HOLY HYDROCARBONS, BATMAN!

Sounds like they certainly didn't owe you a thing 

Good investigative skills, Gordon. And yeah, after 20 years I wouldn't begrudge them a few new parts either! 

So then, after 20 yrs of the hated E10, a diaphragm leaked. Behold ethanol, destroyer of all that was good in our automotive world.

But seriously: for 20 years this little chunk of rubber sat emerged in a puddle of gasoline and alcohol, and it finally broke down.  Can somebody explain again how tires can become completely unusable in five years of exposure to ozone?  I can guarantee a lot more engineering horsepower went into the rubber composition of those tires than the composition of rubber bits for an obsolete set of 20-year-old carburetors. 

Just sayin. 

When you are done with the Dells, can I have them?

Heat and ultraviolet light does most of the tire damage, I think. UV is really mean, imho.

That said, NHTSA tests show that a six-year max life is very, very conservative. (Look from p 13).

They took Arizona tires up to 7 years old and stressed them. Although they all showed deterioration, all but 5 percent passed the relevant new tire "speed rating" tests. The failures came with like 34 hours running at max rated speed. 

Given this data I am modifying my must-replace-six-year-old-tires-now party line (after having just bought new tires this year, of course): If Arizona tires taken from normal road cars after half a decade can be safely spun under load for 34 hours at 134 mph (which, again, they apparently can), then Bridget's tires, run on Bridget (half the weight of a normal car) in Maryland (3/4 the temperature) for 4,000 miles a year (half the mileage) at 75 mph max, and stored in a garage 96 percent of the time, ought to be OK for at least 8 years. Maybe 10?

While all that is true, Ed, after 5 or 6 years, with all the advancements in tire technology, don't you feel the urge to give baby new shoes? 

I think you're 100% correct, and maybe being conservative even at that, Ed. IMHO, they'll be fine until they are worn out. But by worn out, I'm not just looking at the tread only. You'll be able to see signs of deterioration on the side walls. 

Consider that heat and UV exposure only occur if the car is driven or stored outside in the sun.  I'm not saying there isn't a shelf-life for tires, but given that most of us keep our cars in indoor storage most of the year, and generally operate at about 50% of the speed and weight ratings for the tires, the only thing that would really cause them to need replacement before the tread is worn out would be ozone exposure and dry-rot. I don't live in LA or Phoenix, so the ozone level is low and the summer months are quite humid. I generally store my car in a climate controlled place in the winter. As an aside, I wasn't able to put it in heated storage last year, and I was stunned how rubber bits all dried out on the car.

I'm well aware that the tread compound will harden with time. But, you'll be able to feel that as well. So- the track guys with "R" compound tires probably have a 2 yr window for maximum performance, but the rest of the world running AS tires designed for minivans should be just fine for as long as you need them to be. When they get hard, it won't be all of the sudden, and it won't be dangerous. 

I put a full set of Michelins (285/70's) on my F250 diesel pickup when the factory originals wore out.  Why Michelins? - Since they were a premium over simply replacing the original Firestones?  Mostly because they rode a lot better on those frequent trips between New England and South Carolina.  When we finally settled back in Massachusetts for good, I got the plates transferred over and THEN I was subject to the vehicle inspection here.  First thing they said was "those tires look kinda old".  "Can't be", I said, "They're only 3 years old" and showed him the purchase receipt so the inspection guy let them pass, even though he grumbled a lot.

A year later and I'm trying to sell the truck and quickly got a buyer, but in the middle of negotiations, I needed to get another inspection.   This time, it didn't pass because of "Tire Sidewall Dry Rot".  Over 3/4's of the tread was still left, they were only 4 years old and had "Unacceptable Sidewall Dry Rot".  Excuse me, but WTF?!?!?  You can't sell a vehicle in Massachusetts with a reject sticker on it  so I had to spring for another set of tires - This time, the cheaper, Firestone originals went back on, just to see it go down the road.

don't know the whole story but they were 4 yrs old to you but hey may have been sitting on a shelf for years before U got them,,My mich truck tires are 8 yrs old,  1/2tread left but sidewalls are cracking...I don't drive very far and CA doesnt inspect tires, so Im good till they pop or wear out.

The tires on my Speedster must be about 11 years old now, but there are no signs of sidewall cracking.  There is about 1/2 of the tread left.  I would have replaced them a year ago, but I would rather not put that much money into the car just before trading it back to Carey.  You listening, Carey? :-D

Gordon- someone was watching over you while you were on the road. With the fuel potential dripping on a hot heads, fire would be the next event. Good to hear you  made it home safely.

Lane Anderson posted:

The tires on my Speedster must be about 11 years old now, but there are no signs of sidewall cracking.  There is about 1/2 of the tread left.  I would have replaced them a year ago, but I would rather not put that much money into the car just before trading it back to Carey.  You listening, Carey? :-D

My car came with Dunlop tires on steel rims 11 years ago. After a couple of summers, I got the Bivens and subsequently went through 2 sets of tires (I'm running a LOT of negative camber in the back) on a couple of trips to the west coast and back. I got some nice summer Vredistein Sportracks last year-- but I haven't mounted them yet, because I put the Dunlops and steelies back on the car. I figured the new tires were in boxes in a climate controlled spaces and would be fine for a year or so. I'd like to dial back the negative camber to 3* or so before I mount the nice tires.

I haven't ever gotten to it. The Dunlops still have about 90% of the tread left, and no signs of sidewall damage. I'm not sure these things will ever wear out. I assume the sidewalls will check before anything else gets them, but it's hard to know-- they just keep going. My wife's minivan has 60K mi and is 4 year old. It might need tires before winter of 17/18, but probably not. I've NEVER had tires last that long, but tires get better and better with every passing year.

It makes me smile when the car mags act like I need $2000 worth of rubber every 6 months, or the world is going to end. I guess I'm not a real car guy.

I don't know anything about atmospheric ozone and tire life -- does not seem to be a good explanation. That said, ozone is highly reactive, and will donate that extra third oxygen atom to just about anything it bumps into. So maybe. But uv on polymers, and tire rubber is a polymer, is deadly. The uv cuts the "mers" so to soeak, and they keep getting shorter and shorter and   less flexible. When tire rubber so exposed is stretched it cracks. Recall that the strength of a tire comes from its cords. Not the rubber, Per se. So a little surface cracking on a multiply tire is no biggie. I had ancient Michelin on the old 356, with checks in the sidewall that looked like the grand canyon. But tread was still good after I can't say how many thousands. The car rusted away before the tires failed.

Bought two porch lights for the beach house, and thought I was being very clever by avoiding the use of any metal. Got tired if replacing rusted hardware every couple of years so found some fixtures msde entirely of plastic. Well. These lamps which sit on a due- south facing wall  crumbled in.my hands the other day when I had to remove them to deal with new siding.  Two years only they lasted. The plastic  (polymer) was completely undone by the uv. The pieces reminded me of chalk. Brittle and weak. Next time around: stainless steel. 

Senior Frazoo...Same thing down here in Baja. I'm a block from the Sea of Cortez. Rust, intense heat and UV get nearly everything. My lights were steel and left rust streaks down the wall. Went to plastic and they dissolved in the sun. Went to terracotta clay ones and heat/cooling cracked them. I now have copper ones and so far they are still good after 4 yrs.........Bruce

barncobob posted:

don't know the whole story but they were 4 yrs old to you but hey may have been sitting on a shelf for years before U got them,,My mich truck tires are 8 yrs old,  1/2tread left but sidewalls are cracking...I don't drive very far and CA doesnt inspect tires, so Im good till they pop or wear out.

A while back I bought a set of winter tires from the Tire Rack for my first generation Miata.  They were a 'closeout sale' and a great price, but I was disappointed to find out that my 'new' tires were already three years old.

I bought mine online, so there was no way I could have checked the manufacturing date of the tire ahead of time (I guess I could have phoned the Tire Rack and asked).  Now, when I buy new tires locally I always check the stamped manufacturing date.  I won't buy any tire that's more than a year old.

Michael B:  You know, that never occurred to me when I was driving it last week, although I am certainly NOT driving it right now!  I have been known to tempt fate every now and then.....THIS is not one of those times.

While it might have been a good test for my newly-installed "Blaze-Cut" fire suppression system, I'm just as glad it did't have to activate!

OK, I started this thread, so I can digress;  In my teens, the motorheads in town usually gathered at the Sunoco station (for the 356 and VW crowd) or at the Texaco station down the street, run by a little, old, wiry guy named Ernie Paul.  Ernie was also the town fire chief for our all volunteer fire department and had learned a lot about fire and how it acted over his 60-ish years.  

I stopped by one day to find Ernie washing off a greasy engine part and, as we all did back then (and some people STILL do 'cuz it works well), he had a metal bucket a quarter full of gasoline, with the part sitting in the gas and was using a big, round "parts cleaning brush" to get all the gunk off.   All the while, he had a cigarette dangling from his mouth.  One of the guys hanging around the shop asked; "Ernie - Ain't that cigarette kind-a dangerous, that close to open gas?"

Ernie looked right at him, took the lighted cigarette from his mouth and flipped it right into the open bucket of gasoline!  I was ready to dive for cover as soon as I saw his arm start to move but.......Nothing happened.  The cigarette went out as soon as it hit the liquid.

Ernie looks up at the kid and says; "It ain't the liquid gas that ignites, kid....It's the fumes.  The cigarette ain't hot enough to ignite the fumes and the liquid starved the smolder from oxygen."

I was still wondering if I had stained my shorts, but a lesson as dramatic as that one stays with you for a long time.

I think you all got lucky he hadn't frothed-up a nice bubble of air-fuel atomization in the top half of that bucket, is what I think.

Me too. It's a long way down to the liquid in the can. 

Here you go - No, I don't make this stuff up, but I don't fully understand how gasoline works, either:

This one's pretty good, too, start around 2:00 mins in:

Seen it. Before I posted. You'll get away with this stunt almost every time. 

Once in a great while, however, the gas will be nice and warm. The air will be still. Something (or someone) will froth up the fuel. The cig's embers will break up when it's flicked or dropped. As the embers fly, the air will fan them to a temperature that's just a little above the ignition point of the fuel vapor. . . .

And the dude you handed your beer to will be needing a couple more.

Play with fire and you will get burned!

https://www.facebook.com/kainz...os/1169813336376185/

Probably nobody cares anymore, but I am back from my Beach House renovation exercise, and the deal on the back sun porch lights is: I went big and bought two made entirely of stainless steel.  Look very nice, and now we will see how they last. Even went with LED lights inside.  Maintenance free??  We'll see.

Clear coat them

Bill is correct.  Clear coat will help maintain that new finish.  Manufacturer may or may not have done this, (I doubt it) but it won't hurt to do it again.  Stainless steel is NOT immune to corrosion.  Outdoor lighting products for the everyday person are not high quality stainless, probably less than 304 grade.  This metal will show signs of rust after about 2-3 years depending on your homes location and atmosphere. Salt air atmosphere is the worst.  I ended up spray painting one of my outdoor lights with "Stainless Steel" color because I could not get all the corrosion off with steel wool.  Should have clear coated....

Anyone can prove that a simple spark won't ignite gas unless conditions are exactly right.

Buy a pair of Weber carburetors.