Heater boxes

Folks here say to use nothing but real German heater boxes, so I went out and compared several by different manufactures. Already knew that german ones had more fins but never paid much attention (used to build buggies). There are some real cheap Brazilian made ones out there that basically 3 or four poorly formed fins. Next in line were the ones made in Denmark (Dansk I think) Nicely formed fines, built decently, about 8 fins or so but not very wide.

I say all this for information mostly, but I do have a question, where can I get some decent german boxes? Or will the denmark ones work ok?

Thanks,
Ben

I've got a pair of used German heater boxes for $50 + shipping

Glenn, hwat kind of shape are they in?

the best one's i've seen are from berg.
if you have a big motor and headers they flow better than stock.
if you have a stock motor and are looking for nos ones they're
hard to find.
i usually just go to swap meets and find rust free ones.
braze them if they need it and paint them with header paint.
since i live in phoenix they're around laying in piles
behind vw racers garages.
any members from Arizona?

Sounds like a cool side-business waiting for a taker......analyze how the German boxes are made and duplicate them (maybe even make them better), THEN make some with bigger tubes for our bigger engines. I agree that the ones from Asia and Brazil are pretty poor quality.

Wonder how big the market for really good German reproductions might be?

Gordon I had my stock heater boxes enlarges to 1 5/8" and it was a very difficult task. When the fabricator was finished he handed them to me and said, "don't ever bring me another set of heater boxes". He tried to use the old stock aluminum core and bore out the center. Not an easy task (did you know that one end of the aluminum core has square tubing?) The old, stock heater boxes are a work of art! I ended up with hollow boxes (as are Bergs), but the 2110 puts out enough heat.
Ron

Rats! Ron I was hoping your guy could do me a set of 1 3/4" heater boxes. You know, unless Gordon starts making them in his side business really soon. I just got off the phone with Darrin. He is telling me that after thinking about it and talking with some of the builders in California I should go with 1 3/4" exhaust. Smaller and I may end up loosing HP and gaining engine temp. Not a good trade off.

George, what is the diameter of your exhaust?

I like Henry's 1 1/2" exhaust and may talk to him about trying it on my engine. Darrin is going to lend me a 1 3/4" exhaust, and perhaps after getting used to it for a bit and learning how hot it runs, I can swap on Henry's system and see how it compares. It's not as nice as a dyno, but I don't have one of those. Maybe Jake can give me an opinion of exhaust size for a hipo 2332. It sure would be nice to have heat in the car and not the engine!

If that doesn't work, I guess I get heaters put in my seats. Either way Henry gets more business from me I guess, unless Gordon gets that side business cooking.

Those I have talked with support what Ron says about fins on heater boxes for bigger engines...they don't matter. The bigger engines put out enough heat that the boxes don't need fins.

Due to limited funds I am going with a stock motor. I thought about a used set and even found some halfway decent ones. But how in the world do get the old oil and stuff out of them without taking them apart? They also need the tips replaced.

Ben

ben, take glenn up on his offer, its a good deal. the stock box's
are far superior to aftermarket.
and you mentioned "tips need replaced", if your talking about
where they always rust at the exhaust exit they are repaired by
hammering a narrower fitting (restrictive) into the outlet not
exactly the best solution or seal.--good luck--bruce
ps---my .02 cents---i think when you go for too large of a
header in search of high rpm power gains, we sometime forget
that we should consider our actual (usual) driving habits.
too large and you'll loose the "snap" in the throttle.

Ron, give us some information on your new motor. You must be using some really big-valved heads to need a 1 3/4" inch header. The concern is that you don't lose too much low end power for the sake of more power at the top. But, Darren should know. He's built a lot of hi-pro motors.
Ron

I've never been a big heater box king (only had them on my '57 and then turned it into a dune buggy), but I do have a pair sitting in Chris' garage (my old place) that I can pull apart and look at how they're made. I would suspect that they could be duplicated, even on a larger tube scale but will have to see the insides before I can decide how easily.......besides, gives me another excuse to go visit Chris!

Gordon

Ron, the engine is a 2332 with 86b, 44x37.5 hand ported heads and intake manifolds, 48idfs, lightened, balanced, 9 to 1, etc. I agree that we need to watch we don't go too big, but Darrin, Mark H, etc say that 1 3/4 is not too big especially because I am interested in a powerband in the lower rpm range. Darrin runs 1 3/4 on his 2275 with 86c and IDAs but he races his car. I can't imagine I'll rev the engine above 6k very often. I don't know. I would like to hear what Jake thinks the right size exhaust is (and anyone who might know).

Sounds like it's going to be faaaasssssttt! What case did you go with?
Ron

New Magnesium, clearanced, pinned, etc. I liked the idea of aluminum, but a few guys are quietly saying the aluminum is unproven in the air cooled T1 application. I guess versus 50 years of magnesium use? Not exactly sure why. Some talk about rough castings and poor alloys. I talked to a number of builders, all of whom would use an alum case if I wanted, but most of whom, when asked, said they had mag cases in their own cars. The ones that had alum cases in their cars loved them. Part of that I think is the ability to get alum cases that were cast with lowered cam journals so they could run 86 or longer strokes. All that said, I think the VW world is moving to alum cases. Lots of you must know more than I do about this...comments?

Magnesium is 2/3 the weight of aluminum, but I don't know if this is a significant weight addition in car or not.

If I remember correctly, the alum case is lighter than the mag case. Is that right?

Aluminum cases are heavier. If I was having a T1 built right now, I'd still go with the Mag case, just because I'm not sure that all of the bugs have been worked out of the T1 aluminum cases. One aluminum case that I'd like to look at is a oxyboxer (originally wasserboxer) case converted to use T1 pistons,heads and shroud.
Ron