gas heater???????????

Has anyone put a gas heater in an old CMC,such as the heater that is in my VW Thing,We are thinking about selling the Thing and the heater works real well in it and the speedster heater(what can I say)SUCKS.thanks for any help you guys can give me.
kenny

look down about 10 subjects under "getting warm". Work in progress.

1750-4000 BTUs of heat --- yeah man!

I bought one. Never installed it. I'm in dallas, and it is 80 degrees today.
J

I got your 80 degrees!

Pat

Even with the booster fans added to my Vs At full blast nothing notta ,Zip Its quite dishearting. . If I could figure out a good place to shoehorn one in. I luv to have one.I'd like to drive my car year round.

Wolfgang, I tried to sent you a responce to your recent emails its does.t want to go send me another while check an scan my system . also inclue a mailing address and I will do you up a video to give you a general does and don'ts on the D conversion .

Got your email and printed it.

I have also added a working web space link to my profile here.. found out Earthlink is haveing problems also it may not be the other.

I will get that stuff out as soon as it stops raining and I have some sun to vidio tape by.

The heater stuff will go out today.

And yes i did do the cali conversion Interstate Vw has the 8 used engine tin peaces you'l need. a big vw slavage yard.

I bought a heater from Greg last week. And over the weekend a friend and I got together and gave it a try

He runs a bug repair busness and told me if I ever got one just let him know
He wanted to see it I was beweldered at that time by his interest. But after this weekend I found out why.
when Got there with the heater he drug out 2 old dusty boxes of parts from 3 types of heaters. I was grinnig from ear to ear.by that time.

We had some problems here and there, some were mistakes we made. that got spooky. But the darn thing works.

I now have the task of trying to figure out were to mount itin the replica, I am a little afraid it be cause of the fire hasard. these things were known for
If I wanted to replace thing with new parts like the glow plug and the overheat switch were would I find such things for something this old?

There's a guy on SAMBA that they call the Heaterman - Ark Mirvis, 973-398-6363 in upstate NJ. He rebuilds them and sells parts -- but it isn't inexpensive. For example - A new glow plug is $46 and a blower motor is $108!. Think someone said a rebuild is about $200??? (is that labor plus parts or exchange - duh-no)

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=254178

Another source is German Supply -

http://www.germansupply.com/xcart/customer/home.php?cat=376

Thank's again Greg!!' I'll ckeck it out.
I just got done doing a search. I also found that R. Thursby in the Uk builds new heaters for boats,campers and Landrover They are Eberspachers .

Some are Diesel, benzine and I'd bet some are Gasoline. I'd have no problem hanging a small spare tank for diesel. I'd just use a autostick oil tank.

I sent them a email about upgrading mine or buying new.

Now ya talking new state of the art stuff.

Don't need to go all way to UK -- www.espar.com is right in Canada (Ontario) (and Mexico). They carry the new product line -- couple SO have them -- If I recall they are $1200 or so. They are used in RVs, boats and trucks --- and military apps (hooah!) .

Try Ebay, look for heater or West Bend under Ebay Motors.

The older auto accessory West Bend gas heaters turn up very often. They look REALLY sweet! The grill looks like the front of a miniature sprint car with accent aluminum strips and that kind of thing.

They're a simple rebuild, mostly plumbing bits and pieces, look WAY period correct and work extremely well.

PLUS, they usually go for twenty bucks!

Unfortunately the rat rod crowd is starting to catch onto them. There goes ANOTHER secret . . .

$1,200.oo is a bit steep . But replaceing my car would be worse.
But their smaller. 12"x8-1/2"x6" and have 4 temp/fan settings.

That would easly fit on the rear engine shelf. Piping could get fussy , and the wires for the switch would have to be extended, but what the heck. Thats the price for warm and toasty footsies.

Oh!
Thank You Greg and TC. I'll keep my options open.

But even though it.s costly my friends here are wanting me to make it safe,they are not at all fond of gasoline heaters. and Im not fond of the cold. sumin gotta give.

Oh!
Thank You Greg and TC. I'll keep my options open.

But even though it.s costly my friends here are wanting me to make it safe,they are not at all fond of gasoline heaters. and Im not fond of the cold. sumin gotta give.

Go to Ebay Germany and search "webasto"....there are lots of gas and diesel heaters for sale there that both pump out hot air or use a heat exchanger to heat up coolant. Its pretty easy to figure out what's being sold and you can just open up an on-line free translation service and copy and paste German text to get a rough English translation.

With the Euro down now $1,000 should buy you a brand new unit with remote and there's lots of used ones around there. Webasto Airtop is the forced air unit while Webasto Thermotop is the coolant type.

The Webasto units are also distributed in the States and Canada but start at about $1,500 last I looked. The Webasto website is pretty good with dimensions, etc and I think even an instalation guide on-line.

I had old Eber units but sold them on Ebay. Someone with an original VW may want them for originality but having had one catch on fire I don't think I'd trust an old one, rebuilt or not, in my speedster.

Brian

Well Again Im scrugging, Ark Mirvus the Heaterman hates the new heaters. and for good reasons.
The new ones have a cast aluminum combustion chamber. and a plastic case that melts easy. And now I told are having problems with the control module. So there goes the New and improved Idea.
He give very High marks on the Eberspacher BN2, and hates the BN4 Like I just got.

And now the regulator has started to leak and he does not have or sell regs or repair kits. He has A BN2 and wants $550.oo

Im concidering taking it apon myshelf to redesign this one with a gas furnish type ignigthers and a oil space heater type fuel injector. that means a nonstop spark and it only pumps fuel when the ignigther is going. it will need a thermastactic temp control to controll the fuel flow.

What the heck Its useless as it is.

The one I sold you is the BN2 --- the one he likes. The BN4 is same design only larger (almost 2x larger) and has variable heat output. There probably were more BN4 sold since they went into the Vans/Buses (ever try to heat that much space with an AC engine!) and the short lived Thing/T181. The BN2s were used only in the bugs and the T3's.

Greg that said,I think the heaterman was trying to talk me out of my heater, and pick it up cheep.

The good news is i found a new fuel regulator not more than ten minutes after I posted.

I spoke to a freind.who has a steam ginney that is a 12 volt portable and it has a k-I fired boiler with continious igniton I ask him to find the spec sheets an diagram on it

I may still add a upgrade but leave the exzisting systems intact and working.
If the combustion chamber has a constant spark that has got to be safer,

With the fuel pump tied to the overheat switch like it came kicking in and out mantaining a safe heat range it should work like factory.
I do want it to have 2 warning lights a yellow for the fan and a red for the fuel pump.
I need to find a adjusable Hi and low bymetal heatstat to control the fuel pump. makin the pump kick in and out as needed. I will replace the overheat switch with the new heatstat doing the same task but tuneable. The fan will run all the time along with the igniter. The glow plug will still go out after warm up.

I think Senmans industrial supplies has just what I want. Then I can tune the heat range better than the factory did it will kick in and out like a furnish. and the fan will still run for cool down after the heater is turned off.

The upgraged unit will still be mostly as it came factory. What do ya think? safer.

I'd leave the bn2 as designed. If you feel unsure about safety I would add:

1.carbon monoxide detectors (color coded stickers) "available at small airports"

2. heat detectors around heater in case of fire (that could be relayed to turn on a warning light and wired inline to shut down
the fule pump.

3. a dedicated fire extinguisher plumbed to spray at heater.

If you read the wiring diagrams for the bn2 they have quite a few saftety features built in already.

I'm sure whichever way you do it you'll be safe/warm.

There are a couple of Type IV's in my local junk yard, a 411 and a 412 wagon I think. They both have the gas heaters up above the transmissions with the pumps, relays and such in the engine bays. The little knobs and stuff are still on the dashboards. At least everything was this way before the snows hit.

Is there anything from those cars that anyone might need. I could scoot over there when it warms up a bit and grab it for you.

Lemme know,
TC

TC - I like the shape of the BA6 unit used in the 411/412 as it fits over the trans and could be piped into the Speedster body heat ducts easily. It is exposed so alot of them show rust (at least on outside). I've also read that they are more complicated and you need to remove alot more wiring and pieces (assume safety related) to get an operational unit. It apparently has a timer that you can set so it comes on and warms up the car (or incinerates it) before you drive off. No special trip but I could use one of the heat exchangers off a 411/412 -- I'll check but think its the passengers side for a T-4 conversion - if not made of un-obtainium (i.e. costly).

Barry - Agree on his motives! We need to rename your id to Tim "the toolman" Taylor and your motto "I can make it more better, more powerful!" You must be retired with lots of free time on your hands!

Macgyver seems to be the nic name that I keep getting stuck with at work. I do a lot electrical customizing and custom sheet metal work at home. I have choo custom Elcamino with electic everything.

but enough horn honking. I do agree the heater has alot of built in saftey .

I spoke th Mr Ark Mirvis yesterday for about 15 minutes. He stated that he doen't use a regultor and remotes the fuel pump as far from the heater as he can get it. and uses a rotary pump for a smoother flow. Anyone ever done or heard that before? It does make good sence it would create a steadyer flow. but no reg???

I intend to tinker with this all summer and run It as much as I can before it goes in any car. if I use a protronics trigger and melt one magnet into the tip of one fan blade. and letting that fire a Gm Hei single coil pack, with the protronics pickup and use a k-i heater igniter/glow plug drill and mig in a secound tread boss for it.

Well you get the idea.

T.C and Greg. If you Gentlemen have any spare heater air pipes I need 2 of the elbows that attach to the heater I have decided it will go on the rear shelf behind the engine. strat pipe of the same diamater is a valible but no elbows.

Looks like a light lunch at the junk yard for me next week. I'll poke the Type IV's for you guys.

MacGyver --- yeah that fits! Wikipedia says - MacGyver can also be used as a verb meaning to fix, repair, rig, solve, build, invent, or otherwise save the day, as MacGyver did.

I have some of that flexible aluminum hose like could be used on an exhaust vent fan or clothes dryer. With the BN4 I plan to use, I will use it as the center mould for the air distibution pipes. They bend and keep their shape (unlike the plastic dryer hoses). I was then going to cover them with fiberglass cloth/resin since the sizes at either end would be different. I was planning on ducting them into the bodies heat ducts (CMC has - not sure other makers have them but suspect so). The heater would also draw air into the other end from inside the vehicle. VS seems to have a distibution box under the dash for directing air to defrosters or to fee --- CMC doesn't have that so thinking maybe distro box from a 914 would work -- again customizing delivery air system with flex tubing and fiberglass cover. Some of the Y air distro pieces from a 411 might make job simpler. The VW 411 uses a minimal heat exchanger supplemented by the gas heater. I have a core 914 T-IV engine that eventually I'd use in the Speedster with either the 411 heat exchangers or bare headers from a VW T2 bus (shortened).

Barry, it seems there are a few different ways to regulate the fuel flow on these. Mike(fromt he other thread) had a fuel pump mounted directly to his heater and no return for fuel. Mine has a tee fitting
at the "injector" connection and routes excess fuel back to the tank.
There is more than enough fuel supplied by the stock pump. I never looked at the "injector" nozzle with it removed but from what I have read it's not more than a drip, rather than a spray.

Thank you Bruce So if I put the pump next to the fuel tank and use the smoother turbine pump like Vw used with fuel Injecion or something simular but smaller with lower presure, instead of the old pulse pump.

SO I can I do away with the regulator.

And Should I have a return line Or can I keep it simple?



T.C If you do go to the Junk yard even If you have no luck at all!!

I owe you a lunch.

AlsO if you see a 411 or 412 that had 1800 cc and a automatic see if you find out what the ring gear ratio was. ifby some miracle it still has a tranny? I want to buy it. I'll owe you more than a meal



Greg !! I made the tail pipe and the air intake pipe before I tried the heater.
I wiil wrap the exhaust with Mc master Karr's fire proof pipe covers tubes they are white and look like plaster. Im gonna use the foil backed Jute on the heater output and return pipe.

my heater is now in and mechanically working. I ran into some ducting problems so I pulled out the interior of the car and then discovered some rust issues. Did the Fred Flintstone thing welded in new steel for the floor and am now ready for insulation new carpet and to hook up the heater. I will use the heater to blow hot air in and then suck it through the console into the original IM ducting. with any luck will be out of the basement soon and back on the street warm with good defrosters in time to do some more stick shift lessons with my daughter. 11,000 btu's, ah toasty.

Nice job Mike.

Barry, What I meant to say was/is....I think the fuel flow is limited/regulated by the fuel
nozzle opening and the original pump(pressure/flow). I think changing the pump would
upset that match. My bn2 has a return line req'd. Mike's (above) didn't. Different years=
different requirements.

I'll figure it out. I have all summer to tinker with it. But it will work perfect or not go in. I was talking with Gary At Cip-1 while ordring the protronics kit yesterday.
He said that Henery at Im has been pluming PVC into the tunnels of theirs cars for a few years now ..Maybe I should reconcider the heater or combine both. Comming back from the beach saterday evening we were Ok and the top was down, out side temp was 65 .But we were going 75 mph for over 100 miles. but you don't get nothing at 55.

I forgot that I had a scanned copy of two old manuals for the BN2 heater. One is an instalation manual and the other is a trouble shooting manual.

I can send them to anyone if they let me know.

Brian

Hi Brian , I have 3 complete Bn2 manuals and installion prosedures for all 6 vw application.

brian/barry, in your manuals does it mention fuel pumps being mounted below the fuel level?

Brian, I would love to have a copy of the manuals. Email is famdoc3@optonline.net. thanks.

Can we get the manuals posted on the Library? Ebersparcher doesn't support them any longer and they actually give copies of the manuals away (check their web site www.espar.com/htm/specials/bn2bn4.htm ). If you do a google search you will find them at other sites too -- SAMBA has some posted.