Hard time starting after being warmed up

Hey guys, I've searched and came up with some conclusions on what to do to "HELP" this problem but am confused on some direct answers. Could you guys give me a list of things that could possibly help to cure this..This is some of the things ive been doing lately..

1-2 Pump Gas, Turn Ignition
Hold down Gas, Turn Ignition then Pump.
and many different variations of this..

I heard about replacing the starter? or other things to a similar extent.. This is what I am possibly looking towards doing. Can you guys elaborate on it more? And how easy is the DIY? Thanks..

To start my hot or warm engine I use the following procedure (published here before):

Do NOT pump the gas (treat it just like any new FI engine).

Turn the engine over using starter, let it crank for 4 or 5 seconds.

When the engine starts to "sound different", depress the acelerator pedal one time.

VROOM, and it starts right up.

I do have a high torque atarter, but that should have no impact on this issue.

Good luck.

Skt? Your name has no vowels, man.

Anyhow.... Usually, after sitting long enough to get cold, Dellortos and Webers have evaporated some fuel out of the bowls. If the car's been sitting for a week or more, they'll be nearly dry. If the car has a mechanical fuel pump, you'll have to crank it a while to refill the float bowls. Pumping the accelerator squirts raw fuel down the verturis (by means of the accelerator pumps) as soon as there is any fuel in the bowls.

When the car is hot, the bowls are full, and the engine doesn't need enrichment to get going. "Pumping" at all when hot will just flood the car. When the car is hot, I floor the accelerator, start cranking, and don't take my foot off the gas until the engine catches.

Works every time.

Ok so what I get from both of you guys is...

Foot down on Gas pedal all the way to the floor.
Put key in ignition and crank for 4-5 seconds
Once engine starts sounding different let go of the gas pedal?

Is this correct?.. This is the manual way..

Is there a fix that I can buy also to help this or fix this all together? It sucks when people are around and you are trying to start this badboy up.

The names Scott :) FYI

I think you need to clarify what makes it "hard" to start, Scott.

Does the engine crank slowly like the battery is dead? That's starter. If it cranks quickly, leave the starter be.

Most "hard starting" on a warm car is fuel related. When you shut the warm engine off, the fuel perculates/boils in the carbs and may even drain into the engine which makes it seem as if it's out of gas. That's exactly what is wrong, it is literally out of gas. This is assuming of course, that your fuel pump is in good shape.

Most carbureted engines, when starting hot, do NOT need fuel until the engine is nearly started or actually running. So foot OFF until the engine begins to catch and then a bit of gas pedal to help it light off. Generally won't do any good to pump as you either have no gas in the carburetors or if you do have gas, you will wind up flooding the engine.

On occasion, ignition can contribute to a hot-start issue, but it is almost always a fuel issue. Once you are able to hear the engine catching and goose it with a little fuel, you'll feel like a pro for being "one with the machine" when it roars to life in front of everyone!

angela

Ang,
What I mean by hard time starting when hot is thsi scenario..

Start car cold. (Starts instantly..)

Drive around town and stop at my first errand.

Get back in car, put key in, turn key to crank (I hear a fast wine, wine, wine).. No start..

The second and so on attempts are turning the key and gas pedaling like you said (your method) and it still justs wines.

After a few different variations of turning on, holding the pedal, or pumping it finally starts..

I'm trying to figure out the easiest way to start it from a warm-hot engine.

Also I read people changing a few things to make the starting more consistent? Would it be a bad idea to mount a fan to the engine's cover to vent out or in?..

..."hear a fast wine, wine, wine [sic]..." If you hear this and the engine is not turning over, I'd suspect the starter solenoid. Things may be expanding when heated (ie, tighten up), possible corrosion or old age. Check your starter current.

Its trying to turn over.. I hear click click click wine wine wine....

I think everything is OK since it starts up perfectly fine on COLD right?

If I ha mechanical issues with parts it wouldnt start up perfectly cold? Or am I in the wrong?

I had the same issue. First start, two pumps crank and feather. After warm, just crank and feather. It was particularly embarassing having this difficulty after filling up when all eyes were on me :)

Fuel is too hot. Where is your fuel line and fuel filter?

Scott.
Read this thread: https://www.speedsterowners.com/forum/readmsg.asp?t=19041

I just had the same problem and posted this a couple of weeks ago. In my case, the fuel line was laying right against the block. I moved it up and no more problem.
Troy

Heat will affect the solenoid replace it but.

Try this before you go out and buy a new one. You can unsolder the cap take it appart and clean it then grind off the cap of the plunger contact end about 3/32 to correct a worn contact pin and it will be as good as new.

Also clean and regrease the Bendix with Advania grease.. When you dis a simble the bendix the bearing in the spline will fall out DONT lose any Clean Grease and reassemble..ALSO check and replace the brushes it they are worn down..

I say this becaues All the new after market stuff is Mostly China JUNK. Id rather have OEM reservice parts. They are Just that much better.

Excuse my french guys,

Buy I don't have a clue what you guys are referencing. I came from fuel injection and japanese engines. I'm barely learning the layout of the 1600cc. I can work on cars and have mechanical capability but am very clueless with the terms around needles, carb adjusting, and where everything is.. Bare with me, as I am actuallyu excited to work on a car again after hearing you guys. It has revived my inner mechanic inside :)

Now after moving some fuel lines I further away from sitting on the block (I think it is) I pulled some plugs one by one since I was reading on the sound of the vw engine. Mine sounded off.. Apparently my plug #4 does no alter to the idle while the other makes the idle worst.. Can you guys step by step me through this? To fix...

Seriously, some pics would be VERY helpful. That way we could get some idea of the layout and configuration you have.

When yo open the engine lid and look down, can you see pavement? You're not supposed to, but leaving off the dividing "tins" is a mistake some newbies make. It will really heat things up. The prevailing guess here is that your fuel line is too close to a heat source. Again, a pic would help us diagnose.

Let me clarify my initial response above:

I wrote above, "Do NOT pump the gas (treat it just like any new FI engine)."

Clarification - DON'T TOUCH THE DAMN GAS PEDAL!

Now continue on to step two as above.

Works for me the past ten years.

Here are some pics for the few that asked about my fuel line positions. Please let me know if they are in bad spots?.. Also I have a cylinder #4 thats not even firing! I pulled it out while the engines running and it did not affect the idle at all.. Pix of engine and the number #4 spark plug and the other one towards the rear of the car on the other side...


PICTURE 1
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/enoyskt/IMG_1603.jpg

PICTURE 2
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/enoyskt/IMG_1607.jpg

PICTURE 3
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/enoyskt/utf-8BSU1HMDA0MjYtMjAxMDA2MjYtMTY0N.jpg

Hmmm... I don't see anything immediately obvious related to your starting problem, but you do have a major fire hazard - your fuel filter is right over your coil. Those plastic filters are prone to leaks, and the coil could certainly spark, particularly if you have an ignition problem as you seem to with cyl. #4. Hopefully someone on here can help you with the starting issue.

One other thing - the open holes at each side of your cooling shroud mean that a lot of cooling air is being blown into the upper engine compartment rather than down over the cylinders. This means you aren't getting the cooling you need. On that type of shroud those are normally connected via air hoses to the heater boxes. If you're not running heater boxes, plug up those holes.

Are you talking about the holes in the tin on each side?.. Sorry I am not 100% familiar with the engine yet..

Also I will relocate the fuel filter, I have heard of some telling me to remove it all together?
What kind of fuel lines do you guys suggest to use?

On another note, I still have no real clue what to do about #4 not firing.. Whats the beginning of trouble shooting this to getting back functioning?

Here's a link that may help you with an air-cooled engine:

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewforum.php?f=11
By the way, in ref. to the most recent posts, the vertical sheet metal that houses the cooling fan is referred to as the fan housing. The two formed sheet metal protrusions coming out are called the heater "snorkels", sometimes called horns. They're usually "plumbed-up" with flexible hoses that are connected to the heater boxes on the under-side of the cool tin, a fancy name for the collective sheet metal that separates the top side from the bottom side. I believe you have plugs in yours which is a good thing. Left open, and without the heater flex hoses attached, your air cooling efficiency goes out the window (so to speak). That's the best-case scenario.

Misfire, no fire...?

Check that the manifold doesn't leak on the head, if this was, more likely both on that side of the motor would misfire, but possible only one. Check the spark plug (new ones or swap with another), wire?

The firing order of the motor is 1-4-3-2

When you look at the motor. Cylinders are:

Front of Car
3.........1
4.........2
Rear of Car

Looking at the
Distributor
Front of Car
3.........2
.....o.....
4.........1
Rear of Car
(The o is the coil)

Your hard start sounds like HOT fuel. Move your filter out of the motor area (when hot it starts evaporating and gaseous fuel will not ignite), also make sure fuel lines aren't touching the block...

These motors are AIR cooled and it requires enough fresh oil and air to remain cool.

If your not able to understand,how to corect a worn starter that sticks when hot, I guess you just have to Buy a new one Sorry I m just tryinng to teach ya , and save ya some money

Slater, Thank you for the link and explanation, Im going to read through it and learn alot..

Barry, I appreciate your words to help me correct the solenoid. I have the capability to work on it very much so but do not know your terminology via a VW motor... Bendix/Advania which solenoid? It will take me time to get acquainted with these words and how they relate to VW engine. I am so use to working on Japanese..

Mike, Id love to check for manifold leak on the head. I just need to know how to do that... I read do I spray brake cleaner around some area and see if the engine rpms raise? where do I spray?.. Thnx

Odds are if its missing,, you have a blown rezistor in the wire end tha plugs onto the spark plug . A simple ohm meter set in beep mode will confirm that by taking it off and hooking a lead on both ends of it , If it beebs? Its good.. Check um ALL.

The guys are right about making sure you have no air leaks in the engine compartment. AIR or WATER cooled engines Its important.

Check your compartment rubber seals make sure they are good and sealed up Any openings that let the heat from below come in will hurt it. Make sure all old heater pipe holes are somehow plugged

I have used Urethane sealant to patch a torn rubber seal until you have a chance to pull the engine and replace it with a new one .

The guys here can help you.