Holley Fuel Level Sender Unit, PT#19-250 - Will NOT work on a VW Fuel Tank

Sorry for the misguided info as I posted the link on 4/6 not knowing of that issue.....

Sorry you are having these troubles Larry.  I know how frustrating stuff like this can be.

Just for arguments sake, do we really need a fuel gauge?  (agreed we all have our different levels of OCD or we wouldn't be in this hobby ) I daily drove my beetle for 2 years (granted that was in college and a lot of my commute was shoe leather) The gas gauge never worked during my ownership..  it didn't even attempt to move like it even "wanted to work".   Additionally, the odometer and speedo didn't work. (only the idiot lights worked) I was working at fixing bigger problems like brakes, engine & stereo (priorities must be maintained- Look good, run good, stop good & sound good) & I never got around to fixing those 2 things.  Only ran out of gas twice.  Both time I felt I was really close (to running out) and had the gas station en-route already planned.   Both times I coasted into said planned gas station. So in the time of ownership I had learned to estimate really well or was just lucky.  (I'll take either)

simple strategy was:

1. Before I started a trip, say from Raleigh to western NC, I'd fill up.  Then just guesstimated miles... as long as it was less than 200 miles I figured I was good to go.

2. for daily driving, I just used a weekly fill-up strategy--  usually amounted to $4-5  (this was the later half of the 80s and gas was <$1/gal.)  

later when I started riding motorcycles which had no gas gauge at all.. i didn't suffer range anxiety as I had the experience from the beetle & there was a fuel petcock with 2 pick-ups.. one higher than the other. It was pretty simple, when you "run-out" on the main pick-up, simply switch to the (res) pickup and get another 30ish miles to find a station.  again same strategy as above but with a reserve switch as a cushion.  never ran dry with this scenario.

NOW, the electric car range anxiety is real for me, not in the daily driver sense because if I plug it in every night, I'd be able to do the daily commute/errands easily, no anxiety.  My trigger happens on trip range stopping for gas is a 5 minute & pee break opportunity where charging a BEV is a WHOLE different kind of stop.

Hey Alan, NO problem......they never mentioned this issue/requirement in any of their specifications (at least that I saw). I got to admit that if it did work in my application that it would a good thing........

@Wrenn Smith posted:

Sorry you are having these troubles Larry.  I know how frustrating stuff like this can be.

Just for arguments sake, do we really need a fuel gauge?  (agreed we all have our different levels of OCD or we wouldn't be in this hobby ) I daily drove my beetle for 2 years (granted that was in college and a lot of my commute was shoe leather) The gas gauge never worked during my ownership..  it didn't even attempt to move like it even "wanted to work".   Additionally, the odometer and speedo didn't work. (only the idiot lights worked) I was working at fixing bigger problems like brakes, engine & stereo (priorities must be maintained- Look good, run good, stop good & sound good) & I never got around to fixing those 2 things.  Only ran out of gas twice.  Both time I felt I was really close (to running out) and had the gas station en-route already planned.   Both times I coasted into said planned gas station. So in the time of ownership I had learned to estimate really well or was just lucky.  (I'll take either)

simple strategy was:

1. Before I started a trip, say from Raleigh to western NC, I'd fill up.  Then just guesstimated miles... as long as it was less than 200 miles I figured I was good to go.

2. for daily driving, I just used a weekly fill-up strategy--  usually amounted to $4-5  (this was the later half of the 80s and gas was <$1/gal.)  

later when I started riding motorcycles which had no gas gauge at all.. i didn't suffer range anxiety as I had the experience from the beetle & there was a fuel petcock with 2 pick-ups.. one higher than the other. It was pretty simple, when you "run-out" on the main pick-up, simply switch to the (res) pickup and get another 30ish miles to find a station.  again same strategy as above but with a reserve switch as a cushion.  never ran dry with this scenario.

NOW, the electric car range anxiety is real for me, not in the daily driver sense because if I plug it in every night, I'd be able to do the daily commute/errands easily, no anxiety.  My trigger happens on trip range stopping for gas is a 5 minute & pee break opportunity where charging a BEV is a WHOLE different kind of stop.

Wren, you are correct BUT being an inquisitive person and one who is always striving to make things easier/better for myself (and a tinkerer). In this case I thought it might be a "no brainer" type project. One of my friends suggested that I pursue the idea of making an "adapter" for the sender unit that allows it to shoot straight down, I thought about it and if I were in my younger years, I may have done it, but these days I'm always "seeking the path of least resistance". I will just have to put up with the readings from my original floater gas gauge. 

You mentioned motorcycles, never had the chance to get/own one, although my friends had them. I tended to lean towards things that had 4-wheels....ha, ha

@Larry Scislowicz

It sounds a lot like Holley is sourcing this gizmo from a third party and branding it as a Holley product.  That might explain why there was no one in tech support who knew anything about their product but, even then, they should have at least a few people who can speak to product issues.   Just makes sense and good customer support, right?

This might explain why those young ladies down in Florida who rebuild carburetors have expanded from just Edelbrock rebuilds to taking on Holleys, too.  

Dang. I was going to post a fuel gauge issue and here’s another thread already underway.

Spyder’s fuel gauge got wonky last week, reading half(ish) after a full fillup. This is a stock Bug sender fit to the stock Bug tank mounting hole, feeding to a 914 gauge calibrated for it by Hartmut at North Hollywood Speedo. Since its installation it had never quite read “full,” a quirk I put down to the orientation and fill hole of the tank in the Spyder.

But “empty” seemed accurate enough, allowing for the bouncy needle.

Not so now. A month ago I ran dry with 1/8 tank showing. It took 9 gallons—as opposed to the usual 8. Seemed to read as normal then.

I now have a working trip odo so I can make due. But feeling a bit miffed all the same.

So what’s the best plan? I’m thinking a Ghia sender. Anyone have relevant experience or advice?

I am using a Ghia sender with a 914 gauge calibrated by Hartmut at Palo Alto.

Isn't it interesting that there is a Hartmut at both places?

Someday he's gonna get caught.

@Larry Scislowicz posted:

I'm always "seeking the path of least resistance". I will just have to put up with the readings from my original floater gas gauge.

You mentioned motorcycles, never had the chance to get/own one, although my friends had them. I tended to lean towards things that had 4-wheels....ha, ha

That's where I was going with it.  I too like the challenge of making something better.. but at how much effort?

keep thinking of the speedy as a 'motorcycle with 4 wheels & a frunk', should keep the perspective about right.    👍

@edsnova, by "Someday he's gonna get caught." do you indicate that you think it is the same Hartmut? They are two different Hartmuts.

Pretty sure Ed is just making a funny.

Hartmut was a common German name for males born between 1930-1960.

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@Larry Scislowicz posted:

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...but these days I'm always "seeking the path of least resistance"...

If you're seeking the path of least resistance, Larry, you are right to go with the original VW sender.

That's exactly how they work.

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@edsnova posted:

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...A month ago I ran dry with 1/8 tank showing...

...Anyone have relevant experience or advice?

Ed, what the devil were you doing driving around with 1/8 tank showing?

As you discovered, you'll shoot your eye out.

The fuel gauges in any of these cars — no matter who did the so-called 'calibration' — are there solely for their amusement value. Like many other things that light up, twitch, or go 'beep' they are not to be used for purposes of navigation.

I feel like I am pressing my luck if I'm still driving when the 'gauge' is anywhere below half.

You hoonigans in your fancy pants Spyders are a wild bunch.

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And I don't even have a fuel gauge in my car - just a little green light that starts flashing when the fuel is getting low.

So far, I have never been stranded anywhere.

I found out the hard way on my first Spyder. That one had a stock Bug sender and Brazilian VDO gauges. When the gauge read 1/4 it was (past) time to get gas.

One time I waited about ten more miles. I went around a sharp corner and coasted to the side of the road, out of fuel. Then I bought a 1 gallon can and kept it empty in the frunk. I used it once when I ran out again. From that point I'd just get gas when I got below the half-tank reading, as that was REALLY about 1/4 tank. It works out to about 150-160 miles, adding 6 to 7 gallons to fill it. On long trips I could go 200 miles because the mileage was awesome on the highway.

Now I have a stock Bug tank and sender, but fancy-pants Speedhut gauges. The gauge is calibrated to full and empty. It is accurate and does not jump around like the kids at a rave.

BUT, I still go 150 miles and fill up...

@edsnova posted:

So what’s the best plan? I’m thinking a Ghia sender. Anyone have relevant experience or advice?

@Sacto Mitch posted:

The fuel gauges in any of these cars — no matter who did the so-called 'calibration' — are there solely for their amusement value.

The best plan?

Take the "combi" gauge out, send it to Harmut (your choice which one) and have him put in an oil pressure gauge in its place. It'll be "not cheap", but you'll know what you have in the bearings.

I've never understood the fixation with a gauge that never works correctly at the expense of one everybody should have.

If you want something other than your odometer, do what Henry did with Bob's (and my) car - carefully take the sender apart, pull all the windings out of the pot except for the ones that the wiper will hit at full drop on the float, put it back together and wire it to a dash light. The windings and wiper stop working like a pot and start working like a switch.

It's dead-nuts reliable and not prone to interpretation. YMMV.

My fuel gauge seems to work like the fuel gauge in any of my other cars. Maybe it is not quite as linear.

After futzing with mine 3 or 4 times over the past twenty years, I have gotten it to the point where I can live with it.  It takes half of forever to get off of “4/4” when I fill it, then drops like a stone to just under “2/4”, then takes a long time to get down to “R” as it bounces around between “R” and “1/4”.  But I have sweated it out down there when the needle doesn’t get up to “1/4” much and I’ve made it to a gas station where I pumped in 7+ gallons.  

Let’s face it, the gas gauge in these cars is more of a suggestion than anything else.

The stock Bug gauge on Bridget never gave grief. Has anyone ever fitted the v1br4tor from one of those?

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A few more thoughts on fuel management.

With any car that spends a lot more time parked than a daily driver, keeping the tank topped up as much of the time as possible is a good idea. The more gas in the tank, the less air. The less air, the less water vapor to condense and gather in the low spots of your tank, fuel lines, and carburetors.

So, I just make it a habit to top up at the last station I pass on the way back to the barn every time I take the car out — even if it's only been 20 miles.

This also makes it easier to compute gas consumption which I monitor pretty closely. A sudden drop in gas mileage can be the first clue that something's going wrong with the fuel system, carb tuning, timing, plug wires, etc.)

Remember folks, there are no computers here to track that stuff for you and to light things up on the dash. We're back in the 1950s. It's your job to pay attention to the telltale signs and to what they're telling.

So, point of story. Keeping the tank always filled up when I leave the barn means my bum is likely to be going numb before I'm close to running out of gas. I just watch the miles on the trip odometer (which I zero at each fill up). I hardly ever go more than 120 miles without stopping for gas.

My Chinese wonder gauge and stock VDO sender are remarkably consistent, at least for the first half of the tank (consistency from one tank to the next is more important than accuracy). But, as noted, I see this just as a check on the mental notes I'm keeping of distance run since the last topping off.

And if one of these gauges does start to drift from how it has been reading, there shouldn't be too many things to check. The resistance from one terminal on the gauge to another has started to change. Something, somewhere has started to corrode, rust, emulsify, disintegrate, delaminate, discombobulate, or just come undone. For starters, disconnect the leads from the gauge altogether and run two new test leads to the sender. This should tell you if it's one of the components gone awry or somewhere in all of the little bits in between.

Stan would have you dump the thing altogether and put in a nice oil gauge.

Me, I think I'd go for some sparkly LED lights.

This is supposed to be fun after all.

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@Sacto Mitch posted:

.Stan would have you dump the thing altogether and put in a nice oil gauge.

Yes, Stan would. I think that knowing my bearings are full of oil is a lot more important than guessing if my tank is full of gas, but you do you.

I go 200 mi - highway or hooning around the flatlands. I pull in to Costco, I put 10-ish gallons of 93 in the big tank and reset the trip odometer. It seems pretty foolproof.

"With any car that spends a lot more time parked than a daily driver, keeping the tank topped up as much of the time as possible is a good idea. The more gas in the tank, the less air. The less air, the less water vapor to condense and gather in the low spots of your tank, fuel lines, and carburetors."

Well, we owners who live in the cold country know all about this, for the 4-5 months when our cars are stored away, as we desperately wait for Spring to arrive.

You southern guys don't have to worry about that...

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It may be surprising if you live on the frozen tundra, but we do need to think about water getting into the gas here, too.

We often get periods of rain that can last for weeks at a time. It may not be 30 below, but it only needs to be a few degrees below the dew point to cause problems.

I guess a meteorologist might argue there's more moisture in the air to cause problems when the temp is above freezing than when it's well below.

At any rate, the best thing for these cars is to get some real heat in them and to flush out the carbs with fresh gas as often as you can.

In Italy, they call this a California tune up.

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