Hoopty for sale; $30K

I know there's likely to be some p-mail on this one, but I'm pulling the trigger. For almost two years, I've put everything I've got into this little car, and now it's the apex of what I'm capable of.
The bigger hand in the build, Jim Sartwell, has been building race cars on the East Coast for more than 25 years, and it's the only variable-bodied Speedster he's ever going to produce.
And I've got that itch again. I've narrowed my options to two; resto-mod the '64 coupe myself or buy a MINI-powered, rag-topped Spyder from Carey. I'm going to do one of those two things, and the Hoopty will transfer ownership to make whichever one happen.
I'm asking a pretty modest $30,000 here before I turn it over to the unwashed masses via auction.
Most of you know about it, lots of you have driven it, and maybe a couple of you are interested in it. What I don't want is for some barbarian to waltz in, plop down some dough and then disappear off into the hinterlands. I'm looking to sell it to somebody who knows what they're getting and is willing to drive it to the edge.
That said, I'm interested in serious offers at my p-mail account: lindisfarne793 AT hotmail.com, or by telephone at 443.995.0576. Feel free to forward this to whomever you like. I'll answer whatever questions you have.

The details:

"The Hoopty"
2006 Jim Sartwell Race Cars "Outlaw" Speedster
Maryland registration is for a Volkswagen Sedan. (There is another option.)

2424cc Type IV (104.5x71) estimated at 160+ bhp (with DTM shroud)
Dual, hex-linked Dellorto 44 carburetors
Dual side-cover, swing-axle 4-speed (3:88 final drive fourth gear, 215mm clutch)
ERCO short racing axles
Fully reinforced, one-off, powder-coated tube chassis
Baja rack-and-pinion steering box with modified Volkswagen tie-rods
Integrated frame head, reinforced frame horns and welded transaxle braces
Two remote oil coolers; Type IV in the fan shroud, and high-capacity, fan-cooled BugPack on the firewall with braided steel lines on each
Front beam and torsion have been narrowed six inches each, three per corner
CB Performance 914 replacement disc brakes with 2" drop spindles
Custom-fitted, hard-line brake hydraulics
KYB GR-2 gas shocks
Optima Red Top battery with hidden kill switch
One-touch starter button and reliable, rebuilt VW starter
550-style handbrake with two adjustable emergency brake cables
Stock Volkswagen pedal assembly with roller accelerator
Seven-fuse, 12V electrical system with stock Beetle generator and pulley
JAZ 10-gallon polymer fuel cell
In-line fuel filter, isolated Facet 3-psi fuel pump and braided steel lines
AutoMeter Pro-Comp series tachometer, fuel and oil temperature gauges
CenterLine "Wide 5" riveted wheels and 40,000-mile Kumho tires
Custom header and exhaust system
MSD Blaster 2 ignition, 6AL box, distributor and hollow plug wires
Pyrotect five-point racing harnesses for each seat attached to half-inch chassis studs
Independently fused, five-inch Hella fog lights
Detachable, thick Grant GT steering wheel with compressible collar
Dash-mounted horn button, power and kill switches and line-of-sight indicator lights
Custom windshield to replicate 1950s-era racing cars
Reproduction GT mirrors from Fibersteel
Custom clamshell and cowl-induction bodywork (paint, fit and finish will be as-is)

It's a truly unique car. I've decided to leave it in the paint-and-primer shape it's in now for the sale, solely because I think it really does add something. Call me crazy; Maaco could spray it silver for $300, and then it would become another silver outlaw. Do what you like, but I'm leaving it for you to decide.
Call me with any questions.
(Hopefully, this doesn't become "Nardi Horn Button Part Deaux.")

AAAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of course I'm not really surprised, given the vibes since Carlisle. Either of those choices would be neat. One thing, the Beck Spyder is Audi-powered. Only the new Speedster is MINI-powered.

Not a surprising move at all, considering your "growth curve" . . .

So, the very first of the East Coast Outlaws is on the block. The beginning of a legacy, an historical car, make sure that the buyer gets Cory to sign and date the dash, the signature will honestly add value to the car over the next ten or twenty years.

Especially if he opts for the steel coupe and strikes out on his own, rather than living/working under another replica manufacturer's shadow. I think that the PCA ought to start worrying, betcha the 356 Registry already is.

Oh! DuDe! Say it ain't so! So Soon? What'll we use to tow the Mighty PowerStroke? Oh, The Humanities!
Will you be able to adjust to driving with a roof over your noggin?? I dunno.

~WB

And here I thought you were going to buy a "Might Power Stroke" Diesel pickup...........

More power to you, Cory! Now onward to the 'Coupety' at Area 51!

Just what "mad" ideas are lurking in the back of Cory's mind for transforming a water-cooled Special Edition? There is no way a Spyder or Speedster could be acceptable to our pal Cory as-is.

The Hoopty IS an original piece of automotive ART! Someone is going to get a very special car.

Change is always good and in this case, it will work very well for both the buyer and seller as both will be in a win - win situation.
Cory and I spoke last night about this move forward and in a weak moment and hesitation, I almost pulled the trigger myself...however I have my speedster apart, I am comitted to doing a resto with what I have in the "Little Shop of Horror".
Someone grab Cory's super deal !

Cory you need to see this, a cheaper version could have a Beetle axle beam and center tube from a pan the rest is easy do fabricate.
http://video.nbcsandiego.com/player/?id=123257

Here's what's in the wings. I believe I will be able to do both the coupe and the Spyder when the Hoopty is off and running with a happy new owner.
Since Tuesday night, I've talked to Alan, Gordon, Lane, TC, Danny, Carey, Mickey, Paul, Max and (very briefly) Angela. I believe we'll be able to do a water-cooled Beck Spyder build at Carlisle '08, reminiscent of Lane's '06 show-stopper, and I'll be able to tinker with the coupe out-of-sight in the Maryland "Skunkwerks" now known as Area 51.
The coupe will be an Emory-inspired outlaw, with a '67 (I think) 912/356 engine. The entire car is there, minus the schnoz, and Angela is quite correct in its restorability. I think I can find the right assistance when the time comes, but for now it'll be a strip-and-clean projekt with a lofty, lofty goal. And it'll cost me a couple grand to buy the car; we already talked that over.
So. The Hoopty goes, the coupe shows up, and I wait for the Big Show to get my 550. I won't be able to compare an apple to an orange to a pear, so I'll be happier than if I kept the Hoopty and continued to squeeze a perfectly pressed turnip.
Somebody gets a damn nice car for their money (in relative terms), and I go back to Square One with two different cars. Kinda seems like a good idea to me. Win-win.

Angela, I haven't forgotten that I owe you that braided line. I will probably ship it and all four coils back in your direction at the same time. I appreciate the legwork and expense of getting them out here, but I'll be passing on installation. It was very, very kind of you. Thanks!

Just hate to see you go from:

"That guy! He built that Wild thing, he had it at Carlisle, he must be insane!

To:

"That guy. He bought that thing that they built at Carlisle, he must be insane!"


AND spend more than $20,000.00 in the bargain. It's a dune buggy masquerading around as a Porsche Spyder for $hit sake ! ! ! ! You just KNOW that the chassis is a mess. Takes a whole lot more than a jig and a mig to engineer a successful mid engine platform. ESPECIALLY one hurriedly altered to accept a high torque water cooled engine. It's more than just changing the mounting points and adding a few bars.

$20,000.00 to be some kit builders Butt Boy ? ! ? ! ? ! ? ! ? !

The best vehicles just don't get built in an open field . . . on a two to three day time table.

You ARE insane, Dude.

CORY,

I think owning TWO cars is totally I-N-S-A-N-E!

Especially a Coupe & a SPYDER.

;-)

Sane people have a coupe & a SPEEDY!

Quote: "You just KNOW that the chassis is a mess. Takes a whole lot more than a jig and a mig to engineer a successful mid engine platform. ESPECIALLY one hurriedly altered to accept a high torque water cooled engine. It's more than just changing the mounting points and adding a few bars."

Didn't realize you had so much experience with our 550S chassis, TC...

What is a mess about our current chassis? Hey, I'm not an engineer, I just pay them, so enlighten me, please. I know there is ALWAYS room for improvement, and I am always looking to improve. There are already several modifications we make to the BIG hp racecars: dash hoop, hoop at the rear firewall that is tied to the rear towers, side impact bars that connect the 2, etc...

Hurriedly altered? where do you get your info, dude...

the 550S project started in the early 1990's w/ the first production cars being built in 1994 IIRC. Nothing "thrown together" or "hurried" as you mentioned. Actually, engineered by one of our partners in Germany, tested at Interlagos, improved, tested, etc, etc... Once sorted it managed to win it's class 4 years running, pulled 1.1g on the lateral skid pad, never a problem... yeah, sounds terrible.

And just for the record, my first conversation w/ Cory was late yesterday, after his car was listed for sale, and well after Cory had
set off in this direction, so I don;t want anyone to think I am trying to save a sale or influence anything.
I would LOVE to build a new toy for Cory. If it happens, great! If not, that's cool too.
I AM seriously looking for some feedback from TC on his statements. Lots of 550S' on the road and this is the first time I've EVER heard anything of the sorts, so it has sparked my curiosity.

I especially liked the "Butt boy" comment....

If this gets any better, I will make my $35 contribution next Tuesday. The Evolution of Evil! You now have the floor!

TC, I'm already a case of "That guy. He bought that thing that they built at Carlisle, he must be insane!", and my butt is just fine, thanks.

...Butt Boy, 550 Spyders, engineers...Hey Vince....grab another beer for me and Odwagerty while you're up, wouldja...

im popping the popcorn right now
this is better than the movies

odwagerty -- I find enough value in the spyderowners to chuck-in 3 buck's worth a month, and I get a happy face on speedsterowners for no extra charge! That makes it an ultra-special bargin because on speedsterowners I automatically get Team Evil. Odwag, you're right about Team Evil, it doesn't get better than that. So pay your admission and sit back to enjoy. Team Evil is due to show at any time.

Mark

I am 38 and still sneak into movies. I paid the 35 clams once and never used the site after that, then I logged in one day and there was 55 thousand messages... I seem to use more it often this way.

Not to hijack the thread but "Mini powered spyder from Carey"? Where can I learn more? I've been building up the piggybank for a few years now and while I was almost sold on the SAW the very slow progress on Nolan's car has be gun shy. I definitely want a modern drivetrain, feed me :)

-Jeff

They're still working on the prototype, but at Carlisle Carey said he expected it to be ready to go in August (I think). Call or email Carey or Valerie Hines at Special Edition.

First, before any tepid explanation or my usual back-pedaling:

I need to apologize to Carey for any mis-indication that he is anything other than absolutely Top Notch! The Best! Honest to a FAULT! And/or otherwise anything but a Major Dude ! ! As a "friend" and manufacturer, gang member and expert, he's is clearly above all others. I wouldn't want anyone, including Carey, to believe that I think otherwise. Nobody would EVER think that you are/would be/even Think of "trying to save a sale or influence anything" don't ever, EVER think that!

I'm SO sorry of I hurt you or got you angry in any way. I totally forget that a handful are manufacturers as well as enthusiasts.


And to Lane . . . nice to hear that your butt is healing up . . .


Now on to those four fateful phrases. Beginning with "You just KNOW . . . " and summing up with, " . . . and adding a few bars." The WORDS that rocked a WORLD.



Well, they're true.


In the larger sense, anyway.


From MY perspective>


I LOVE working with my hands, I do it all day and into the night in my career, and my "hobby" mostly involves building racing cars to NHRA, IHRA, NOPI, and SCCA spec. Our company is called PIPE DREAMS and we bend a LOT of pipe.

The SPYDER, in any form, but especially in the "S" configuration is a perfect track car. Balance, braking, and power are PERFECTION, however . . . I believe that the chassis design is under developed. Even within the rear trans/suspension/engine space there is no upper triangulation to speak of. No diagonal down tubes connecting a rear passenger bulkhead hoop to the suspension upright points. No "X" member. And those silly little twin roll hoops . . .

Considering the fiberglass panels, proprietary chassis, and engine "swap" and year of manufacture, the SPYDER would probably end up in the GT classes in SCCA competition. Anyone wondering what I mean just needs to look at a GT car, if only the chassis, then compare it to what's under the SPYDER.

I know that the SPYDER isn't being built or sold as a race car, BUT, that's it's "heritage", that's the draw, that's the hook if you want, and the current chassis falls short. ESPECIALLY for a guy like our little Cory. Can you imagine him in a car with a ladder frame and no door bars? NOTHING above his ass but fiberglass? Remember the incident with the SUV? Remember how you drove the Hoopty? Now do that same thing in a non-Hooptied SPYDER.

Can a car built in three days, with a "stock" chassis protect that animal? Would any of you wanna be among the guys who helped build that car and accept the responsibility of sticking him into a ride like that.

He drives like Speed Racer for crap sakes ! ! ! ! If the body of his car is the candy shell of 550S SPYDER, the chassis really ought to have "Made by Peterbuilt" stamped into the horizontals.

No offense to ANYONE at all (honest and truly ! ! ! ! !) just an opinion.





Oh, and Lane . . . again, nice to hear the good news about your butt . . .


---radio-edit---

Cory phoned, thanking me for my honest answer/comment ? ! ? ! During the conversation he mentioned that he was getting the Spyder because he badly needed a daily driver. In Maryland. Where it snows. An all-weather daily driver. So he's gettin' the Spyder.


Anyway, after I came to. I figured that he's just playin' everyone against each other for some screwed up reason or another. EVERYONE, just ignore all of the above, never happened, never wrote it. Carey, I completely apologize for every and any thing that I ever said or did that you took offense with, REALLY! Truly! Even though I never really wrote or said anything at all, 'cause ALL of my above comments are bein' ignored.











And . . . Lane . . . still, SO good to hear about your butt . . .

I'm soooo tempted to say something about him kissing it, but since TC never actually wrote or said anything, I won't ;-).

Lane,

You're a bigger man than me.

TC,

Thanks for that. Rereading MY post I sound like a prick, which wasn't what I intended either. I WAS caught off guard, coupled with the fact that 5 min. before I read the post I watched one of my guys drill side trim in a car that GETS NO DAMN TRIM!!!, and still had a little bit of a nitrous headache from the dentist... Hell, yesterday should have been Friday the 13th...
I completely agree with your assessment , and one of the first things that Cory and I discussed were the same things that we have done on the racecars, and are incorporating into the cars designed for the SCCA . This is a dash loop, hoop behind the firewall (tied together), and all tied back to the shock towers, on the upper side. No X brace, but it isn't a bad idea.

Again, these are all major improvements that are fairly standard on our track cars, but have not been incorporated into the "street" cars.

And, for what it's worth, I was not offended, but seriously wanting you to elaborate, which you did, and I thank you for that. For the track (and to some people's standards for the street), the chassis IS underdeveloped. Chuck wouldn't have it any other way, period. Close to the original, and light weight. With the incorporation of more modern drivetrains, higher output possibilities (that are still reliable), etc... weight isn't such a great concern. OK, it's always a concern, but what's a few hundred more pounds when we're talking about 1300-1500 lbs total...
Spyder for a daily driver? I know of only a FEW (2 maybe 3) others. 2 in San Diego and Vicki Viar in TN. Spyder in the snow?? I think Cory should fly out here the first time we get 24" of the white stuff and I'll set him loose in a spyder. Whatya say Cory? :)

BTW, TC: We should speak offline about the SCCA projects we are doing for VIR. All of the aerodynamics have been wind tunnel tested and track proven, but I am always up for ideas on the chassis, and SCCA spec cages.

OK, enough for now, I've gotta get back into the shop... but boy do I like this air conditioning... :)

I've driven our spyder in the snow. It sucked. Though Cory will have a top and ours has none, it would still suck... But in spite of all the sniveling about the weather out here (I'm in VA right now), I honestly think you could drive a spyder here probably 275 to 300 days of the year. You are going to get wet, but if you don't mind that, no reason to back down. I would not use the term "daily" driver, but I would use the term, "regular" driver.

As far as the frame goes... our TR frame has quite a bit of non standard tubing, under the dash, braced, engine bay hoop and side intrusion hoops. With the original six we had in it, there was noticeable chassis flex on acceleration. The engine bonnet would pinch closed (and pinch fingers if your hands/arms were back there).

Steve added a tie-in from the engine bay hoop to the rear of the chassis. Dramatic improvement. We still have some flex in the cockpit area with this engine (pretty torquey engine, probably 250 lbs or so), but it is minor and as a matter of aesthetics we are not going to address it.

If we were to race this car, in addition to a proper roll bar, this area of chassis flex would have to be reduced.

So Carey - build Cory a fine car. Several of us, myself included, highly recommended you to him.

angela

"yesterday should have been Friday the 13th... "

I'm gonna steal a little of that! I'm recovering from a flip-flop mishap that sent me into HELL. Simple enough, flip flopped halfway off my foot and sent me sprawling down the stairs.

Results:

Water on the right knee. Drained three times but still has horrible pain in three places, so it's back to the Doc's on Monday.

Four top front teeth gone. I went face first into a pile of rims and sheared the two top front incisors off at the gum line, shattered the left next in line to bits, and broke the right next in line at the pin (a $600.00 crown) and swallowed all four of 'em. (I got money coming out of the wazoo . . . considering that crown . . . .) The canines are loose and may have to go as well. I kinda always wanted a permanent silver bridge that read "FEAR" anyway . . .

I came to rest in a pile of dirt/dust/metal shavings which went right up between my eyes and lids. I've been going back and forth to the Doctor having them rinsed, picked, and drilled out since Monday, last appointment is today at 2:45. There's so much rust in one that I needed a tetanus shot.

Blinded, crippled, and busted in the chops . . . . I look like the loser in those Bum Fight Videos!

http://www.explosivefightvideos.com/fightvideos/497/ocean-beach-bum-fight.html

Holy crap, TC!!!!

That's makin' me hurt just thinking about it. I can see a new thread already: "Just how safe are these replica flip-flops?"

Wow TC; I cringe just reading about it; get well soon bro!!

Cory are you going to toss that thing on ebay?

Cory,

Here's your front clip:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=478288

Have him skin it, let him keep the steering box and column and save yourself a LOT of money. Looks like a pretty nice deal AND includes the hood. Although you'll probably want me to splash you a fiberglass hood when I do mine anyway, I'm guessing.

OUCH!!! And I thought I was having a bad day... Heal up, man.

There isn't much I'm going to comlplain about ...might want to screen da crap and save a buck :)........ feel better TC.

Holy Hey-Zeus! Drop off the radar for a couple days, and look what happens!
I'm glad to see y'all have my chassis worked out for me! Not kidding, really. I think that I'll need as rigid and tough a chassis as I can get, the way I drive.
EBay? Why, yes, if there are no takers in a timely manner. Alan has offered to draft the ad. Thing is, I want to write two checks very soon; one to uor colleague in Indiana and the other to Tif in Annapolis. I want to send starting money to Carey, and I want to tinker with the coupe as soon as possible to ward off those pesky complacency spirits.
TC, I'll begin in ernest when the coupe is safely at Sartwell's. Yes on the 'glass hood. Just don't get any fiberglass dust in your eyes. Good luck on the healing business.
"Regular driver," is better than daily. Correctamundo. I still have the Mighty Fighting (albeit factory) 2006 Golf for the week or two it snows here. Carey assures me that it will do fine in the rain -- although it will only have to until the coupe is finished. On that day, I will give The Girl the keys to her new Golf. :

" . . . . when the coupe is safely at Sartwell's."

WTF ? ! ? ! ?

I TOLD that you would NEVER push him out of your life!

Don't even bother explainng, all I wanna hear out of your mouth is,
"Cory was wrong, TC is a GOD and always right . . . "

I want some of those meds that TC is on :-)