Heater boxes for merged exhaust?

This is my first post to the forum and I have several questions. My speedster has a 2005CC Gene Berg engine but with CB big valve heads, approx. 9:1, 42 Webers. I completed my car in 1992. Now, transferring to daughter in Colorado, a heater would be handy. When Gene was alive, I talked to him about creating heater boxes in combination with headers but I don't know if it ever happened. My headers are 1.5" dia. but could probably be 1.625"
Any information?
Thanks. I'll post a few more questions under the same header.
Dick Hollander

CB Performance markets 1 1/5" heater boxes and my local VW shop stocks 1 5/8" boxes so I'm sure that you will be able to locate what you need.
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=396

Thanks. I guess you mean heater boxes combined with headers which are very necessary for performance. Had sort of looked at CB but wasn't clear if they were actually headers.
Cheers,
Dick

Check out the link; the same ones for a better price; I just installed them in my engine.

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D6019

Tiger at A-1 is making big ehaust heater boxes. I know because I have some of his 1-5/8"units. I sent him a set of new heater boxes that I had laying around and he installed his 1-5/8 "J" tube.

It was an easy install with the engine out of the car. He uses a large/thick flange to keep things tight and free from heat induced warping at the heads and their use required some sheet metal triming. That would have been a bitch with the engine in the car.

I also had to take the engine w/heater boxes installed and the A-1 header to the muffler shop because the boxes angled away from the center and the exhaust header did not line up. This is a semi custom system and Tiger did not have my car/engine to fit things.

The Muffler shop applied some heat to the "J" pipes and pushed them toward the center and the header fits great and the heaters work decent.

It would be my guess that doing this, adding larger heater boxes will require some skills/heat and talent. I would not say this is a simple bolt on, no matter what a vendor may say. And it will, again in my opinion, be easier with the engine out.

Do any of these larger tubing Heater boxes have aluminum or any heat sink material attached to the tubing or inside of the heater boxes?

If they don't, does this "Tin Can" around a j-tube collect enough heat to be useful to heat interior or defrost windshield?
I'm talking about ambient temps in the 50's or below.

Thnx,
Greg

If I'm reading between the lines on this thread correctly, Greg is bringing up "the" question for anybody north of Memphis or so-- is real heat possible without major expense.

Here's the problem (to explain it to those of you in climates where 40 deg is "cold"): VW heat is pathetic in it's stock form, with everything working correctly. Stock ACVWs had really nice heater boxes with aluminum heat sincs to absorb as much heat as possible from the exhaust. They also had a thermostat set-up that bypassed air which would normally cool the engine, until it warmed up.

The good news is that hi-po engines produce more heat internally. The bad news is that it's really hard to extract the heat and put it in the cabin of the car. The last statement assumes that the car has a reasonably air-tight cabin-- most speedsters do not, and that's been discussed to death.

Anyhow-- most places where cold is an issue also have really hot days in the summer, and the bigger issue for the longevity and enjoyment of the car it building a bigger/better cooling system. I've got a DTM a Type 4 oil cooler, and a 96 plate remote cooler with a fan. I've got a Mocal 180 deg bypass plate for the cooler, and a 180 deg thermostat for the remote cooler fan. I run cool on a 100 deg day. Another factor to consider is that most hi-po engines bigger than 2L or so need 1-5/8 exhaust, engines with head work under 2L need 1-1/2 exhaust.

Oversized aftermarket heater boxes don't have heat sincs. Until Tiger at A1 started making 1-5/8 boxes, they weren't available at all for anyone without access to someone willing to fabricate them. Flanged 1-1/2 boxes have been available for some time. A few years ago, a guy named Ron O'Black from BC, Canada tried to make a 1-5/8 heater box with sincs, and gave up. Even nice 1-3/8" heater oxes WITH the sincs are getting to be harder to find-- on my 1776 JPS, I gave up and ordered some Chinese knock-offs from So-Cal.

The other thing working against decent heat from a heater box is the fact that it is outdoor air being heated and introduced to the cabin, and it's a long (cold) way from the heater box to the footwells. I'm in the HVAC business. it takes air that's 100 deg to even feel warm-- with as much air infiltration as a speedster has 120 deg would be nicer. If it's 20 deg outside, you are asking a heater box to raise the temperature of the air 100 deg, as it rushes through the box. Even WITH good heat sincs, fully warmed up, that's a tall order.

Good luck.

Anybody know what's involved with making one of these work?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/STEWART-WARNER-SOUTHWIND-VINTAGE-CAR-HEATER-VERY-NICE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34197QQihZ010QQitemZ200035726759QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

I've looked at this for months now, and come to the conclusion that anything larger than standard heat exchangers will pretty much be a waste of time.

The heat sinks were there for a reason - to exchange heat between the exhaust and the heating system. Without the heat sinks, the exchangers would appear to be a gesture at best. It seems a shame to compromise the engine build I want for the sake of heat/demist, which I suspect won't work anyway. I'm thinking of fitting a heated front screen (for demist) and wearing some warm clothes, until I get round to fitting a petrol heater.

I can't get enough of my speedster, but I don't think it's ever going to be a practical car. I ride a motorcycle in the middle of winter with suitable clothing, surely a speedy with the roof down will be warmer than a bike?

I could be wrong - let me know if I am ! otherwise I will go with J tubes or a full header.

The 1 1/2" boxes on my exhaust keep the car crispy warm in the weather we normally experience during Fall/Winter here. It is boosted by a 2 speed fan and has a lever to change the flow to defrost. As Stan mentioned, cabin sealing probably has a lot to do with it. I also think that the insulation provided by having different heat channels helps almost as much as the cabin sealing. Of course our "cold" is not the same as the cold in the upper midwest and northeast US, so my experience is not with the sustained bitter cold weather some of you may have. If I lived up there I think I would look into a gas heater like Stan has.

I believe there are some old threads on how to better insulate the VW system and also the installation of a booster fan.

I think I would look into an electric seat heat system on any Speedster (except the SoCal guys.) It makes a big difference in the comfort with the top up or down during cool weather. There are kits that I think could be installed in most Speedster type seats.

My 2 cents worth.

I'll let you know this winter, Jon. I don't have a roof at all. :)

Cory-

Will that Southwind work? I dunno', but I'd hate to find out that no, it didn't as my car burned to the ground.

A gas heater is like riding around with a bomb in your lap. I wanted the best thing I could get, brand new with as many safeties as possible. I want heat. I also want to keep this car for a LONG time, and my skin for even longer....

Stan, I don't even know where they used to put those things. It looks like it's finished enough in terms of appearance that it might go on the inside of the firewall, but I can't see running fuel lines in from outside. Maybe hanging it someplace on the backside of the rear seat would work?
Again, I don't have the foggiest idea. I'll look around for a photo of one 'in situ.'

Thanks to all for replying. I did find that Gene Berg has a header system with heater boxes. I haven't talked to them yet but it is relatively expensive so I presume its a full system with mufflers. I had talked to Gene about 1991 and discussed the idea of taking sets of the aluminum heat sinks and fabricating some sheet metal shrouds to surround the header pipes. He seemed to like the idea and perhaps that's what they've done.
I like the idea of an electric blower but here's another point Gene made:
He though the gas heater was one of the worst things VW ever did. Just didn't like it at all. Of course, he was quite opinionated! I see one of you guys is using hot oil for heating. I remember seeing those oil coolers advertised that went inside the vehicle with, I believe, a squirrel cage blower or dual blowers. Any success or comments?

In my case, I'm going to investigate Berg's headers and also see what Tiger means by heater boxes. That is, if they're fabbed for real headers. I begin to realize that my motor should probably have 1 5/8" tubing. It started with Berg heads by son Clyde with stock valve size and only about 7:1 comp ( I had to talk Gene into that when speccing the engine. He wanted the stock 6.6:1!). The car was just too slow for the ridiculous10K or so I had in the engine so I switched to some bigger valve 9:1 heads from CB. Thus, it probably needs a bigger exhaust, possibly why it runs a little warm on the highway.

Thanks to all for replying. I did find that Gene Berg has a header system with heater boxes. I haven't talked to them yet but it is relatively expensive so I presume its a full system with mufflers. I had talked to Gene about 1991 and discussed the idea of taking sets of the aluminum heat sinks and fabricating some sheet metal shrouds to surround the header pipes. He seemed to like the idea and perhaps that's what they've done.
I like the idea of an electric blower but here's another point Gene made:
He though the gas heater was one of the worst things VW ever did. Just didn't like it at all. Of course, he was quite opinionated! I see one of you guys is using hot oil for heating. I remember seeing those oil coolers advertised that went inside the vehicle with, I believe, a squirrel cage blower or dual blowers. Any success or comments?

In my case, I'm going to investigate Berg's headers and also see what Tiger means by heater boxes. That is, if they're fabbed for real headers. I begin to realize that my motor should probably have 1 5/8" tubing. It started with Berg heads by son Clyde with stock valve size and only about 7:1 comp ( I had to talk Gene into that when speccing the engine. He wanted the stock 6.6:1!). The car was just too slow for the ridiculous10K or so I had in the engine so I switched to some bigger valve 9:1 heads from CB. Thus, it probably needs a bigger exhaust, possibly why it runs a little warm on the highway.

You'll need to talk to them on the phone as supply on those type of items (exhaust systems, cranks, cams, etc.) is inconsistent; sometimes they're in stock and sometimes you have to wait to get them. It seems that after Gene's passing their business isn't quite the same.

I now have talked to them and yes, Ricardo, it does seem more inconsistent. However, they have a complete merged header system with heater boxes built into them. The 1.5 " was about 470.00. Went up to 700 something for 1.625" as the guy said they have to completely fabricate that unit. We'll see.......

As you know their quality is second to none...as they say you get what you pay for. I've been buying some of their stuff and installing it on my engine to upgrade it and the quality is just unreal. Compare that to the Oriental crap we're getting these days; it's like night and day.