defrost, or full floor heat, or a variable bit of each. I think there are about 8 knob positions.

I made a deal with the distributor here in town to buy them through my company. Henry says we get a better deal here in Canada than he can get from the distributor in the US. I probably got about the same deal Henry gets. If it works out and anyone wants one, let me know and I can get you one no problem.

An interesting thing about the heater is the installation manual indicates that no clearance is required around the unit except underneath it. This means it can be mounted under the dash without fear of lighting the car on fire. That said, the exhaust is very hot and must be routed carefully. I got an insulation 'sock' from them to put over the exhaust pipe, and will need a heat sink type arrangement for going through the fender. At this point the install looks pretty easy, but that's cuz I haven't started yet. I'm sure there will be some surprises, of course I will have Henry's experience to draw on and that will help immensely.

Thanx Ron et al, I'll have to try out the favorite file folder and save this info for future reference. Like RonO said, looks like the way to go
for heating versus expensive heater boxes.
Let us know how thye install goes.

BD

Ron,

If you don't mind me asking- what does the set-up cost in USD there in Canada? They were pretty outrageous last time I checked down here.

Stan, the price for the whole package was US$1350.00. It didn't seem that bad to me considering what I will end up with. I considered going used, but they have made some improvements to the efficiency and safety of the heaters over the years,that and I wasn't very excited about lighting the car on fire...

I'd imagine Espar has the exhaust connections down pat. Being installed
inside the cabin, you don't want carbon monoxide leaks, even though air leaks in everywhere.(at least in my car)

BD

Another benefit other than feeling like you are in Miami no matter how cold it gets outside, is you can do away with heater boxes -- get a real tuned exhaust and gain extra horsepower while running cooler head temps.

Just for a note of interest, my custom made 1 5/8" merged exhaust system, with 1 5/8" heater boxes, magnaflow muffler and ceramic coated cost about as much as Ron's gas heater. If I had it to do again, and it was a fairly easy install, I'd go with the gas heater. Eric, I don't see how I've lost any hp, and I question how large heater boxes increase head temps...unless you were referring to a big engine with the smaller 1 1/2" or 1 3/8" heater boxes.
Ron

Ron,

I am sure Jake or George will address the reality of a slight restriction in exhaust flow with even over-sized heater boxes, neither run them on their cars, and you know how picky they are.

It would be interesting to see a dyno comparison of the same engine with a quality exhaust system tested with and then without heater boxes.