Have to jump speedster to turn over

Or a bad ground or a bad alternator, or a bad battery. Batteries don't seem to be as robust as they used to be and bad cells are quite common.

Check main battery ground and wire terminals to the starter.  Make sure they are shiny and clean. Have you driven it enough to charge the battery?  Long distance if still running a generator - maybe 30 minutes if alternator.

I had similar issues.  Just replaced my alternator and added a fresh battery, and new cables. Solved all my issues. The alternator was going bad and the battery was past its life cycle and was not holding full cranking CCA charge.

What is never mentioned here is corrosion INSIDE the battery cables.

They look fine, ends are fine, insulation is fine. But they may have more resistance(due to corrosion), which should be measured. More than a couple 1/10ths of a volt drop from one end to the other and they're junk. Use a quality DVM(digital volt meter). My standard is 0.1 volt, more than that and replace.

Some guys here will agree that welding cable is a great choice, but you need to have the ends crimped on(any good welding supply shop can do this). Welding cable is finer-stranded and flexible.

Also, clean and bare metal is needed for good connections, and the use of star washers is highly recommended. I bolt together then coat with grease or you can even paint over the junction to protect it.

on my 2232 I ended up buying one of those hi-torque starters.

I've been working on old cars for the better part of 45 years. The battery cable thing cannot be oversold - it's bit me twice on various cars (one of them my speedster). One was on a 7.3 Ford diesel with 2 batteries (both replaced without success). Cables make you look and feel like an ape with tools.

The cables LOOK fine from the outside, feel fine when you squish the insulation - but fill with white chalky corrosion in the late stages. The only surefire way I've ever found to check cables is to use a multi-meter AT THE STARTER while somebody else tries to crank the car over (red lead on the solenoid, black on the engine case). Compare that to the voltage at the battery doing the same thing (red to the positive terminal, black to the frame). The last check is the grounding cable, which you can determine by checking the voltage (again, while cranking) at the battery terminals (+/-) and then with the red lead on the positive terminal and the black on the frame.

If you have a bad cable, it'll be pretty plainly obvious at that point. If you have a problem, it will be at the battery end 95% of the time.

@barncobob posted:

on my 2232 I ended up buying one of those hi-torque starters.

Me too, on my first Speedster. I moved it to every successive Speedster ever since. My IMI high-torque starter is by far the oldest thing in the car (except for the driver).

If needed, I recently bought a few new 4awg cables from batterycablesusa for projects on my 911 and the spyder.  The quality, price and speed of delivery were great.  Custom lengths are available....

@Stan Galat posted:

Me too, on my first Speedster. I moved it to every successive Speedster ever since. My IMI high-torque starter is by far the oldest thing in the car (except for the driver).

Stan recommended an IHI starter to me when we were discussing issues with my car intermittently failing to start.

Fixed it! Really cranks, and with authority, compared to my stock VW starter.

Difficult to install on my 2002 VS without a lift, but worth it.

@Jay Barrow posted:

The last several drives, I’ve had to jump the car to get it to turn over. Is this likely a bad starter?

Jay

It's possible that the battery has a bad cell. Regardless, this would be a good time to address the issues noted; battery cables, bad ground, starter/solenoid, faulty alternator (not charging), etc.

Hope you can get it sorted out!

Yeah, agree on the IMI. I use two of them, one on the Spyder and the other on the Vee.

Fixed my hot-start heat-soak problem on the Spyder.

That's cool on the custom cables, Mike.

I haven't priced battery cables in, about, forever, but I'm guessing they might be the least expensive part to replace, maybe, I really don't know. But they might be the easiest part to replace. Work through the problem as suggested by those with more knowledge than me instead of guessing at the problem. If you still want to upgrade those other parts you can.

Just for a comparison, I was driving my 2018 RAM Diesel 6.7 Cummins to pick up a 2016 Cayman S from a client who was trading that and an '18 Cayenne in on a '23 Cayenne Turbo Coupe. It was 19* outside, but the problem was, it was only about 40* inside my cab, maybe less. I checked the onboard display and the engine was running at 198* and everything was fine. The first thing I thought of was that I needed a new heater core, $$$$$. Especially since a heater core replacement is outside of my experience level. Did some research, a lot of research, and it's pretty common for the RAM heater core to just get plugged up which restricts water flow. Most people turn up their fan but that cools the lukewarm air even more so it gets colder. The HC gets clogged because of their use of OAT radiator coolant. That might be environmentally friendly but it has a nasty habit of coagulating over time and plugs everything up. It has also ruined my coolant overflow bottle. The level sensor no longer works and it always reads low even low it is full. So I bought $15 worth of hoses and clamps so I can flush the heater core as has been suggested by all of the diesel mechanics on YT. An hour and a half of my time and $15 for parts is worth it for the first fix attempt. 99% of the time it does the trick, if not I know what needs to be done. It'll take another 3 hours to replace the coolant bottle and flush the rest of the system.

I had similar problems. In my case, it turned out to be the alternator, but Greg mentioned above the 1st thing I'd check: the battery and cable terminals for corrosion. You may be getting enough juice to jump the car because your jumper cables are attached to the non-corroded outside of the cable ends.

If cable ends and terminals are clean and tight, check to see if your alternator is working up to snuff. You can check this by measuring the voltage between ground and the output terminal on the alternator. If you rev the engine up to 2000 rpm or so, you should see well over 13 or 14 volts on the alternator. That means your alternator is charging well enough to keep the battery charged.

Your car starts when jumped, so it's probably not the cables or starter (although I too am a happy customer of IMI starters and Batterycablesusa). If the cable ends look ok and the alternator is charging, I'd guess you need a new battery. That is especially the case if the battery is over 3 years old.

Good luck!

Oats are a lousy coolant, for sure. I'd bet that even pureed they'd get clumpy and sticky. What were they thinking?

Yeah.....   Chia seeds would have been a lot better.   🙄

.

Wow, the older I get, the less I know.

When I was a kid, there was only one kind of oat. They put it in Cheerios. Supposedly, they also fed it to horses, but I was a city kid, so never really knew.

Then, I got a little older and found out you had to distinguish between oats and OAT — something pilots have to worry about. Two completely different things with the same name. Confusing, right?

And now, there's a third OAT to keep track of? And it has nothing to do with EITHER of the other two oats? If they've got some new stuff, can't they just make up a new name for it?

The interwebs say if you get some of this new OAT stuff, that a monomolecular layer of inhibitors is formed only at anodic sites. As if that's supposed to explain what it is.

I'm pretty sure I don't want any.

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To say nothing of the dismay I feel trying to buy regular old "oat" oats (as opposed to OAT, which I also had to look up).

Steel-cut oats, rolled oats, "quick" oats, "instant" (as opposed to "quick"?) oats, oat bran, oat flour, and whole oats. What am I supposed to do with that? They're oats - even looking for the little smiling Quaker man only narrows it down to 3 or 4 of the 14 different kinds of oats out there.

I've been sent to the store to buy oats before. Nothing makes you feel like a small child quite like being a shaved ape looking for "oats" at Kroger. I even like oat muffins and I had no opposition to oatmeal as a child (in our home it served as an acceptable delivery mechanism for eating pure butter and brown sugar, as I recall).

Oats kind of mystify me. Come to think of it, the similarities with OATs are pretty striking. I've got no idea when we went from good 'ol green antifreeze to 14 colors (some of which say they can be used in any car). Some are Ford or GM specific. Napaonline says there is red, green, blue, pink, "blue, bright and clear", "pink and clear", and violet anti-freezes out there. I swear I've seen brown as well, and for the love of all that's good, whatever you do DON'T MIX THEM!!! or put them in the wrong car.

I live on the wild side. I figure "what's the worst thing that can happen?", then @Robert M shows up telling me about plugging up his heater core WITH THE RIGHT ANTIFREEZE! What the actual heck?

Oats are really cornfoosing, that's why I like my clown-car and eggs on toast.

I've sworn off putting any antifreeze in my speedster. I like living on the edge.

Stan, it's simple, buy a bag of steel cut oats, put some in a pan of boiling water, turn it down low and come back in 30 minutes.  Put some in a bowl along with your favorite toppings and enjoy the best porridge you'll find this side this side of Loch Lomond.

I used to be partial to sugar, cinnamon, and butter. Lately I'm more likely just to add a pat of butter and some salt. I'm sure you'll figure it out.

@Michael Pickett posted:

Stan, it's simple, buy a bag of steel cut oats, put some in a pan of boiling water, turn it down low and come back in 30 minutes.  Put some in a bowl along with your favorite toppings and enjoy the best porridge you'll find this side this side of Loch Lomond.

A BAG? Like down at the feed mill? No cylindrical boxes? Is there even a smiling Quaker on the bag?

I feel like my oat education was sorely lacking.

@Jay Barrow   Jay, are you gettin all this?

Ya hav ta eat sum oats!

But, for real, did you solve your problem?

@Stan Galat posted:

A BAG? Like down at the feed mill? No cylindrical boxes? Is there even a smiling Quaker on the bag?

I feel like my oat education was sorely lacking.

You jest, but until the late unpleasantness with the ICU a year ago, we bought the steel cut oats in the 25 lb bag. I've calmed down since then and just pick up a 24 oz bag of Bob's Steel Cut Oats when we need some. Lack of local options and shipping often figure heavily into our buying decisions since most things arrive here on a boat (+1 for Amazon Prime although Walmart is giving them a run run for the money).

Life is too short for bad coffee and mushy porridge.

In case you're inspired and need a big bag:

Great River Organic Milling, Oatmeal, Steel Cut Oats, Organic, 25-Pounds (Pack of 1) https://a.co/d/fWCpFX6

Ok so about oats. As a suburban white boy, born and raised, I like my oatmeal instant from the packet with like raisins or apple shards, or the maple brown sugar kind. I also like steel cut oats but have yet to manage to make these without blowing them out of the pot or bowl.

The best though? My straight-from-Japan mother in law makes good steel cut oats and garnishes with chirimen-jako (literaly: baitfish). The Japanese like their oatmeal savory and tangy! First time I was served this dish I assumed the little crunchy bits on top were crumbled bacon. Because that's what they taste like. At the time I was more concerned with the pickled sour plum jutting out of the top. All incredibly delicious.

Lousy in the radiator though.

This article kinda sums up the "coolant" stuff:

https://knowhow.napaonline.com/what-is-oat-coolant/

@DannyP posted:

This article kinda sums up the "coolant" stuff:

https://knowhow.napaonline.com/what-is-oat-coolant/

That is exactly the article that started my rant.

Was there something wrong with "good 'ol green"? I mean besides dogs drinking it?

Fun fact: ethylene glycol (automotive antifreeze) tastes a bit like Coca Cola, which has polypropylene glycol as a preservative. Polypropylene glycol is RV antifreeze.

@Stan Galat posted:

That is exactly the article that started my rant.

Was there something wrong with "good 'ol green"? I mean besides dogs drinking it?

Fun fact: ethylene glycol (automotive antifreeze) tastes a bit like Coca Cola, which has polypropylene glycol as a preservative. Polypropylene glycol is RV antifreeze.

Fun fact #2. RV antifreeze is the same as pool antifreeze.  The difference, RV antifreeze is $4 a gallon, pool antifreeze is $12 a gallon.

@LI-Rick posted:

Fun fact #2. RV antifreeze is the same as pool antifreeze.  The difference, RV antifreeze is $4 a gallon, pool antifreeze is $12 a gallon.

Fun Fact 3 - RV antifreeze is the same thing as Dowfrost radiant in-floor heat antifreeze except it's pre-diluted. Dowfrost sells for >$35/gal wholesale. The RV antifreeze is already diluted, so it figures out to about $8 for the equivalent.

Guess what I use?

Fun Fact #4: When your sister goes to the hardware store for pink antifreeze for her VW Passat, and she gets RV anti-freeze because there was a cognitive disconnect between her and the hardware clerk. It REALLY messed up her car.

Just because they're both pink doesn't mean they're equal.

I still can't figure out why she went to the hardware store for car parts. But I'm glad I didn't have to fix it. I know it was expensive but don't know exactly what had to be replaced.

She went to the hardware store for antifreeze in the same way I go to Kroger for oats - thinking, "how hard can this be anyhow?"

There he is - the smiling little quaker man, selling me oats.

Behold, 5 of the 415 different kinds of Quaker Oats brand oats on walmart.com. I'm not kidding: four hundred and fifteen kinds of Quaker Oats.

There are about that many different kinds of antifreeze.

@Michael Pickett posted:

Great River Organic Milling, Oatmeal, Steel Cut Oats, Organic, 25-Pounds (Pack of 1) https://a.co/d/fWCpFX6

That’s probably what Sprouts sells in their bulk foods bin. I go through about a 3# reusable produce bag a month. Now that I’ve got the instant pot recipe figured out, I eat them probably 4-5 mornings a week.

In season I’ve discovered a cup of blueberries, a teaspoon of maple sugar and some half and half is a good change from my usual maple syrup/cinnamon mix.

@Stan Galat posted:

Fun fact: ethylene glycol (automotive antifreeze) tastes a bit like Coca Cola, which has polypropylene glycol as a preservative. Polypropylene glycol is RV antifreeze.

IIRC, mRNA vaccines have PEG in them, too.  

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@Stan Galat posted:

.

Behold, 5 of the 415 different kinds of Quaker Oats brand oats on walmart.com. I'm not kidding: four hundred and fifteen kinds of Quaker Oats.

There are about that many different kinds of antifreeze.

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I don't know why this didn't occur to me earlier, but Stan, your example has brought the truth to light.

Notice that the box for each different type of oats is a different color, just like all the antifreezes are a different color.

The people responsible for all of this are the marketing dudes who sell ink cartridges for inkjet printers. They started it, and these other industries have just been slow to catch on.

If all cars used the same antifreeze, you could keep one five-gallon tub of brand X  in your garage and be done. Which is what we all did when the stuff was green.

By artificially cooking up different 'formula' of antifreeze for every model, you have to go out and buy a tiny little bottle for every car in your stable. And, per ounce, the stuff in little bottles always costs more.

My money says all the different color antifreezes are the same stuff, with some red dye #2 or whatever added.

The same is probably true for the oats. But by now, you've convinced yourself that one 'flavor' tastes different than the others.

And check this out. For years, the Quaker Oats dude was this guy:

I think he left in disgust when the new marketing operation took over. That guy on your packages is a marketing type if I ever saw one.

I guess I could be wrong about this, but it's just all starting to make too much sense.

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I've always been a hot cereal/oatmeal fan, and backpacking through the South Pacific- New Zealand- Australia on our honeymoon in 1988 we carried quick oats for an easy breakfast in hostels and caravan parks (campgrounds).  Make it with water, add a single serving of fruit yogurt (available from almost any grocery or corner store) and breakfast was done!  I still do oatmeal for breakfast 2-3 times a week with raspberry yogurt (Beth says there's too much sugar in most yogurts and they're not good for me, but sugar is an important food group, as evidenced by the handful of chocolate chips I just finished as an after breakfast snack) with fresh raspberries, strawberries or blueberries mixed in.  At least my arteries are fairly clean...

And I don't care how you cut it- it's still oatmeal!

"And I don't care how you cut it- it's still oatmeal!"

Yeah, what's the big deal about "steel cut" anyway.  Somebody 'splain it to me, please.

@Lane Anderson posted:

"And I don't care how you cut it- it's still oatmeal!"

Yeah, what's the big deal about "steel cut" anyway.  Somebody 'splain it to me, please.

It's just less mushy and to my sophisticated peasant palate, is a bit more tasty. It's still just oatmeal and takes longer to cook (eg 30 min).

@Jay Barrow posted:

The last several drives, I’ve had to jump the car to get it to turn over. Is this likely a bad starter?

Jay

I am a bit late, but I had a similar issue for a few years that eventually led to a dead starter.  Changed the started and have not had the issue since.  So all the above suggestions were not tried but contemplated and I kept a charger on the battery but eventually, and thankfully the started DIED.  and my issue was solve with a starter.  I guess I did not do enough testing but in the end the culprit was found.   Maybe a Grand Slam was in the making.

@IaM-Ray posted:

I am a bit late, but I had a similar issue for a few years that eventually led to a dead starter.  Changed the started and have not had the issue since.  So all the above suggestions were not tried but contemplated and I kept a charger on the battery but eventually, and thankfully the started DIED.  and my issue was solve with a starter.  I guess I did not do enough testing but in the end the culprit was found.   Maybe a Grand Slam was in the making.

What the heck is wrong with you, Ray? We're talking about oatmeal on this thread!

@Lane Anderson posted:

"And I don't care how you cut it- it's still oatmeal!"

Yeah, what's the big deal about "steel cut" anyway.  Somebody 'splain it to me, please.

@Michael Pickett posted:

It's just less mushy and to my sophisticated peasant palate, is a bit more tasty. It's still just oatmeal and takes longer to cook (eg 30 min).

And there we have it - a rousing endorsement for somewhat less mushy gruel. "It has a consistency slightly less like paste". Five stars!

All I can say is that Quaker Oats has done a fabulous job of taking essentially indigestible horse feed and slicing the market so finely that they have 415 varieties on a national website.

There must be a significant difference to justify the effort, right?!?

... I mean... unless they're putting the same horse feed in differently colored (but otherwise identical) cylindrical boxes. But they'd never do that, right? They're QUAKERS after all^*.

_{*just like Richard (I'm not a crook) Nixon}

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Wasn't going to say anything about the, uh, 'product' itself.

I figured some people might actually like eating the stuff, and no sense stepping on toes, right?

But it's starting to look like no one does. Everyone seems to have their own special additive for disguising the taste — fruit, nuts, berries, Kahlua, whatever.

It appears to be eaten largely out of a sense of duty or obligation to prevent some terrible, unspoken but inevitable doom if it's not done. It's like changing engine oil or rotating tires.

My dad was a stern, authoritarian type. He grew up in the Depression and did not face life with mirth and optimism. Especially at breakfast.

In the winter, we were served bowls of steaming, grey stuff and ordered to eat it. There were no alternatives. You could apply raisins if desired, but you weren't leaving the table until the grey stuff itself was dispatched. Breakfast was not my favorite meal.

As a result, I've gone through the whole of my adult life never having touched oatmeal. If it's the only option, I go hungry that day. I have no intention of ever changing that.

Bon appetite, youse guys.

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@Sacto Mitch posted:

But it's starting to look like no one does. Everyone seems to have their own special additive for disguising the taste — fruit, nuts, berries, Kahlua, whatever.

It appears to be eaten largely out of a sense of duty or obligation to prevent some terrible, unspoken but inevitable doom if it's not done. It's like changing engine oil or rotating tires.

.

Mitch, when you eat a burger, is it just the patty? Or do you like a bun, tomato, lettuce, onions, pickles mustard and mayo, etc?

The difference between steel cut and flakes or rolled oats is that the oat kernel is cut into pieces in a grinder vs smashed flat between two rollers.

Oats are heart food , and yummy  But yes, pretty boring alone.
https://youtu.be/S0x4RxuNAno?si=Z6OHka1PpY27qcwg