Has anyone tried a rear anti-roll bar for a swing axle?

I was on aircooled.net last night and noticed that they sell a rear anti-roll bar for swing axle cars....I'm wondering if one of those would bolt right up to a Speedster and what the handling would be like. After putting on my front roll bar I noticed the rear could use a little work now. I'm currently running a 23 mm bar up front and a camber compensator for the rear.

Check it out....

www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=SSS0005&cartid=0124200445329589

Also the front swaybar kit he has seems to make more sense than the one I'm using now....aircooled.net doesn't lower down as the front end is picked up, also doesn't sit too low.

J-P

The sway bar won't help with the 'wheel tuck' problem. Can you run both at the same time....seems strange.
Ron

I don't think there will be a problem with wheel tuck, could use those things that attach to the trailing arm to stop the tuck problem. I think CB sells them. Seems to me the rear end could use a little less roll.

J-P

JP, the handling on these cars is marginal at best when at the limit. The tendence is toward oversteer because of the weight distribution, all things being equal. Putting a swaybar on the rear will stiffin it up in the corners and induce more oversteer. The softer you can keep the rear and still keep the tire square to the road the better it will grip, making the car handle more neutral. The camber comp. helps keep the tires square to the road. The front sway bar stiffins the front suspension and makes it grip less in the corners thus making it less efficent, and a better match for the rear. If both the front and rear break loose at the same time in a corner it is easier to drive fast. Of course this is over simplified, but I think you catch the drift. Eddie

Actually, if you were going to set up a speedster for best handling, my thoughts would be to get the rear end to stick as good as possible through what ever means possible, tires, bars, comp, shocks, camber, toe in/out, etc., then match the front to it. the swing axle is NOT the cats meow when it comes to high speed handling. Eddie

That and learn how to set it up earlier in the corner and get back into it with the throttle to help push it through it's oversteer. Dang it's a blast.

I ran my 1962 beetle with front and rear anti-roll bars. The beetle is a heavier and longer car than the speedster. I had a 67 tranny with swing axle. I ran a 7/8

You 'rear engine power sliding guys' like to live on the edge. Have you ever had the back end of a rear engine car come around a bit too far? Happened to me and it scared the (you know what) out of me! All that rotating mass wanting to pass you is nothing to laugh at (at least I didn't). Luckily, I had enough brains to stay on the throttle, and I made it through the corner.
Ron

Your right about having the front more stiff than the rear to reduce the oversteer but I'm thinking that the rear end does need a little bit of help. I also think a rear bar is needed just because many people who have IRS cars run rear bars on them, same weight distribution. Perhaps an adjustable rear bar makes sense to tune the sus. to what it needs.

I also think the camber compensator helps only when both wheels are coming down like in a braking situation and doesn't help as much when cornering and the car is nuetral.

J-P

So what happens if you come into a corner too fast and brake hard?
Ron

You will die!

Right now my car still oversteers alot although the camber compensator and the front roll bar has helped. I really do think that the addition of a rear roll bar would help in a corner even at speed and some way of limiting the downward travel of the sus. where it goes into a neg. camber position would be ideal.

I'm looking to get the car to handle large fast curves, right now the car gets a little squirley when going through a long sweeper at 60+ mph. Part of that I'm sure are the narrow tires I'm using as I can feel the rubber start to push over.

J-P

For a good read on driving your tub at the limit try this book, PORSCHE HIGH-PERFORMANCE DRIVING HAND BOOK by Vic Elford from MBI

A thought about camber comps, from my experience, during high speed cornering the comp keeps the inside rear tire from tucking under when the body leans from centrifical force. This keeps more rubber on the ground while the car is under load and that means more stable cornering. A swaybar kind of does the same thing, but also has a tendency to stiffin the rear suspension when under load which normally reduces traction. I would think an adjustable sway bar like the one from Air Cooled Dot Net on the front would allow you to adjust the front end stifness to match the rear for good balance. I think I am going to try one of these pretty soon, and I'll post the results. Eddie

Bingo...that's exactly what I'm thinking here too. I'm also curious in shimming the current camber compensator so that it has more of an effect. Lot's of things to try...The high speed cornering stuff is pretty sketchy in these cars.

J-P

No matter how much you shim the compensator it only restricts the unloaded axle from dropping. This is great when in a corner and you hit a bump. The compensator is unloaded when suspension is in compression. Outside wheel releases from compensator.

Camber compensator does little if anything to improve handling. It seems to only make the car safer.

I think the sway bar will help. It will put pressure to lower the inside wheel in cornering. Allowing for a flatter car in the corner. Adding a rear bar will increase oversteer. A very heavy bar may be needed in front to compensate.

Eric, yes a car will corner flatter with swaybars, but ultimate grip equals higher speed even though the car may lean a little more. But don't get me wrong the sway bar may help in your case. The only way to tell is to do back to back tests. One thing to keep in mind, a car that's neutral at high speed normally understeers at low speeds, and a car that's neutral at low speeds normally oversteers at high speeds.

Wheel tuck killed the air-cooled 6-cylinder rear-engined Chevrolet Corvair models! Had they outfitted their early cars with camber compensators they would of had possibly avoided their demise. Chevrolet knew of the problem but for $$$ reasons negated to install them until too late. If your car is not handling safely due to wheel-tuck then it your driving performance handling capabilities are being limited and you car's optimum handling potential is being held-back.

Perhaps the first thing to do is check and test different tire pressures to get the car a littte more setup. After that I think a wider tire, currently I'm running a 165-60-15. I'm still thinking though the car is pretty soft in the tail.

Anyone running 185's? How's the clearance?

J-P

JP,

I have 185-65's on mine. Kumhos They are real close to the fender but have NEVER touched them in my driving.

Bruce

I have 185-65 Michelins on the rear and 165 coopers on the front. I have the classic look VS. Just misses fender and spring plate adjuster. This helped the rear stick a lot better. The coopers slip real easy. I guess this combination makes a more neutral car. I had pressures too low at one point and lost the rear in a fast corner. I since have been running higher pressures based on the JPS guideline sheet he sent me. Much better.

Eric,
I'd be interested in seeing JPS guidelines for Speedster setup.
Next time you talk to JPS and if they don't mind and you don't mind, how about posting their recommended guidelines.

Thanks,
Greg B

I'm running Dunlop A2 185/85s front and rear. They have a good feel to them at a reasonable price. Running 24 psi front and 28 psi back for daily driving.

I am interested in the results, if anyone here runs a sway with Camb/Comp on the rear.