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Going for Carrera HP

JamesBondSilverJamesBondSilver
I bought a Beck Speedster awhile back and it came with what was claimed to be a "2180",it has a decent setup,runs OK,running dual 44IDF,A1 sidewinder,etc.
Well I honestly believe this motor is not putting out anywhere near the claimed "120 hp".The valvetrain was noisy so I took it apart and found the rockers with literally 1-2 mm of play,and it also had stock type rockers in there.......I figure with a "110 cam" it would have atleast some ratio rockers/swivel feet or ATLEAST the rockers shimmed correctly.
The engine runs decent enough for me to put it into my 1971 Westfalia van,so that is where it is headed after I get my "CPR"-aka Anibal Chico motor.
I called Chico and explained that since the original Porsche Carrera engines put out anywhere between 110-130 hp,that is what I wanted,especially since this Beck is built in "Carrera Speedster" livery,and figure since original Speedsters weighed 1620 lbs.dry,and my Beck weighed in at 1680 with fulltank,then if I have 130 hp,then I would have almost a exact power/weight ratio of the original Carrera which I think is cool as hell,and fitting for a "Carrera Speedster" replica.
I am a professional mechanic by trade and own my own VW/Audi repair shop,however I do not build aircool for a livijng and know enough to leave it to the pros.......I do not have enough time to CC heads,set up rocker geometry,etc,etc,so I decided, after reading excellent testimonials about his engines,to go with a CPR built motor.
His estimated build time is 5 weeks,so I am patiently waiting and will post up pictures when I receive the engine.
What I think is cool,and was a big selling point for me is that he breaks in the motor,sets up the jetting and gives you a dyno sheet of your actual motor running on his dyno,and he promised me a easy 130hp out of a 2017 motor. I will be getting a aluminum case,and the entire rotating assembly including the crank pulley/flywheel & clutch will be dynamically balanced before installation.
The total cost will be around 4k with shipping to Hawaii,I cannot wait for my VW engine with Carrera HP! Aloha


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JamesBondSilverJamesBondSilver
I bought a Beck Speedster awhile back and it came with what was claimed to be a "2180",it has a decent setup,runs OK,running dual 44IDF,A1 sidewinder,etc.
Well I honestly believe this motor is not putting out anywhere near the claimed "120 hp".The valvetrain was noisy so I took it apart and found the rockers with literally 1-2 mm of play,and it also had stock type rockers in there.......I figure with a "110 cam" it would have atleast some ratio rockers/swivel feet or ATLEAST the rockers shimmed correctly.
The engine runs decent enough for me to put it into my 1971 Westfalia van,so that is where it is headed after I get my "CPR"-aka Anibal Chico motor.
I called Chico and explained that since the original Porsche Carrera engines put out anywhere between 110-130 hp,that is what I wanted,especially since this Beck is built in "Carrera Speedster" livery,and figure since original Speedsters weighed 1620 lbs.dry,and my Beck weighed in at 1680 with fulltank,then if I have 130 hp,then I would have almost a exact power/weight ratio of the original Carrera which I think is cool as hell,and fitting for a "Carrera Speedster" replica.
I am a professional mechanic by trade and own my own VW/Audi repair shop,however I do not build aircool for a livijng and know enough to leave it to the pros.......I do not have enough time to CC heads,set up rocker geometry,etc,etc,so I decided, after reading excellent testimonials about his engines,to go with a CPR built motor.
His estimated build time is 5 weeks,so I am patiently waiting and will post up pictures when I receive the engine.
What I think is cool,and was a big selling point for me is that he breaks in the motor,sets up the jetting and gives you a dyno sheet of your actual motor running on his dyno,and he promised me a easy 130hp out of a 2017 motor. I will be getting a aluminum case,and the entire rotating assembly including the crank pulley/flywheel & clutch will be dynamically balanced before installation.
The total cost will be around 4k with shipping to Hawaii,I cannot wait for my VW engine with Carrera HP! Aloha


FM Former Member
2017cc's???? What bore and stroke combination is he going to use. 78.4 mm crank and 90.5 mm pistons???

Everyone has an opinion, myself included. Had that been my engine, I would have cut the case and heads for 94mm pistons, added some spacers and shims to the valve train and made it a 2276cc engine for far less than you're spending for your new engine.

The original Carrera's had about 130 to 135 HP but,,,that was at 7,200 RPM's Thus, the engine required high RPM's just to move the car from a stop.

A long stroke engine generally produces more usable torque and would have given you a greater power band in which to drive the car.

Remember, Torque and HP cross on the dyno graph at 5,252 RPM's
FM Former Member
In theory, a diesel engine's HP and torque will cross at 5,252 RPM's but, a diesel engine would explode first.

Remember, diesel engines produce a bunch of torque with minimal HP.
For instance, the Cummins engine in my motor home produces 400 HP but 1,250 lbs of torque.

Maximum Torque, I believe is rated at 1,600 RPM's and Max HP at 2,200 RPM's
FM Former Member
So I looked up a whole bunch of dyno results and found that DANG! That's exactly right. HP and torque intersect at 5250 (or 5252 depending on whose throwing down). Below 5250 you always have more torque than HP. Above 5250, you always have more HP than torque.

I looked at over 30 dyno graphs for 911 engines, in-line six BMW engines, and chevy V8s. This is true every time.

An interesting note that I ran across. According to the information I found, if your dyno sheet shows the engine (that revs high enough to test) with an intersect at some other place, like 6,000 or 4,500 or whatever, then there is an issue with the dyno computation. That's a nice way of saying that the dyno sheet is baloney. Of course, you guys know me, I think pretty much all dyno numbers are inherently inaccurate.

so thank you Larry for edumacating me and leading me to learn more about this crazy hobby of ours.

angela
FM Former Member
Interesting to note that the HP curve of a Bugatti Veyron with over 1000 Hp and the HP curve of an original VW Beetle with 36 Hp will both cross their respective torque curves at exactly 5252 RPM.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower#Relationship_with_torque

Scroll down to "Relationship to torque" and you will see the magic number 5252 is a simplification obtained by combining fixed constants in the mathmatical definition of Horsepower and Torque.

Ya all shudda stayed awake in class!
JamesBondSilverJamesBondSilver
Well,if you guys want to check it out,google Anibal Chico and he has a bunch of egines on youtube on his engine dyno.
I am having him build me a engine with nice powerband,and a rev limit of 6k.He said I can make the same HP with a 1776 however the bigger 2.0l will do it with less revs and more tq.
Nowadays 130HP is not abig deal,but I want a RELIABLE 130HP!
FM Former Member
"...According to the information I found, if your dyno sheet shows the engine (that revs high enough to test) with an intersect at some other place, like 6,000 or 4,500 or whatever, then there is an issue with the dyno computation. That's a nice way of saying that the dyno sheet is baloney..."

Well... Keep in mind Steve that you can have a dyno sheet that does not intersect simply by having the dyno read differing charted numbers (the numbers along each side representing your output) for TQ & HP. We use to do that for Ferrari & Porsche engines (I ran a dyno shop) just so we could read the chart better as a Ferrari/Porsche engine could have very low TQ numbers and nice high HP numbers. So dividing up the charted numbers (say right side TQ we would chart a max of 400 Ft Lbs and left side HP we would chart a max of 700 HP) would make for an oddity at intersect point - but a clean graph.

It does not absolutely mean the dyno graph is fraudulent.

Always look to the graph and confirm that both sides (HP/TQ) are charted either equally - or askew. That will help.
MASSIVETYPEIVMASSIVETYPEIV
Carrera HP is easy to reliably attain with a T1 or T4 platform.. What you don't want is the Carrera powerband which is virtually worthless on the street. The last Carrera engine I built started to pull at 5k RPM and with Lemans gearing in the 59 Carrera lightweight it sucked to drive..

Jack C has the same HP as a 1600 Carrera engine, but double the torque down low where it's needed.
JamesBondSilverJamesBondSilver
I have never seen or even heard a Carrera engine in person,it must have been cool to be able to build and drive one. It is really more a race motor and not torquey for street from what you are saying.
I too am looking for more torque and a better powerband out of my little VW mill.
Larry,please elaborate,I have read about 90% great reviews and 10% negative. Was your friends a high HP build? High revver?
Just want to know,since I have already placed a deposit.....Aloha
J justinh
Horsepower is a synthetic value. An engine ONLY produces torque (at a given RPM). HP is just a calculation for the amount of work (force over distance) the engine can do. Since HP is only defined by the equation and has no independent measurement, HP always equals Torque when RPM=5252.

HP = Torque x RPM / 5252

This is why you have to rev the shit out of an engine to get high HP numbers if it has low torque.
DUBSTUBDUBSTUB
Thomas, the guy that rebuilt that engine when the main bearings crapped out has been doing VW engines since black and white TV. The only problem is that he never moved forward from just rebuilding stock engines. He changed out a few things, but I am not surprised he didn't know to put in the cool, important updated stuff. I agree with that engine size, etc., it should be producing much more power. Why do I think that? Have no idea. Just seems like there should have been more there. It did produce more than my first VS 1915, but who knows? Apparently the roads in Hawaii will accomodate more speed, just make sure the dam thing stops when you want it to. By the way, I am on the drawing board with my third Speedster.
FM Former Member
Warren,

On e-bay, there is a quite nice IM up right now, with a six, well-done suspension and a G50. In California.

Jake's right about people that should have, but haven't, retired... They are somewhere between competant and dead, never daring to venture to either of those extremes.

angela
MASSIVETYPEIVMASSIVETYPEIV
That Spyder already has one of my engines.. I would be willing to finish that car for the right buyer.

Anyway, Steve's statement is spot on about being competent or dead.. thats an awesome quote! NOTHING is the same as it was when these guys were in their prime, they have failed to realize that the only constant in their life has been them being alive and that EVERYTHING else has changed.

Warren, get in line!
JamesBondSilverJamesBondSilver
Hello Warren,the motor still runs OK,it is just not a "performance" build IMO. Chico has had many great reviews for his street engines,however maybe they are not up to snuff when pushed on a racetrack or severe thrashing,which is OK with me since this is a weekend fun car for me. Your old engine will be going into my 71' Westfalia,since it still runs decent and doesn't leak hardly any oil.
Chico mentions everything is dynamicly balanced and the engine even comes with the clutch installed and a set of 44 Webers pre-jetted and the engine broken in with a dyno sheet,can't ask for much more than that I guess. It will cost about 4k inthe end,but if it makes "130HP" I will be stoked!!!
JamesBondSilverJamesBondSilver
Yes,I got the engine,and it is installed in the car right now,I have to button up a few things then it will be ready for its full brek-in. I am impressed with how clean the engine build was,no excess goop/sealer anywhere,very sanitary work. I mentioned in a previous post the tq. line is VERY flat,and 136hp dyno is just what the doctor ordered.
When I took out the motor that "Joes buggy house" built,I was not impressed. He put on a huge oilpump that made the oil volume/pressure way to high forcing oil out of the cooler seals,as well as not porting the heads at all,not to mention using stock rockers on a "2180. I am not sure that is really even the engine size! basically he bolted on stock heads/rockers/stock weight flywheel/probably stock crank & rods and bolted on 44IDF's with a nice A-1 system. It was probably making 80hp if that!!It had nice tq. but you can tell there was not any gain in HP as the revs rose.
This balanced and correctly setup Chico motor should be a entirely different animal!
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