Which Speedster replicas have the most authentic gauge clusters and dash configurations?
Did the dashes vary over the years?
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Which Speedster replicas have the most authentic gauge clusters and dash configurations?
Not mine! ;-0 Function over form. 
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Most replicas have the Speedo to the left due to using a short VW T1 speedo drive cable. Originals had the Speedo to the right of the center mounted tach. Easy fixm - just move and buy a longer speedo cable (many sources list the length). Diagram from Stoddard Porsche. Note the OEM Speedsters used cable driven tachs - not electronic.
Wolfgang, really like the diagram. But as far as the gauges themselves, who makes the most accurate ones - or do people just buy originals?
D: Yes, the dashes varied three times over the years. The first dash was more like a VW with a single, big gauge right in front of the driver. Porsche only made a couple of hundred of those from several body manufacturers and all with Bee-Hive tail lights. All of the following photos are from un-molested original 356s:
Here's the early Gmund dash:
They evolved to the "Pre-A" dash around 1952 which still had the Bee-Hive tail lights and a mainly two-gauge dash like this on a '55:
Tach on the left, speedo on the right, Temp in the middle top, high beam, Alt and oil pressure lights center. The directional indicator was on the end of the directional stalk. Horn button beeped the horn. No fuel gauge. Starter button above the iginition key on the dash. Yes, the right gauge appears to be lower because it is - It follows the shape of the dash eyebrow, not the shape of the bottom of the dash. Remember - These cars were all hand made.
This remained the Dash until mid-1956 when they began transitioning to the 356-A model which changed the tail lights to the teardrop style and changed the dash to a three-gauge version (among a bunch of other changes to the car) like this '58:
Multi-gauge on left (fuel, temp and idiot lights), Tach center with alt and oil pressure lights, Speedo right. With the original banjo steering wheel, the horn button beeped the horn while the horn ring flashed the headlights. Directional indicator moved to the dash (Tach). There were around 50 or so cars built as "Hy-brids" with combinations of Bee-Hive tails and 3-gauge dash or Tear Drops and 2-gauge dash as the factory used up on-hand parts inventory, but they are rare.
That's about it. I have a dimensioned drawing for the 2-gauge dash if you're interested, but not (yet) for the 3-gauge original version.
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Cary Hines at SE/Beck commissioned to have VDO build replica gauges for his use and sale. Replica gauges first came from Brazil with so-so quality - the ones now made in China are crap. Beck's gauges are a slightly different size (100 mm vs 105mm but a collar is available). The Speedo is GPS driven so place it where you want and don't worry about tire/rim size. Original ones are costly and will most likely have to be rebuilt (costly too) plus a mechanical tach will have to be converted to electronic. Using a 911 tach will result in incorrect readings too - since it is designed for a 6 cylinder engine.
Otto made the right guage lower ... bad day at work.
That's odd. Seems if you're going through the trouble to make a reproduction from VDO, you'd want to make it spot on perfect so that people who own the original could also buy it. It expands the pool of buyers of the gauge. and makes the Beck version that much more in line with the original look
It's probably some kind of licensing/patent agreement??? I don't think the face or the light lenses are exact repro's either. Many of the other reproductions are in KMP not MPH - even in US models. I think OEM tachs had red line at 5-5.5k. I'd like to see face stenciled in both KMH/MPH and temp degrees marked.
D wrote: “That's odd. Seems if you're going through the trouble to make a reproduction from VDO, you'd want to make it spot on perfect so that people who own the original could also buy it. It expands the pool of buyers of the gauge. and makes the Beck version that much more in line with the original look.”
Trust me, nobody who owns an original 356, especially an unmolested one, would ever put a reproduction gauge in their car. Neither would they put anything but the original gauges from their car back into their dash. They would get their own units rebuilt at Palo Alto or North Hollywood gauge rebuilders (or Nizonger on Long Island) and put them back in.
Well now it becomes very philosophical. If the repros look and function like the originals down to the molecular level, is that different from a broken original that was rebuilt? Because the workmen who rebuilt them didn't do it in Germany however many years ago, and the parts they rebuilt them with were made a lot later, almost certainly not by Porsche...
To me all this obsessiveness about originality *beyond the observable aesthetic and functional aspects* seems - well - stupid.
It's also a complete double-standard, because Porsche guys who rally modify their cars all the time - that sure isn't done in Germany with stock parts, but it's not deemed ruinous to their cars...
Here's a thought experiment: imagine you're the head of engineering at Porsche in the late 50s, and you're trying to find the right engine to fit to win the race. And some forward looking engineer (miraculously) comes up with the Subaru WRX engine. Is there any way on the planet you'd use the original engine that they wound up equipping the car with? The answer has to be no way, right? Because the WRX engine is simply a better engine in every conceivable way. And you talk about creating a story - the racing victory that would have easily realized would have been so immense it would have been heard around the world...
So, fast forward to the present - you're thinking of making a Subbie mod to your Porsche. Is originality for its own sake a good reason to keep it OEM, when you know that the engineers would have readily gone with the WRX design - had someone back then been brilliant enough to think of it?
There is a kind of religion going on amongst purists, I think.
Philosophical indeed. But remember: the 356 tachs were mechanical, pretty much all modern tachs are electronic.
I have two sets of replica 356 gauges I could bear to part with. One came with the Spyder I'm doing: they're 10 year old Chinese knockoffs with zero miles. NOS.
The other is Brazilian. They look a little nicer. Also NOS. DM me if you're interested.
These are what most Vintage and a lot of other Speedster replicas (and Spyders) run. They are slightly larger than the original 356 units. Something like 110mm, as I recall. I believe the originals were 100mm—maybe 105. Spyders had the speedo and multi gauge this smaller size, and the tach was 115mm.
I'm missing your point. You buy an original now $150k Speedster not to drive it daily but as an increasingly valuable rare collectible. (I honestly don't know why as they are mass produced cars - they just rust away fast). You buy a replica to drive it daily or at least every nice weekend. If you're lucky you'll what you have invested in it years down the road.
Gordon Nichols posted:D: Yes, the dashes varied three times over the years. The first dash was more like a VW with a single, big gauge right in front of the driver. Porsche only made a couple of hundred of those from several body manufacturers and all with Bee-Hive tail lights. All of the following photos are from un-molested original 356s:
Here's the early Gmund dash:
They evolved to the "Pre-A" dash around 1952 which still had the Bee-Hive tail lights and a mainly two-gauge dash like this on a '55:
Tach on the left, speedo on the right, Temp in the middle top, high beam, Alt and oil pressure lights center. The directional indicator was on the end of the directional stalk. Horn button beeped the horn. No fuel gauge. Starter button above the iginition key on the dash. Yes, the right gauge appears to be lower because it is - It follows the shape of the dash eyebrow, not the shape of the bottom of the dash. Remember - These cars were all hand made.
This remained the Dash until mid-1956 when they began transitioning to the 356-A model which changed the tail lights to the teardrop style and changed the dash to a three-gauge version (among a bunch of other changes to the car) like this '58:
Multi-gauge on left (fuel, temp and idiot lights), Tach center with alt and oil pressure lights, Speedo right. With the original banjo steering wheel, the horn button beeped the horn while the horn ring flashed the headlights. Directional indicator moved to the dash (Tach). There were around 50 or so cars built as "Hy-brids" with combinations of Bee-Hive tails and 3-gauge dash or Tear Drops and 2-gauge dash as the factory used up on-hand parts inventory, but they are rare.
That's about it. I have a dimensioned drawing for the 2-gauge dash if you're interested, but not (yet) for the 3-gauge original version.
Sure, I'd love to see the drawing.
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Where do you buy the replica gauge?
dkennemo posted:Here's a thought experiment: imagine you're the head of engineering at Porsche in the late 50s, and you're trying to find the right engine to fit to win the race. And some forward looking engineer (miraculously) comes up with the Subaru WRX engine. Is there any way on the planet you'd use the original engine that they wound up equipping the car with? The answer has to be no way, right? Because the WRX engine is simply a better engine in every conceivable way. And you talk about creating a story - the racing victory that would have easily realized would have been so immense it would have been heard around the world...
So, fast forward to the present - you're thinking of making a Subbie mod to your Porsche. Is originality for its own sake a good reason to keep it OEM, when you know that the engineers would have readily gone with the WRX design - had someone back then been brilliant enough to think of it?
There is a kind of religion going on amongst purists, I think.
The original Volkswagen (really, the forerunner of Porsche) was developed specifically as an air cooled car, to negate the need for coolant and all the associated issues. It was to be the 'people's car', simple to own and to maintain, and an air cooled engine was the solution. Water cooled was never considered.
Oh man, I LOOOOOOOVE the idea of the horn push with the ring that flashes the lights. How cool is that gadget? Does anyone have one of those on their Speedster??
The best part of this “hobby” of ours is we can configure any part of our Speedsters to suit our personal preferences. I’ve seen push button starters, left side ignition switches, and countless other variations on the dash alone not to mention the suspension and drive train!
I like the “original” look, but I also know I’m not bringing back an original vehicle to show at a Concourse level.
Form over function for me at this point but the allure of creating a true replica is still worth striving for...
TheMayoMachine posted:The best part of this “hobby” of ours is we can configure any part of our Speedsters to suit our personal preferences. I’ve seen push button starters, left side ignition switches, and countless other variations on the dash alone not to mention the suspension and drive train!
I like the “original” look, but I also know I’m not bringing back an original vehicle to show at a Concourse level.
Form over function for me at this point but the allure of creating a true replica is still worth striving for...
I think it's all part of the fun factor.
I don't believe people should slavishly follow someone else's arbitrary design decisions - these cars are, after all, meant to be personal. But a lot of those idiosyncrasies and fun gadgetry contribute to the experience.
On the other hand, I don't think anyone would ever advocate going with drum brakes rather than disc or with non-electronic ignition because that doesn't add to the driving experience at all -- it only adds to the PITA factor.
dkennemo posted:Oh man, I LOOOOOOOVE the idea of the horn push with the ring that flashes the lights. How cool is that gadget? Does anyone have one of those on their Speedster??
I have this on my car, I bought an airhorn Screaming Banshee and it is an add on to my regular hella horns and when I press the horn button I can toot the horn but IF I hold it down for more than a second the airhorn comes on and also flashes my High Beam headlights.
Look it up
Ah, I think I'd just opt for the original note, but I imagine the Screaming Banshee gets attention. (You just push the button and a sonic boom emanates from your car for miles around, collapsing any unstable structures in its wake...)
It does give you the ability to toot your normal horn anytime without the cacophony of an air horn. 
If you like it and it works well for you; you should do it!
@dkennemo It takes only once in any of the following instances to realize you need a horn much louder than the beep-beep of the original note;
1. You are sitting in traffic at a signal, when suddenly you see the back-up lights of the SUV in front of you come on . The SUV driver begins to back up to pull around the vehicle in front of them and obviously can't see you behind them or never hears the puny beeping of your horn. CRUNCH!!! 
2. You are in a parking lot waiting for the car a few spaces ahead to pull out. Just two feet from your passenger side door, a parked car is put in reverse and the back-up lights come on. It doesn't matter what vehicle size, they will never see you or hear the puny beeping of the horn in time to stop from crunching your car. 
3. You are driving in traffic and just in the process of speeding up to get out of the blind spot of the car on either side of you. Either driver begins to pull into your lane and will never hear the puny beep-beep of your horn because they are (A) texting (B) punching in coordinates on their GPS (C) applying make-up or shaving (D) a maroon. 
FWIW, I kept the beep-beep horn activated by the steering wheel horn button for those friendly "Hi, how are ya" beeps. For the instances noted above, I wired an air horn with separate horn button (heavy gauge wired through a relay) just under the dash. 
@MusbJim jim horn is awesome. You should check out his video 😄👍
For years I have contemplated installing a train engine horn on a car. Maybe now is the time ? 🤙🏼
I'll just leave this here:
I trashed my “beep-beep” VW horns years ago for a set of Alpina Air Horns and never looked back. Do I need a soft-hearted PC horn in my Speedster? Absolutely not. I want the loudest, brashest, most in-your-face horn I can find. The Alpina fits the bill.
dkennemo posted:Oh man, I LOOOOOOOVE the idea of the horn push with the ring that flashes the lights. How cool is that gadget? Does anyone have one of those on their Speedster??
IaM-Ray posted:dkennemo posted:Oh man, I LOOOOOOOVE the idea of the horn push with the ring that flashes the lights. How cool is that gadget? Does anyone have one of those on their Speedster??
I have this on my car, I bought an airhorn Screaming Banshee and it is an add on to my regular hella horns and when I press the horn button I can toot the horn but IF I hold it down for more than a second the airhorn comes on and also flashes my High Beam headlights.
Look it up
Was something lost in translation here? I thought @dkennemo was talking about the horn ring/light flasher found on the coupes.
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TheMayoMachine posted:For years I have contemplated installing a train engine horn on a car. Maybe now is the time ? 🤙🏼
C'mon Ed, you know that's illegal!!
"Was something lost in translation here? I thought @dkennemo was talking about the horn ring/light flasher found on the coupes."
Was this really an option? I was not aware of it but in any case, I have a dimmer switch on my signal light arm end... it dips the high beams at night but during the day it has flash to pass activity.
But getting back to my original comment if you want the "Horn ring/ light flasher" you can get that feature on any car with a Screaming Banshee install.
It is very small, keeps your existing horns, you only need ONE BUTTON El Guapo, and
here is the Link Enjoy the site.
You can buy a set of big truck air horns at a Truck Stop for under $150 additionally, all you need is a small air tank and pull valve.
cheaper to go to taco bell, get 3 of the $1 specials, timing is everything though
I have a friend with a beautifully restored Morris Minor delivery van on which he installed a rather potent secondary horn. It’s mounted under the car aiming forward and is between two and three feet long. He has to fire up the compressor for it to work, but when he sets it off I swear it makes the car move backward. Sounds like it came off of a cargo ship.
Robert M posted:dkennemo posted:Oh man, I LOOOOOOOVE the idea of the horn push with the ring that flashes the lights. How cool is that gadget? Does anyone have one of those on their Speedster??
IaM-Ray posted:dkennemo posted:Oh man, I LOOOOOOOVE the idea of the horn push with the ring that flashes the lights. How cool is that gadget? Does anyone have one of those on their Speedster??
I have this on my car, I bought an airhorn Screaming Banshee and it is an add on to my regular hella horns and when I press the horn button I can toot the horn but IF I hold it down for more than a second the airhorn comes on and also flashes my High Beam headlights.
Look it up
Was something lost in translation here? I thought @dkennemo was talking about the horn ring/light flasher found on the coupes.
Now that is a nice wheel. Someone should repo those and not charge crazy money for one.
That IS a nice wheel; but the fact that the car is RHD makes it that much better!
dkennemo posted:Wolfgang, really like the diagram. But as far as the gauges themselves, who makes the most accurate ones - or do people just buy originals?
I bought originals and had them professionally restored at Palo Alto Speedo. Teby did the same except he used Hollywood Speedo. They look good. Function well. Very expensive for what you get.
IaM-Ray posted:It does give you the ability to toot your normal horn anytime without the cacophony of an air horn.
Mine is similar. I have the standard horns. Go a little longer on the button and you get the accompanying sounds of 4 tuned 1960's / 70's Cadillac horns. It preeeeetty funny.