Hey John Leader. Nice exhaust!

John, I like your new set up. I'm looking into changing out my system as well on the advice of my buddy Joel Schlotz. I'd like to ask you a couple of questions: I'm sure the engine is breathing a lot better, what about engine temps? Does A1 offer a system with heater boxes?
Thanks John. How's your grandbaby?

Terry,

I can answer these questions, if you will allow me to butt in. Tiger from A1 can make pretty much whatever you ask for. I have a really big 1-5/8" sidewinder header without heater boxes that he built for me when I intended to put a 2110 in my JPS. I fitted the exhaust to my car before installing the current TriMil setup to check fit, etc.- the fit and finish is exact.

Before I decided on what I have, I talked with Tiger about using Dansk 1-1/2" heater boxes on a 1-1/2" exhaust- he's happy to work with whatever you want. If you want heater boxes, you'll need to supply them to him, and he will weld new (better) flanges on, and build the exhaust to fit up to them. Lots of places sell the big heater boxes, so you should be able to get a really nice 1-1/2" system.

Berg is the only place that sells a 1-5/8" heater box, and they are as rare as hen's teeth, and as precious as gold. When I talked to them, they wouldn't seperate the boxes from their exhaust.

I'm going with a gas heater in the new build for several reasons (its COLD out here in the fall and spring), but the one of them is that I wanted the larger exhaust, and the price difference between a Espar gas heater and a pair of 1-5/8" heater boxes wasn't that great- and the gas heater actually makes heat.

For "California heat" I'd do the Dansk 1-1/2" heater boxes and an A1 sidewinder exhaust on any engine up to 2110. I need more heat than that. You'll love the setup.

Since Stan is the one who turned me on to Tiger at A-1 in the first place, he's the perfect one to answer your question, Terry. And he did!
I love the exhaust. Without the heater boxes the 2332 is breathing much easier. We took a long run up to Camarillo and back yesterday and the oil temp gauge never went above 180!
Two problems (1) no heat, so Pam just brings a hooded sweatshirt or blanket for those early morning drives; (2) the system hangs pretty low on my lowered car - got to take it really slow in/out of driveways. But it sounds good and it's really improved the performance noticably!

Stan & John,
Thanks for the info.
I am running a 2110. Will the 1 1/2" header with heater boxes be acceptable for my engine? I have to have heat or I'll lose my right seater.
Stan, when will you let us know the details of the new build?

BTW, what is the contact info for A1?
Thanks

Terry,

You should be fine with a 1-1/2" exhaust on a 2110, 1-5/8" would be better, but then you but up against the heater box problem.

Contact information for A1 can be found at:

www.cal-look.com/ads/scripts/a1.html

Good luck!

When I had a 1 5/8 inch exhaust system made for my 2110 I also had the fabricator build a new set of 1 5/8 heater boxes out of an old pair of German boxes that I found. This was NOT any easy task, and my fabricator said he would NEVER build another set of 1 5/8 heater boxes. I really wanted to bore out the stock aluminum-finned core, but it couldn't be saved. That was one expensive exhaust system!

Terry, 1 1/2 is too small for a 2110 - check with Henry at IM, they used to make 1 5/8 heater boxes.

Karl, Talk to me!
If you would Like to email me about the heater box modification I would greatly appreciate it. However, perhaps it is useful information for the site.
My car came with stock heater boxes and a 1-3/8" exhaust system. I'm curious as to how many of us are running bigger motors with stock exhaust?
I have done all the modifications; remote oil cooler, oil sump, etc., and I'm still running around 210-230 in 65F weather.
I want a heater, but I need a cooler running motor.
Thanks

Terry,

As stated a 1

Terry,

The details are on my other computer I will look this evening and post. I will try and get some pictures up as well. The bus solution is what the performance VW guys have been using for quite some time.

With the bus exchangers and a 1 5/8 exhaust I'm running about 195 degrees unless it's a really hot day then it will creep up to 225 after a long spirited run. The remote oil cooler should be installed next month and I expect to drop 10 or 15 degrees.

Karl

Dale

I thought everything was fine temperature wise until I put the new engine in along with a calibrated oil pressure gauge and a calibrated temperature gauge. Installed a new sending unit in the block and put a second sending unit in the sump connected to the original VDO gauge. The result is that the VDO gauge reads fine even on a very hot day. (In July and August its not unusual to have several weeks above 100 degrees.) Only when the engine temperature gets over 200 degrees will the VDO start to register any change. My conclusion is that the placement of the sending unit has as much to do with your temperature readings as any thing else.

Karl

I have a 2165 and a 1 3/8" header and heater boxes and the car runs great. The Sacramento Valley gets into the 100s several times in the summer making it a bit hot on the ol'bald spot but I still drive the car in that temperature and it is fine. The engine would most likely be peppier and maybe run cooler with the 1 1/2" or 1 5/8" but come on guys, these are not race cars. Keep the car in tune, keep the speed under 90mph(when it is hot outside), and quit worrying what "experts" say; you will drive the car frequently and enjoy it alot more.

A 1 3/8" exhaust system is designed for a 1600cc engine. An engine that is 30% larger will not breath properly with an exhaust system of that size, especially if it has any kind of a performance cam.

Now that you talk about exhaust system diameters vs. engine displacements; is there such a thing as a rule of thumb to know which diameter would be right for my 1776 cc?

Terry

My exhaust was custom made by Art Thraen. I do not think that he still makes systems but worth a try. It is a ceramic coated 1 5/8" "merged" exhaust system with 1 5/8" heater boxes 2 1/2" Dynaflow muffler and pipes. The heater boxes are from a VW bus my understanding is the 1971 / 1972 bus boxes are the best choice for this type of conversion as they are larger, put out more heat and are easier to adapt for the 1 5/8 tubes. The pictures did not turn out well. I will try to take some more tomorrow. I hope this helps

Karl

See next post:

Terry-

As I said, 1-5/8" would be best on a 2110- It's what I've got for my new engine. That being said, good luck on 1-5/8" heater boxes. I've tried, and as I see it, you have these options- plead with someone to build you some (get out your check-book), buy the entire Berg exhaust (get out a bigger check-book), or buy a gas heater (GIVE the man your entire check-book).

Or... you can compromise with 1-1/2" boxes. No- they aren't ideal, but most things in life are a compromise from the ideal. I'd get the 1-1/2" exhaust, the heater boxes- and take the $650 (or more) you save not buying Berg's entire (ugly) exhaust, and buy a 356 pulley and a welded/balanced fan to better cool your heads. Then I'd take Dale's advice and "be happy, and drive".


Karl-

I remember that George said that the boxes on you car (his first IM) were the last ones Art was ever going to do. I also recall that George spared NO expense to do something the best possible way. "Compromise" was not in his vocabulary, or billfold. I suspect that not everyone has pockets deep enough to get rare heater boxes custom modified, and my advise was based on things that are readily available.

Stan,

You are correct. I have been researching exhaust systems for my 1.8 Type IV. I have come to the conclusion that the bus boxes are the way to go if you want heat, lots of it and a performance exhaust. George found someone to make them so did Ron O

Ricardo,

Sorry I almost forgot, I

Aircooled.Net advertises custom made 1 5/8

Thanks for the info everybody.
I called Art Thraen today. He will not be producing any 1-5/8" heater boxes until September at the earliest. He quoted about $500.00 for the boxes and around $1100.00 for a complete system.
However, he felt that 1-1/2" heater boxes would probably be adequate depending on the type of heads and valves that were used on my engine.
That being said, unless there's a case of having too big of an exhaust system, I think that going the 1-5/8" system would make the most sense as long as it could be done for a reasonable price.
Karl, how do you 'modify' the bus heater boxes?

Terry, I am told by people that know a lot more about these things than I do that you can, in fact, have too large a tubing size on your header.

It goes something like this, if the header tubing is too large it will rob your low end torque, too small it degrades the high end HP, so you need to speak to someone like the guy at A1, Art T. or Pat D. and have them tell you the ideal tubing size for your motor.

I think I would only take advice from someone that actually makes a living in the field.

Terry,

That

Thanks Bill & Karl,
I guess I'll contact Art again and find out the head/ valve info from JPS. If I need the big boy stuff I guess I'll get in line for Art's system.
Karl, I found bus heater boxes at The Bus Depot website. They were $90.00 a side. Is there a problem using the new boxes?

David,
I went to aircooled.net and could only find 1-1/2" heater boxes. Where did you find the 1-5/8"?

Terry,
www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/coinfo/aboutus.htm
Scroll down to our products

was mistaken about IM offering 1 5/8" boxes - I had and old note in my file indicating they did.
Henry from IM, said that SoCal Imports will be producing 1 5/8" boxes soon.

I have a 2275 SCAT motor in my wide body. I looked for 6 months for a system that used heater boxes, a concession to the lady in my life. I finally had A-1 build a really great 1 5/8" system with heater boxes modified by them. You can see the system in my photos before I had it ceramic coated. Tiger will build it for around $900, with the boxes.
He's great and the product is first class. Quit looking for those big boxes and build them.

I heard back from Art Thraen. "Heads 40 X 35.5 will be fine with
1-1/2" boxes. Heads 42 X 37 or bigger will require 1-5/8" boxes. Also porting is taken into account".
Still waiting to hear back from JPS regarding my heads.
David, aircooled.net does not sell 1-5/8" boxes, only 1-1/2" according to the email they sent me.
Dennis, that seems like the way to go with Tiger at A1. John Steele quoted a price of $600.00 from A1 for the exhaust so the boxes are a steal at $300.00. Looks like I'll go that way if my heads are larger than 40 X 35.5.
Thanks for all the info.

Terry,

I'll bet a donut your heads are 40x 35.5, which is great news. You'll love it. BTW, $600 is a good price on the exhaust- John isn't making much. My full 1-5/8 system was $650 dealing direct with Tiger, no tailpipe, and freight included.