GT Carrera exhausts, again

I have been scratching my head for a solution. Ideas anyone?

I don't care about heater boxes. Later I will be shopping for a recently serviced gas heater. Anyway, I was looking at the Kymco "Competition Merge Header," 1 & 5/8 inch dia.

A local muffler shop can weld a matching flange to a muffler pipe, which would be tilted up like a GT system. A SuperTrapp canister would be attached to the end. Simple, something like that.

I emailed tech support at Kymco to ask if their header supplier could retro fit their stinger internally with the same sort of baffling used by SuperTrapp (or something generic), if so that may work as long as it isn't too obnoxiously loud. I would rather not have the Hide Away, QP, FatBoy mufflers peaking out from beneath the car. Besides, I am going for the GT look.

Make sure that the merged header from Kymco doesn't sit too low. Someone on this forum bought a merged header from Kymco and it scrapped on the pavement (going into driveways, etc). I bought a merged Bugpack and had it modified to sit up as high as possible. I picked the Bugpack because it had thick flanges and thick tubing, since I was going to have it altered. Below is a picture of my exhaust system. You can just see the pipe turning away from the merged header flange.







Ron
P.S. Since this picture I've had it ceramic coated (silver) and it looks much better.
(Message Edited 8/2/2003 9:42:09 PM)
(Message Edited 8/2/2003 9:42:33 PM)

Ron, I might be wrong here but I believe Bugpack makes headers for Kymco. Do you know if it was the flange area that scrapped the ground or was it the muffler assembly? I will talk with Kymco Monday. I saw pictures of a new 550 Spyder muffler system offered by Vintage Spyder, it looks sorta like a Carrera exhaust, maybe it will work on Speedsters too, though it is for a mid-engine setup.

Ron, where did you get the ceramic coating done?

I can't remember who, on this forum, had the Kymco and didn't like the ground clearance. Eddie? I don't know what scraped, the end of the merged header, the muffler, or both.
Ron, Kool Coat (604 888 8688) did the ceramic coating. They're way out in Langley, just down the block from Airspeed. I'm sure Henry would know of a firm closer to, or in, Vancouver.
See you on Wednesday. Hey, if we get bored the three of us can stand around George's new car and make fun of it (or drool on it).
The 'first' Ron

We could have a lot of fun at Henry's on Wednesday. He has the 'test car' with the 170hp engine. The mid-flare car with the 3.2L Porsche flat 6 could be done. And he also has that red '99 Roadster with the fancy engine in it. We should take that '99 for a thrashing...I mean, "for a drive around the block".

Sounds good! I'll do the same.

The Third 'R'

Erik, Ron is right about the Kymco system, I bought one, did some measurements, and determined that it would sit way too low - I sent it back.
Per George Brown's recommendation, I purchased a 1 5/8th merged system from A-1 Mufflers 714-836-7200.
This system is a hide away type, but cold be modified for a GT look - you could weld a pipe from the muffler, and bring it back towards the center of the valence and have it exit at the middle.
I'll email you a picture of the system.

Dave

Erik, I have the Kymco extractor system in 1 1/2" for the Thing, and it works great. See the pics in my file.

I am posting this in case future Speedster owners want to go for a "Sebring" exhaust look for their GT conversion.

I heard from David, he purchased a Kymco comp merged but after careful measuring found there would be clearance issues. I spoke with Kymco, the guy said he didn't know but I could return it if not satisfactory.

I next spoke with the owner of Camco Fab, manufacturer of canister style mufflers. He said their Bobcat model (16 inch)works on the street, sold a ton of them and has tested them on dynos, virturally no performance loss over straight pipes. He said comp merged stick out a fair amount, and for his two cents suggested the inexpensive Thunderbird header and mount the canister to it so it exits in the center of the bumper. The Bobcat weighs five pounds so if it is extended too far out it will need bracing.

Obviously if the engine has serious parts in it (especially heads and the cam) the Thunderbird header would rob power, but it is a low budget approach if you are going to do without heater boxes or would rather not have pipes snaking throughout the engine compartment.

I will check out the Thing system by Kymco next.

Erik, make sure you talk to Jeff Bancroft he knows my system, it was the first they did for a speedster. Eddie

Ron OBlack -- when you get a chance could you measure from the flange to the ground (re clearance) and also from the flange to the nearest point of your valance.

Eddie -- could I bother you to do the same?

What I am shooting for is to have not just a pipe sticking out center the rear but for that piece to look "sorta" like a "faux" Sebring wide exhaust exit. (Hey, I live on the end of a gravel road and drink Pabst Blue Ribbon beer. And I have been known to shoot guns off the front porch and take a pee, sometimes at the same time. Talented guy.)

The cheapest approach I can figure is attaching a canister after the flange, perhaps a Camco Fab "Bobcat." I figured I would try a low budget approach and if it looked too cheesy on the next car get a Sebring clone custom made. Or buy a system from A-1 and be done with it.

I can't measure the flange to the ground, as the system is off of the car AGAIN (don't ask why). I can tell you that the header was altered so that the flange sits up as high as possible. The pipe that comes out of the header flange is very close to the rear valance (1/2").
Ron
P.S. Can you drink beer, pee and shoot your gun off at they same time?

Ron-O: Yep, here in the south at an early age our mama's give us special training so we learn to drink beer, pee and shoot our guns off at the same time. That's why so many Presidents are elected from the South.

Sorry about your exhausting exhaust problem, but when you get it re-installed I would appreciate a couple of measurements.

Yes the Kymco header (not the "Thing" type) will sit too low to the ground. I had one on my car for two weeks before I tore it back off. The scaping happened at the flange and the collector. When I mean scrape I'm talking about not being able to clear a speed bump. With two people in the car I would very slowly go over a speed bump and then I could actually hear the header grind on the bump as I very cautiously pulled away. My car is not that lowered! Another factor is that the car looks like it dragging spagettios with all that tubing visible. Did that, done that....get a CSP header or a Thing header. This info. I'm telling you cost me about five hundred bucks and alot of frustation to find out. I'm sure there are other ways but it'll be trial and error. Good Luck.

J-P

Jean_Paul, thanks for the real world experience, that is what I was after. I am assuming when sitting the lowest point was two or three inches above the road surface? Der Kymco idea is kaput. On the to der Thing set up!

Yo Eddie, could you make a couple of measurements re you Thing exhaust when you get a chance? Exhaust at lowest point to ground and also from the flange to the rear valance -- the closest straight line. Danke. And curious where the flange is in relationship to the bottom edge of the valence, is it slightly above?

Erik, take a look at the exhaust on this Ebay replica.

cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2426720309&category=6428

Is this what you had in mind?

Ron

Ron O -- yep, that is what I was thinking. Looks like he used a canister silencer system.

JPS has developed a center outlet also.

I was making it too dang complicated by wanting a merged system, but I don't want a beer can laying on the road to act like a tank barricade to my exhaust.

Most of the 50's era racing GT Carrera's came with a Sebring exhaust system, it wasn't seen on other 356 models. As long as I am going to copy a GT I want a center exit exhaust.

Erik, the "Sidewinder" from A-1 Muffler is a hide-away system that will allow fabrication of a large central exit exhaust pipe. There are also clones of the Carrera Sebring exhaust available from Spiderworks but they are quite expensive and would have to be adapted.

Lordy, if George says something is "quite expensive" I better have my life insurance policy paid up before I get a quote.

Not on this Speedster, this one is just for experimenting on, but the next Speedster will have a facimile of a Sebring exhaust. Now if someone would offer a shroud like on the beautiful four cam engine and it could be used on T1 or T4 block, life would be perfect.

Erik, here are the numbers you wanted. The distance from the flange to the ground is 5 1/2" , and my car is very low. From the flange to the val. is 4 1/2". Hope that helps. Eddie

One more thing, the bottom of the flange is 3 1/2" from the bottom of the val., which means the top of the flange is about 1/2" below the bottom of the val. Eddie

Erik, you could probably find a used Carrera twin fan, tin, and alternator set up but I hate to think of what they would cost; and then you'd have to modify them to fit your engine...

George,

There is a rumor someone is building a four cam shroud & fan for the Spyder guys.

Erik, is that so? It will take more than a sheet metal brake to do that. Next time you see a real 4 cam engine take a look at the shrouding, fan mounts, etc. Replicating all that stuff or a resaonable facsimile thereof would cost a godd bit of money. Some of those pieces show up on Ebay from time to time and are posted for big dollars.

I believe it was Jim Kelly that had the Kymco and described how it fit. He helped me with measurements on his system when I spec'ed out my system. I bought the Kymco merged header, but had my local Meinecke shop modify it to sit a bit higher and not extend beyond the bumper. This required having the flange cut back. The shop then used a hideaway muffler to tuck up under the bumper. Dual mufflers or a stinger pipe could also have been fitted once the header was modified. The modifications didn't come cheap ($125), but the look was a lot cleaner than the original Monza system or the VS Thing exhaust.

Yup, I did the same thing in cutting the flange back. I admit it did help but the header still scraped on gas station entrances and so on. People would say "cool car" and then I'd pull away from a gas station with one of those steep ramps that exits you into the street, Scrrraaappppee! Yes of course I tried to angle the car so this wouldn't happen but still, I couldn't take it. I really feal like the VS solution was a good one with the Thing exhuast as it sit up nice and high however the muffler part had to be taken off to get at the valves and that is too much work for me. Anyway I still have the kmcoexhaust if someone is interested they can have it for ten bucks, header and all. As for the Carrera look, you can easily get that look by merging the two mufflers togather at any local muffler shop.

J-P

Jean Paul,

I will take that Kymco exhuast if it is still for sale that cheap!