Gas tanks

My CMC kit calls for cutting filler tube and rewelding it somewhere else along with welding plate over the old hole. I'm not only reluctant to weld an old gas tank (even if filled with inert argon gas or CO2) and not sure that my new weld will not result in pin hole gas leaks -- plus old tanks seem to be questionable at the lowest point near the engine feed tube. I see VW replacement tanks for around $60 (JC Whitney) that have filler in the trunk. Will these work without any conversion? Will a std VW gas cap work on them? Are there any that are larger than 10-13 gallons. Is the quality of all prtety much the same (assume made in Brazil or Mexico)? Are fuel cells available that are reasonable in price (as an alternative).

I can answer part of your inquiry...Fuel cells are way more expensive than any of the VW aftermarket offerings! Boy Howdy, to get one at or near 16-20 gallons, the size issue looms large. Then you jump on Fuel Safes website and price a fuel cell for a 356, OUCH! Bring on a pin prick in a weld any day compared to the stabbing pain the fuel cell prices will put in your wallet!

All that being said if money were no object I'd have bought that 356 unit, it was very well built and racey looking!

You can tell that fuel cells are really, really expensive, because George didn't get one put in his new car.
Ron

the older vw gas tanks already have the filler inside the trunk.
check and see if you can use one of those.

there's also one made for baja bugs called the long ranger.
it might work also and give you more range.

Call John at JPS and get a 14 Gal. that will bolt in. You will have to do a small bit of cutting on the underhood to make the filler fit. All, for around $100.

Jim, have you installed it yet? How difficult was it? Do you have carpet in your trunk? Did you have to replace it with the new tank? I'm thinking of doing the same thing. Also I have John's seats too, Did you use the rails that were in there? I didn't think the seat was low enough, so I reinstalled the rails on an 1/8" plate on the pan, it gave me another inch or so. Eddie

Jim,

Do you have the 14 gallon tank installed in your car? Would appreciate if you could post a photo of it installed.

Everyone should switch to a larger tank. When I am driving with others having a smaller tank, we always have to stop when I am stll half full of it. Same thing happened on the cobra tour I went on. Those gas gulpers were always stopping to fill up. I only needed to stop for gas twice on that 550 mile tour.

I have one of John's 14 gallon tanks in my speedster. Mine had a filler neck on the passenger side with a standard filler cap. I cut a 3 inch round hole in the hood (trunk?) inner panel and everything fit perfect, with about a quarter inch clearance to the inside of the outer panel. No problem at all. Yes, I still need a new carpet to take up the extra tank height.
The real question is what do you use for a fuel sensor? I simply rebent the wire on my stock one, but it doesn't really do the trick. Need something with more depth and anti-sloshing features. Anybody have a solution? Something you actually know that works? Thanks.

David,

You should register yourself and your car on this site. How about some photos? Where are you located?

David,

I have the larger tank in my JPS and my understanding is that John Steele put a different float in the tank. He mentioned that the tank would indicate full for a long time and it would suddenly drop to E in 50 miles. He was right! I'd give John a call and ask his advice on the float.

Bruce

Extend the float rod....you measure the depth from the top of the tank to the bottom then cut the rod length 1/2 of that distanse plus a tad ... Someone give me an exact top of tank ( float hole)to bottom distance and I can calculate the rod length.

Alan M

CIP1 has the 16 gal tanks for $70 US and 10% off this weekend till Sun midnight. Best price I've seen yet.

TXS Brian - I ordered one! 10% off everything ends midnight 29 Feb. Unfortunately they are out of the gas caps for it. $20 packing fee but FREE shipping so its a wash. 16 gal should add little extra needed weight to front end!

Sorry, I have not been on top of this thread after posting some info. Yes, the JPS Tank bolts right in and you use the original sender, just bend it some... it isn't the best way though as there is like a 1.5 gallon reserve now at 'empty. Still... I have pondered on taking a sending unit and getting it extended in length after measuring it all out. Not sure if that is a solution, or just an idea. I need to play with one to figure it out.

Someone already mentioned it... the tank filler and cap will fit under your VS/JPS hood with cutting. Install the tank and cap. Put some grease on the cap, lower the lid to let it lay on the filler cap. Lift it and you have your pattern for cutting. 3" Diameter is about right, and it isn't very deep. Piece of cake in an afternoon. Touch up paint the cut.

The VS and I assume JPS front carpet has several sections. There's a snap in and glued piece that covers the battery and runs to the base of the stock tank, Then there are sidewall and firewall pieces. Then there's the tank piece. I have cut a pattern for replacement carpet... need to get some cut and then piping sewn on and then 3M it on. One of my many "to do" things before Knotts.

Eddie, I was out of pocket this past weekend for a funeral. I will call next weekend and get the details on how you did that thing with the plate and seat rails... sounds interesting. I just put my seat in the max leg room position where it would sit on the rails and just touch the backseat vertical and back seat top... scooted the rails to max back, evened them up and marked the front holes on that JPS crossbar. Drilled and mounted the seat crossbar temporarily on the front mounts, and then mounted the rear similar to the VS mounting. Used washers to shim the seat to the tilt and height required to allow it to not rub the floor (as the Speedster style seat has that saddled shaped buldge on the bottom (at least the glass repros do). I had to play with it to find the sweet spot. Anyway, it seems ok, but I am open to another way, as what you did sounds interesting. I also considered a crossbar in back, mounted to the seat in the center and then outboard to the rails. But that would raise the back more than I have done with using the VS stocker holes in the rear as a pattern. That rear cross bar would have to be mounted to the bottom of that buldge or saddle I menetioned and it seems it would raise the rear of the seat by at least 1/2 - 3/4". As it is, my rear section is slightly lower than the front and so the edge or lip of the seat lifts my thighs just enough to have a nice angle to the pedals. I will say, at my height, this is a significant inprovement. I can roll my legs out now without the knees hitting the steering.... a nice comfy angle. And I sit deeper in the car, in the rear of the seat probably 2+ inches deeper, and an maybe 1.5 inches up front. Normal sitting (without the 356 tall guy slouch, is the top of the windshield frame is slightly above my head... I had to slouch before to get that sitting angle. My only bitch about the Speedster seats is the lower back in comparison to the stock VS cut downs. Anyway, I will call.. I'd like to hear what you did.

Anyone here... how do you best drill holes on the glass? Have I read somewhere to tape the drill spot, and drill through the tape to protect it from chipping or cracking? Ideas?

Jim

Jim, I would say generally "YOU" can't drill through glass. I would take the entire windsheild to a specialty glass shop. They have specialdiamond particle bits, water cooled drills, and systems that can drill the windsheild. The problem is tempered glass is usually drilled prior to tempering, your windsheild is already tempered which makes it a real touchy deal....Good Luck


Gclarke "The vacaville Guy"

Gary,
Either you or I misunderstood Jim's question- I think he was talking about the fiberglass he will need to cut for the gas tank.

That's it Stan. Gary, what I poorly communicated was I need to drill the mount for my right mirror. Any suggestions or precaustions? Thanks!

Jim,

Cover the area you'll be drilling w/ masking tape, be sure to use sharp bits, and most importantly, let the drill do the work (read- don't force it)
The tape gives you a good place to mark on, and will help reduce the chips on the edge of the holes.

CEH

Jim, thanks for getting back to me. I went in another direction on the seats, after I did it your way for awhile. I will be glad to call you, if you want. On the gas tank install, did you have a spare in the trunk before with the stock tank? Is there still room for a spare in the trunk now, with the big tank. The extension on the sender sounds like a good idea. I'd think it would be better to have the gauge read full for a little longer in the beginning of the full tank, and be more accurate when it gets near empty.That is if it has to be inaccurate on one end or the other. Eddie

The Brazilian VDO replica gas gauges register full for a long time then drop like a stone because the impedance in the gauge coil doesn't match the stock VW tank sender's range.

You can send your gauge and sender to North Hollywood Spoeedometer or Palo Alto Speedometer and they can match them together - you may still have to adjust the float travel afterward to get the correct readings.

I had that same trouble with my Brazilian Repro VDO gas gauge and Kirk sent me a stock sending unit for (I think) a 1969 Beetle (I had gotten the gauges from Kirk years ago). He has to bend the float arm in the reverse direction to make it read correctly, otherwise it's ass-backwards (reads empty when tank is full and vice-versa). He has a jig or something to get the bend right for correct readings, and I tweaked it just a bit to "tune it in". After that, it's reasonably , reads "full" when full, "0" when "empty" and gives me about 1+ gallon reserve. It bounces around a little when moving, but no where near as bad as Kathy's Austin Healey (with Smith gauges).

Eddie, yes my spare fits. I have it sitting where the bottom arc of the tire covers the lower section of the front carpet piece (where thesnaps for the battery are.) and the side arcs wedged to the side walls of the trunk. I have it mounted with a spin on brace to hold it in place (although it's not going anywhere LOL) and have scissors jack and a fold up lug wrench sitting under the wheel. I keep a hydraulic jack (in it's box) and a 4x4x4 block in the tub beside the battery.

Between the extra gas, the spare, two jacks, wrench and wood block plus battery I figure I have plenty of ballast up front.

Whilst we touched on tank senders, I keep coming across this gauge circuit vibrator in a catalog I have. What's this for? My guess is that it keeps the needle from wagging back and forth as the fuel sloshes in the tank. Am I right?

BD

Thanks Jim, you don't happen to have a picture of the big tank installed before the carpet is in, do ya? Eddie

My original VW had that gizmo in-line between the gas tank sender and the gauge input.......I never installed it on my Speedster, although I have it kicking around somewhere. I cooked my gauge the first time (shorted it to 12V - don't ask) so, after I paid $$ to get it fixed I was just happy to get the thing to work, let alone putting the gizmo in the line..........maybe I'll try it this Spring to see if it damps the meter movement (after I open it up to see what's inside - guess that's the old Engineer side poking through).

Gordon