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Hi all,

I’ve been a member of the forum for a long time, and have always appreciated the spirit and companionship here. When I started out on my build and living in the UK I was lucky enough to travel to Knotts Berry Farm and meet some of the group. Everyone was so warm and kind, Dale Bates and Bill Steele in particular.

Life has kicked me in the butt repeatedly since then, and the car has been sat in the garage for a long time. I tried to sell it many times but my wife, who is probably wiser than me, said when it’s gone you can’t get it back.

I’m at a point now where I can and want to get back enjoying the car, so you can probably expect a few stupid questions from me. Life is short and made for living  I’m living in Sydney, Australia now where the weather is better for using the car.

Anyway, good to be back. If you have any tips for someone getting back into the madness let me know.

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@Jonr400 posted:

Everyone was so warm and kind, Dale Bates and Bill Steele in particular.

Those guys were (and are) gems, but alas - have been gone a long time. I'm still in touch with Dale, but Bill came and went (our loss, I can assure you - he was brilliant, and way, way ahead of the curve on most of this stuff). I was at Knotts in '05 - we might have met, but I don't recall it.

As for coming back to all of this - WELCOME! I always appreciate the international perspective. Most of us are US based and have a pretty narrow view of the state of the replica world beyond the NA continent.

What do you have? Speedster Clinic? Chesil? Something else? T1 VW motivation, or something else more in keeping with the smog rules in Oz?

I'm super-interested, and glad to have you back.

If you're going to roll it out of the garage get it up, get under it, inside it, behind it, in front of it, and all manner of of it. Go through the systems and make sure it all works. The engine should start, the brakes should stop, the tires should roll, and the steering wheel should steer. Once you feel it's ready to go, go. If you encounter any problems ask and we will tell.

Thanks guys. I’ve been over the car and checked the obvious things like brake lines, steering coupler, fuel lines etc. and all looks good.

The car is a pretty conventional Chesil build. IRS pan, 1914 T1 motor with DRLA40s. KYB shocks all round and Kerscher rear disc brakes. Dropped spindles on the front.

The motor is mostly CB Performance parts so nothing too exotic. Wish I’d put a stroker crank in there, maybe next rebuild. It was built by a guy in Sydney called Mike Kristen.

It drives really well. I’ve got a rear anti roll bar I’ve never got round to fitting and will put on there, but there’s very little body roll as it is. It doesn’t turn in quite as quick as I’d like and there’s little self centring, I’m hoping a bit of negative camber and some caster shocks will sort this.

The only other issue I get is vapour lock on hot days. I’m planning to drill some extra holes in the underside of the deck lid to see if this sorts it. If not I’ll see what plan B is, unfortunately there’s no hole behind the cooling fan intake. Built for the UK I guess. It’s 32/90 here today and the motor would start to stumble in traffic.

I made the mistake of fitting CB rhino trans mounts that are just too loud. Got some HD grey mounts to replace these. Will do a mid mount if I need to. I’m thinking of letting someone else do this, much easier with a hoist and a transmission jack.

Other than that the plan is just to get out and drive it. I’ve lost too much time enjoying this car as it is. You know what they say - enjoy yourself, it’s later than you think.

Thanks for the warm welcome back.

Last edited by Jonr400

FWIW, I just did a complete trans rebuild.  I had the great advantage of hiring a long time master mechanic who has been doing this kind of work on air cooled German hardware for 40 years. Now retired. So without many of the very interesting details, we had the motor and trans out in about 6 hours using a floor jack in a rather small garage.  The trans went to a guy who knows his shyt upside down and backwards, for a complete refurb, lots of new parts including SuperBeetle stronger gears and shafts, the replace of a broken ring gear.  It all went back together in about a day and half, and that included some additional "while we're at it" stuff, not least was a new clutch cable, new Magnaspark coil and distributor, engine timing, CV joint half-axle (IRS) and Weber (44 IDF) carb balance and tune.   Its a hobby . . .  So glad things have settled for you and you're back at the Madness. 'Im on the US  East Coast and have spent several weeks touring "down under" including Sydney, a couple of years ago. .  Loved that.  Saw lots of very cool stuff, not least was the car shown, parked at a pub in Tasmania, of all places.  All tricked out for rallye. A remarkable car, steel I do believe. 20190216_14584120190216_14590220190216_150143

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@Jonr400 posted:

Danny I hear you man. I normally do everything myself. On the trans mounts, I’ve got an oil cooler in the wheelwell, to take the motor and trans out would be a mission. Someone with a hoist and a transmission jack could just move em down and back a bit and replace the mounts with everything left connected.

Try pulling a motor on a Spyder. This is what I think about EVERY time I have to do it.

Taking a motor out of a Speedster is trivial comparatively(except for Stan's dry sump setup).

So, you have an oil cooler? You have two hoses, a couple electrical leads, a throttle cable, a couple fuel hoses, maybe exhaust, then it's out with 4 bolts. The trans doesn't even have to come all the way out, just slid back after you swap the bellhouse mounts to get to the front mount.

All you need are some tall jackstands and a floor jack. I'd make a dolly that could hold the engine and still remove the floor jack from under it.

@El Frazoo glad you got your transmission sorted.

There is no such thing as "Super Beetle" gearing. It is a very common myth, furthered by some now defunct transaxle rebuilders and people repeating the same BS on thesamba.com. Almost all cars BEFORE 1973 had a 3.80 first and a 2.06 second on the mainshaft. They were prone to breakage when abused(drag racing, off-road, and hooning).

After 1973, VW went to a 3.78 1st and stayed with 2.06 2nd. The teeth were larger on this mainshaft, so much stronger but the ratio was almost identical. This was in ALL type 1 cars, and a bunch of all the other types from that point onward. It coincided with the SSC(single side cover) trans case, which could NOT be used in mid-engine configuration. The differential can't be flipped.

@Jonr400

"It’s 32/90 here today and the motor would start to stumble in traffic."

Do you have a mechanical (VW style) fuel pump?  Those can be prone to vapor lock and gas percolation on really hot days as they try to suck the fuel (and bubbles) back from the tank.  That's hard to do.

The best cure is to run an electric rotary fuel pump, like from CB Performance, up front, under the fuel tank, which pushes the fuel to the carbs, bubbles and all.  I think Carter makes one similar (or maybe the same under the Carter name).

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/3193.htm

There must be something similar at 3-1/2 pounds pressure in Australia somewhere.  I have a 2,110 with a pair of DRLA 40's and use the CB pump and it's been great up to around 40/105 degrees ambient.  

Anything hotter than that and I'm not out there in it.  😉

And Welcome to the group!

Last edited by Gordon Nichols
@DannyP posted:

@El Frazoo glad you got your transmission sorted.

There is no such thing as "Super Beetle" gearing. It is a very common myth, furthered by some now defunct transaxle rebuilders and people repeating the same BS on thesamba.com. Almost all cars BEFORE 1973 had a 3.80 first and a 2.06 second on the mainshaft. They were prone to breakage when abused(drag racing, off-road, and hooning).

After 1973, VW went to a 3.78 1st and stayed with 2.06 2nd. The teeth were larger on this mainshaft, so much stronger but the ratio was almost identical. This was in ALL type 1 cars, and a bunch of all the other types from that point onward. It coincided with the SSC(single side cover) trans case, which could NOT be used in mid-engine configuration. The differential can't be flipped.

I was going to leave this alone, but since Danny brought it up I'll add my 2½ cents-

Danny's right- there's nothing special about Super Beetle transaxles.  They've got the same guts (and case) as every other Type 1 trans of it's time of manufacture.  And when VW went to the 3.78 first gear- not just Super Beetles, but EVERYTHING that used those components got the upgrade.  That said, it takes a fair bit of effort to break an early 3.80 first gear.  I had 60? 80? 14 second passes on my 1850 lb Cal Look bug plus a bunch of street racing (yes, I was a bad boy, but I'm reformed now) over a 3-4 year period with the 1750 cc engine in it's last iteration (44 IDF's, W125, 40x35 heads, 6500rpm redline) and never broke the early mainshaft (maybe because I never had tires that would hook up?).

Most guys don't have to worry about the strength difference between the 2, unless you're constantly doing drag race style standing starts with a torquey 2 liter and your car is set up to lift the front wheels off the ground.  THEN you might have a problem.

BUT THEY'RE NOT SUPER BEETLE PARTS!

@Jonr400

"It’s 32/90 here today and the motor would start to stumble in traffic."

Do you have a mechanical (VW style) fuel pump?  Those can be prone to vapor lock and gas percolation on really hot days as they try to suck the fuel (and bubbles) back from the tank.  That's hard to do.

The best cure is to run an electric rotary fuel pump, like from CB Performance, up front, under the fuel tank, which pushes the fuel to the carbs, bubbles and all.  I think Carter makes one similar (or maybe the same under the Carter name).

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/3193.htm

There must be something similar at 3-1/2 pounds pressure in Australia somewhere.  I have a 2,110 with a pair of DRLA 40's and use the CB pump and it's been great up to around 40/105 degrees ambient.  

Anything hotter than that and I'm not out there in it.  😉

And Welcome to the group!

I’ve got the CB rotary pump mounted under the tank. There aren’t many holes in the deck lid so I’m going to start there. I think the original design had the UK rain in mind, where I am cooling is much more important.

I’ve also got fuel lines going to each carb from a T piece. I might look into a way to insulate the fuel lines in case that helps.

@Jonr400

Welcome back to "The Madness", Jon!

WRT your issues with driving on hot days and vapor lock, here is another solution (one of hundreds to follow ). Aside from drilling more holes into your rain-tray on the deck lid, fabricate a simple manner to lift your deck lid a few inches. Here is @Terry Nuckels application...Terry Lift

...and the fab I did on mine (which is removable when not needed)...

Trunk liftTrunk lift2

This simple fix has shown to make a noticeable difference in additional cooling. I'm sure you can come up with your own specs for this idea.

Hope this you find this info useful!

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As to Super Beetle or not, I'm just repeating what the builder told me.  I believe him as I have no reason not too.  Glenn confirms.  I will provide pictures a little later of what came out.  The larger beefier parts require a differently machined nosecone, and I got that too.  We are talking about a so-called Pro-Street tranny, unified case. And please treat me as the messenger, as I have no experience with these things, other than what I have seen and heard with this particular adventure.

@ALB

Al, since you picked my nits, I'll rebut.

Correct, all tunnel case, fully synchro-meshed boxes from 61-72 had the 3.80/2.06 combo. I have 5 from that range, 4 of which are disassembled at the moment. I turned a really early one into a shift fork adjustment jig.

Split case boxes (1960 and earlier, unsynchronized 1st) had a 3.60 1st and I can't remember 2nd. That's why I didn't say ALL.

At some point in the mid-60s, VW changed the trans case to allow the 1-2 shift rail to ride in it, which was previously un-supported. I think this may have accompanied the change to the 12v electrical system. Then a little later, VW changed the pinion bearing, making it larger and attaching with a large circular nut instead of 4 bolts and a retainer. So they changed the case again. Then in 1973, the SSC(single side cover) case came out. From then until 1979, they didn't change much.

@El Frazoo

By "unified" case I think you mean Rhino case, which is made of aluminum and stronger than the magnesium ones. The nosecone(and hockey stick) has changed many times over the years, and to my mind doesn't make it heavier duty or anything.

I probably ought to start another thread vs keep on with this hijack, but I do need to offer what else I think I know.  The not-split trans case (Rhino?) is  stronger than the split case and even if it is just the same  strength-wise it allows for closer tolerances in manufacturing and closer alignments of all the stuff that goes inside, as I understand it.  It does require assembling and tolerancing the parts on a jig before insertion into the case.  It strikes me as a more robust solution, and where folks go to handle the higher torque made by  larger engines than good old fashioned Beetles.  [N.B., my engine is a 2332, so has a lot of torque.] Key phrase: "as I understand it"; these are things told to me by people who ought to know. I have no personal experience nor have I read anything by way of engineering analysis that would claim one way or the other.  Mr Pip's opinion will remain as his opinion.  I attach a picture of what all was deemed either worn, broken or no point in replacing since better or new parts were available.  This included a main shaft from a Super Beetle, described as stronger than a "standard" Beetle type 1, and 1st and 2nd gears. My instruction to the trans guy was to do whatever it takes, best effort and best parts to be selected.  I further believe that he operates his shop in no other way.  That very well could be in stark contrast to the commercial vender that refurbished this trans and sold it to JPS for my car.  I have no basis to make such a claim other than: sure it could have gone that way, even though I paid extra for Pro-Street, and the "2332 upgrade". furthermore, the rebuilder said that he was a little surprised to see what he deemed as lesser parts in a trans sold as "Pro-Street".   I can post up the invoice that shows what all I got as part of this rebuild.  I believe that what I got are better parts than the ones that came out, assembled by a guy who pays very close attention to what he is doing, and has done hundreds, mostly to support the VW drag racing community.  I suppose only time will tell. First pic shows the broken tooth I discovered lying at the bottom of my case earlier this summer.  The other picture shows the parts returned to me, including the ring gear from which this tooth was mysteriously removed.  Further analysis will perhaps reveal why this tooth failed.  By my eyes, the fracture shows a fault in the microstructure at the root of the tooth that was augmented to critical size due to fatigue.  A metallurgist I know is going to give it a look and say more, perhaps.

RAVE ON!!

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Sounds like you're on top of it.  I'm currently in the middle of reading Bill Bryson's book  "In a Sunburned Country" about Australia and have been fascinated all the way through.  Just got done reading about Ululu (Ayers) rock and would love to experience it.  Very neat place to live, Australia!

It’s an amazing place to life. I’ve been lucky enough to travel a great deal, and there’s nowhere I’d rather settle.

We’ve got our problems, same as everyone, but there’s a lot to like. An amazing diversity of sights and climates. I could travel for the rest of my live without going overseas and not see everything I’d like to.

The best thing though is the people and culture.  Mateship and the idea of a fair go for everyone are central to this. We have our share of disasters and emergencies, and every time people pull together and look after each other. Our Rural Fire Service, State Emergency Service and surf lifesavers are mostly volunteers, giving up their time to keep others safe.

Very proud of the US and Australia sending firefighters to help each other in times of need. This is how the world should work.

There is a lot of stuff that can kill you, but it doesn’t really want to (usually). We encountered a brown snake blocking a trail where there was no mobile coverage; we kept our distance and threw stuff at it, we know if it bit one of us it would be game over. We also get a few funnel web spiders in the yard, we catch them and take them to the local hospital where they get collected and used to make anti venom. First time we had one in a little box in the car on the way to the hospital I said to my wife “don’t let that escape or we’ll have to sell the car”. If one of those gets you you’ll have a really bad day.

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Last edited by Jonr400
@MusbJim posted:

@Jonr400

Welcome back to "The Madness", Jon!

WRT your issues with driving on hot days and vapor lock, here is another solution (one of hundreds to follow ). Aside from drilling more holes into your rain-tray on the deck lid, fabricate a simple manner to lift your deck lid a few inches. Here is @Terry Nuckels application...Terry Lift

...and the fab I did on mine (which is removable when not needed)...

Trunk liftTrunk lift2

This simple fix has shown to make a noticeable difference in additional cooling. I'm sure you can come up with your own specs for this idea.

Hope this you find this info useful!

Yeah that’s the go I reckon. I’ve got a friend who is good with electronics, I might see if he could do something with an actuator. If not I’ll knock something up. Reminds me of my good old VW deck lid standoffs.

@El Frazoo posted:

I probably ought to start another thread vs keep on with this hijack, but I do need to offer what else I think I know.  The not-split trans case (Rhino?) is  stronger than the split case and even if it is just the same  strength-wise it allows for closer tolerances in manufacturing and closer alignments of all the stuff that goes inside, as I understand it.  It does require assembling and tolerancing the parts on a jig before insertion into the case.  It strikes me as a more robust solution, and where folks go to handle the higher torque made by  larger engines than good old fashioned Beetles.  [N.B., my engine is a 2332, so has a lot of torque.] Key phrase: "as I understand it"; these are things told to me by people who ought to know. I have no personal experience nor have I read anything by way of engineering analysis that would claim one way or the other.  Mr Pip's opinion will remain as his opinion.  I attach a picture of what all was deemed either worn, broken or no point in replacing since better or new parts were available.  This included a main shaft from a Super Beetle, described as stronger than a "standard" Beetle type 1, and 1st and 2nd gears.



The statements I made are not opinion, they are facts.

Fact: ALL tunnel case transmissions require setting the shift forks in a jig.

Fact: All tunnel case trans cases are stronger than split cases. A magnesium Rhino case is stronger than a standard magnesium. All aluminum Rhino cases are stronger still.

Fact: All 1973 and up mainshafts are the same(including the "Super Beetle"). There is nothing "Super", stronger(except for 1st gear), or special about them. Nothing whatsoever.

Fact: Your trans guy replaced the mainshaft(and 1st and 2nd idler gears), ring and pinion(matched set, so a must), mainshaft bearing, and 3-4 slider and hub(which was keyed on your old one, most probably splined on your new one). And new synchros were installed.

It looks like the clutch cross shaft bushing and return spring were swapped.

And finally, the gear carrier. The gear carriers get worn where the mainshaft bearing goes. The replacements are not necessarily stronger, just not worn is what you want. It's a press fit. This gets worn from aggressive driving, max on-off throttle makes this bearing move in and out, fretting and wearing the recess the bearing sits in.

I don't see an old pinion bearing there, but I do see the large locknut for it in the lower right of your parts photo. ALL Rhino cases use a 4-bolt early style pinion bearing. So you don't have a Rhino case, you have a case from ~68 and up. If two side covers, 68-72. If single, '73 and up.

Lore and myth from the Samba must be weeded out, or it will multiply, promulgate, and be forwarded forever. Kelly, you admit that you don't know about transmissions. All you know is what you've been told.

All I know is what I see in your picture. And I do "know" what all those parts are, it's not a guess.

You can tell yourself that you now have a stronger "Super Street" tranny, but other than the later mainshaft and a new R&P that's really it. I'll assume 3-4 gears are and were welded and transferred over? You should be good up to about 200hp, as long as you don't abuse it too much.

Apologies to Jonr400 for the thread drift.

Last edited by DannyP

@Jonr400  Great post.  I have not yet had the pleasure of visiting Australia - The 20 hours in the air one-way looks a bit daunting - but I have a distant (in all ways) niece who has lived in Alice Springs for decades and seems to love it there, although she lately feels that it is getting a bit too crowded there.

Bill Bryson wrote what most would call a "Travelogue" and includes a lot of anecdotes about local "characters", much like Bill McCarthy in his book "McCarthy's Bar" where he traveled around Ireland doing the same, looking for colorful pubs and their regulars.  That's how I found the ex-convent that became a B&B that I used to stay at near Cork.  I found his book at the Shannon airport whilst on a business trip.

Bryson spends no little time telling his readers that there are more things that can kill you in Australia, like mammals, birds, reptiles, insects and rip tides than anywhere else on earth.  And the fact that maybe 2/3'rds of the continent has not yet been explored by modern civilization and there are certainly more things out there to discover, like the solid gold, 80 pound nugget found in the mid-1800's and the mountain of almost pure iron found in the last century.  And that the original peoples have been there for something like 60,000 years (And no one yet knows how they got there and from where !!) and that there are still tiny, living creatures there that've been around for 400,000,000 years (!!!!) and so many species, that are found no where else on earth, that they're discovering yearly.

You're lucky to have landed in such a remarkable place!

Last edited by Gordon Nichols

On second thought, I have been to "Virtual Australia" and should have remembered.....

I have been riding bicycles for decades and in winter I ride a trainer set-up in the house where it's warm.  To say that riding an indoor trainer is boring is the understatement of the decade, so I bring up Youtube videos to watch to ease the boredom.

One of those I found is based in Australia, is very well produced, but I have no idea where they are riding.  I suspect somewhere near Melbourne, from the scenery and names on the buildings, but I haven't confirmed it.

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