help about full flow

Is it possible to set a full flow oil system without drilling the block?
if it is which system would be the best
if it is not; does anyone have a diagram showing the exact location of the bore?

To have an efective full flow system you have to drill and tap the block.

The location: if your looking at the front of the oil pump follow the oil vain that goes up to the left from the left side of the oil pump. At the point where the oil vain flattens out you'll see a cap that seals the block (kind of like a freeze plug) this is the spot you drill and tap. The tap size will be 3/8 NPT. You'll also need to plug the side of the oil pump where the oil would be normly pumped through. To do this you'll need to remove the pump from the block. THis would be a good time to install a larger volume pump. The best way to plug the pump is to tap it to a 10x1.5 thread and install a threaded plug. Make sure the plug does not stick out into the gears or past the outside edges of the pump. You can use standard barb fittings when plumming the oil lines, however I like to use AN fittings so that serviceing is made easier.

I hope this helps.


This whole thing should be done when the engine is built for best results.

Actually, you can achieve "full flow" by simply up-grading your oil pump. And, the engine does not need to come out of the car.
Try this: http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=197

That's a pretty cool gadget for oil full flow! I learn something new everytime I visit this site!

Ernie,

Great Find !

Thanks,

TC

Here's a shot of the pump installed my old motor.

Erine, Notice I said "effective full flow". The pump cover you are recommending is OK for a 1600cc or smaller engine, but when you go to a large displacement engine that need good volume and presure those covers do not cut it.

Ernie,

How's the fit back there? Even with the increased thickness in the pump cover where the barbs attach, it still looks like it clears the tin and everything pretty well.

Was it an easy clean bolt-in? What's your experience with it so far?

On one of the engines I have the pump with the weird EMPI cover with a filter directly attached to it (it looks pretty much like this one: http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D5385 ) and everyone says to get rid of it. I guess that it flows badly and causes the oil to get even hotter than usual because the filter is to close to the exhaust. Just what I'm looking for in a replacement oil pump ? ! ? ! ? Yours looks like a neat alternative.

Well TE... It worked just fine on my 1915 motor.
As I recall, I had to yank the pulley and of course, the tin.
I did need to get an oil pump puller. A simple lil' tool that cost me about 6 bucks.
Give Daniel at CB a call, He can tell ya all about it!

Kevin, I agree with you about the "effective" part. All the major engine builders drill and tap the engine for bigger displacement performance engines. It is really the right way to do it, they don't do it for no reason.

"Is it possible to set a full flow oil system without drilling the block?"
That is the question that I answered.
Obviously, the drill & tap method is superior. Heck, that's what I run on my stroker!
Cheers!

My CB Performance 2110 turn-key motor actually came with this oil pump:
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1616
And yes, the oil does return thru the case.

anybody have any experience using one of these as the return option? Seems easy enough to install without drilling the block.

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C12%2D3059
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VW-BUGPACK-AS41-FULL-FLOW-OIL-RETURN-ADAPTER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1713Q2em153Q2el1262QQcategoryZ6755QQihZ024QQitemZ370065974648QQtcZphoto

Alan Merklin!!!!

Didn't you have something like that pressure relief return thingie above on one of your engines?

I don't have a pressure-relief-return thingie on my engine - but I do have one on the back of my pants!

OR...
You could use one of these. The pump body is designed to direct oil flow through the outlet port of the pump cover then to the motor through the inlet port of the pump cover.
I've used these without problems for lots of years.

http://www2.cip1.com/PhotoGallery.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D5386E

Plumbing for this external oil pump system is comparable to any oil system that includes external filters/coolers.

Greg

Neat touch Greg ! !

Leading us all right on back to item linked in Ernie's original post without missing a beat . . . I feel like I'm stuck on a Mobius Strip.

Yeah, except that Ernie's side of your Mobius strip has it at $59 bucks (CB), while Greg's side shows it at $52 (CIP1).

Now, who's got the better delivery??

Or.....

http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=ECO0027&cartid=

" Yeah, except that Ernie's side of your Mobius strip has it at $59 bucks (CB), while Greg's side shows it at $52"



Considerable loss.

Possibly due to friction.

Entropy I expect, or possibly a contracting universe.


Whenever you're considering things of a Automotive/Time/Space nature, there's bound to be some degree of loss. This time it manifested itself in coinage, other times you'll find a measurable loss of energy, inertia, or mass.

Of course, it really gets tricky when a loss occurs over the course of the single circuit of the the strip and the item and original value remains as it was at the outset. A change in something other than the item or it's value

You.....ahhhhh.....In between projects, or what?

Have you been trolling on the stuff coming out of CERN?

Sure, it's nice that they're zipping Photons around this way and then that way (delicately avoiding any particle collisions for now), but later on, when they get that puppy really cooking, one of the things they'll be doing is smashing particles together with the intent to create matter from energy, and another cool off-shoot is the creation of so-called "Dark Matter" which us oldies know as "Anti-Matter".

Wicked cool stuff, because anti-matter is, supposedly, VERY prevalent in the universe, even though we can't actually see it or prove it's there (other than mathematically), and the mathematicians tell us that
(a.) anti-matter coming into contact with our version of matter (ANY matter) would cause an instantaneous annihilation (calm down - that only means that it releases all of it's energy) and
(b.) it takes an infinitesimally small amount of both forms of matter to release a HUGE amount of energy. How much? Well, supposedly several grams of this "stuff" could power Manhattan for a week. A small paper clip weighs about a gram.

A fraction of a gram could equate to a 10 kiloton Nuke in energy release.

Think about it. It could provide amazing amounts of very low cost energy to benefit Mankind, or it could be our downfall.

But.......They said that about the Nuclear Age, too.

Flash Gordon, signing off.......

Hey Flash, I'm pretty sure that dark matter and anti-matter are not the same thing. Dark matter is what physicists use to explain the lack or visible and/or otherwise detectable matter (and energy) to account for the acceleration of space since the big bang, along with other phenomena. Anti-matter is like regular matter, but (I believe) the quarks that make up the anti-protons and other particles spin in the opposite direction.

If that sounded like I knew what I was talking about, boy have I got y'all fooled. I remember about 10% of what I see on The Discovery Channel and The Science Channel.

This has got to be a record. I just a few posts we've drifted from oil pumps to dark matter. Hey, oil is dark when it's dirty. There IS a connection!

uhhh......whadya say?
The only part of that I understood was Jim has something on his pants that releases pressure on the back of his pants.


Slight hijack although somewhat relevant to this thread - I did a search on oil cooler fans to find out where the best place to mount the fan is. I see some have them up front and some have them in the back. I would imagine up front would be easier, but the oil has to travel farther. The back is a little more cramped, and possibly warmer, but the oil moves through more effeciently. Any thoughts on where I should put mine?

guys
how about removing the standart oil cooler and installing an external cooler, would not that be full flow? so there would be no need to change the pump or bore the case etc. what do you say?

I seem to remember that Gene Berg felt this was a no-no, along with a number of other people. The OEM VW cooler works pretty well, especially when all of the OEM tinwork is still used, so the external coolers are added in addition to the existing one. Also, when you remove the OEM oil cooler, Cylinders 3 & 4 actually run HOTTERin head temperature, not lower as many suspect.

I had the adapter for the original cooler to remove it and run two big DeRale coolers externally and learned enough before I made the change to go back to the original with a single, full flowed external cooler. That combination is working well for a lot of us.

I think the reason more people don't mount their cooler up front is just the complexity of plumbing everything together over that distance (tubes, hoses, location, quantity of oil needed, etc.) The racers mount them up front often, so you know it's probably a better placement, but it's just easier to mount one conveniently in the rear.

I picked up a neat little piece that fits between the case and stock cooler. Takes the oil off to a remote filter/cooler, back through the stock cooler and down through the original return. Just a smallish sandwich adapter.

It came off of a FV engine but works PISSA on a street car (it's currently on the little 1835 stroker.) The top of the shroud/oil cooler hood just needed to be cut and raised an inch or so and welded back up.

Kinda cool in a non-super conductor way.


Oh. It's surely been done before, but what about running a remote oil cooler into the interior as a source of additional heat? Would the temp of the oil in the cooler radiate enough heat/hot air to make a difference? Possibly something set up in the rear to warm things up a bit? Wouldn't take much routing at all to get two hoses into the rear of the interior and through a nice trim-line cooler. Kinda like a really thin rectangular "wall of warmth" . . .


Maybe or maybe not, YYYOOOOOOUUUUUUUU decide.

Gordon, you are right about Gene Berg, but he was not the only one who said that. I think it had something to do with stiction or friction or whatever. Some Spyder guys have run front coolers but usually use AN10 or 12 to reduce pressure loss.

Team, I guess you could use a cooler for a heater, but I think you would want to put it in a box and use a blower of some sort.

I don't see why someone has yet to mount a fan forced oil cooler in the interior, add a cable controlled in line "heat valve" it will work the same as a OEM heater core. Add the "full flow pumphttp://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=197
...... route the oil line from the full flow pump thru a filter then to the oil cooler "heater" and the return line back to the full flow pump.
OK my wheels are turning as I type this... why not just install an aftermarket self contained fan forced hearer core box ( NAPA etc) and hook the oil lines to it? ~Alan

Doesn't a Subaru have a nicely small heater box? Put a small oil cooler inside instead of the water core and, Voila! Cold air in, warm air out! Would it provide enough heat? Well, most watercooled engines are running 175-190 degree water, and an air cooled would have 175-10 degree oil. What's the diff?

You could easily mount the heater box between the back seat and the fireall - there's PLENTY of room back there.

I just found a MAJOR source of wasted heat, which could EASILY be routed into the interior.

You all know that little flattened "tube" of metal that attaches to the box where the stock oil cooler lives and funnels the oil heated air out of the engine compartment? The one that passes through the ovoid hole in the "front" tin that fits over where the engine and trans bolt together?

MAN is that air nice and hot ! ! ! Pop rivet a length of flexible aluminum ducting to that and route it into the existing driver's side heater tube, or just have it pipe air directly into the interior through a hole nicely covered with a small speaker grill.

No need for a plenum/collector box or additional fan or anything.

Check it out, there's a TON of wasted clean hot air being wasted.

Connect for the Fall and Winter, disconnect for the Spring and Summer.

Done ! ! ! !

I just checked my stash and found a nifty little heater core and fan assembly that is fitted into a cool plenum. Came from a Spitfire but would easily fit under any dash. And THEN I found a circular unit in krinkle brown that has two semi circular doors with ivory knobs that both open up like an eight inch round television cabinet from the fifties. It's an old interior heater unit from a late30's Oldsmobile and it's PISSA. I mean it looks like something that would come as a stock accessory.

BUT THEN, I hit Ebay and typed in car heater and you wouldn't believe all of the wonderfully shaped and styled interior heater units that came up. Some looked like tiny truck grills from the 40's while others looked like art deco radios, some like they came from Alternate Earth and others from 1950's LAND. All of them would be just wonderful under the dash or in the far passenger's footwell of a Speedster. I'm totally gonna fit my Coupe with a hot oil based heater. In a closed car, coupled with the stock heat, I'll be serving umbrella drinks all through February and March, probably have to wear a sarong.


Oh, and I figured that an oil cooler and fan assembly might even be hidden in a nice piece of luggage placed on the rear "seat" . . . or MAYBE, in a boom box using the speaker grills as hot air exits. Or hidden in a very large straw hat with the hot air blowing through the perforated crown of the hat.




Then there's the old fake bag of laundry trick. A man can hide a LOT in a fake bag of laundry . . .

Hmmm... Spoken like someone who knows, TC.

Or someone who lived in Back Bay or the "Fens" in the 60's......

Many years ago I think there was a system offered that mounted under the rear window on a Beetle that provided heat from the warm oil.