Hoopty update - engine is screwed ...

... so I'm going to make it BIGGER.

Last night, the Wrench and I finally got down to the engine business. The symptoms were the tap-tap-tap noise coming from one of my cylinders. I had thought it was a piece of now-flat metal inside that maybe got sucked in from the top side, but no. That would have been easy.
'What it is that had happened was is that ...' the pistons, TRW 103x71s of the slip-skirt type, are made of forged aluminum and have the wrist-pins held in by spiral retaining clips. One of the wrist pins had eaten its clip, and the piston was busy gouging the inside of the cylinder where the pin prodtuded unevenly from the hole it's supposed to live in. Parallel tracks, perfectly straight line.
So I'm replacing them with 104s.

That sucks...can you use teflon buttons on Type IV's such as those used on Type I's? If you can, do it when you install the new pistons. Look at it this way; it could've been worse, like a broken internal part that would've danced inside your block like crazy wreaking havoc.....Thank God it's only a top end job. You'll be on the road again in no time.

Cory - BUMMER!! I feel your pain, my brutha!

Hope you can get that bad-boy back together and on the road real soon (weather allowing)!

Cory, as with any clip, c-clip, d-ring or other, triple check it's fully seated upon assy and don't reuse. Only new, quality mfg pieces. That clip should not have walked. If all else is good
and assembled well then this clip is not under any huge load. It just locates the pin. Double check the machined grooves on the removed pistons (just for curiosity) and make sure your
new clip lands are in good shape. Good luck.
P.S...Sorry about your issues

The new pistons, cylinders, etc. are all coming as a package deal from FAT. Roughly $600 bucks for the works, and the kit's going to include nothing but new parts. The old pistons were about a hundred bucks more, and it was just the pistons.
The new ones are cast, so there's a trade-off there, but the tolerances will be tighter and I'll probably not have the spring clip problem again.
We both ran our fingers over every contact surface as we assembled the 2366 last time, to include the spring clips, and there wasn't anything obviously out of whack. Live and learn; the insertion and extraction method for those guys involved picking the exposed end with a dental tool, and then constricting the spring; I might have buggered it doing that.
The really good news -- you're right -- is that I didn't do more damage than I did. If I had broken a connecting rod, or the cylinder had flared ... I got off pretty lightly.
It might set paint back a bit. Who the heck cares, right? If it doesn't run, it's not worth painting!
Woo-Hoo!
I'll keep y'all posted. And while it's apart, I'll be finishing my engine tins.
Who else wanted sheet metal done? I have a 4'x8' sheet of polished aluminum, and a 4'x4' sheet of brushed. I'm using the brushed sheet already for my engine tins ... (TC, I seem to remember that I owe you some door skins).

Cory,

Sorry to hear about your pains. At least a new set of P's & C's isn't too bad, but still not something you want to go through.

Unless, while your engine is out, you want to do what this guy did. Probably won't look good on a speedy, though. You can see the whole story and great pics at http://www.ronpatrickstuff.com/
It's some beautiful work.

Bob

" ... so I'm going to make it BIGGER."
That's our Cory......

Robert, I think I saw that last year. That guy must have sunk his entire fortune into that thing! Very impressive -- I'd even like to ride the dude's Vespa!

Ernie, you bet. In a perfect world, I'd have had the 2.0 six waiting in the wings, but that went down the river a little more than a month ago.

I'm also going to re-do my exhaust while it's all apart.

Party on Dude!

Cory,
Ensure that all aspects of the engine coefficiently increase, else that super big bore won't do you any good at all.

Those 103s like to breathe, you'll now HAVE to do some head work as well as increasing the exhaust system's capabilities.

If this isn't done you'll be generating more heat than power with those big cast iron cylinders..

Bigger does not generally mean better with the TIV... The key is efficiency and thats harder to attain than cubic centimeters.

"Its all in the combo".

Good luck, yell if you hit some snags.

Thanks, Jake!
The guy on the other end of the phone talked to my dude here, and his general suggestion was that the 104s would be better for routine street use than the 103s, since the tolerances would be better and they wouldn't have to be as carefully looked after. Is he right, assuming I keep the DTM?
What temps and pressures should I be looking for after the initial warm-up, for starters? What should 'hot' be?
I absolutely will give you a call if I hit any snags. I'll be cutting on the exhaust Tuesday, and we'll be making the engine compartment this time, too. I never did get around to that before; I was so excited that it was running that I diced it with the cold winter air.
Even though I got away with it and the temperature wasn't a factor in my piston's death, I'm going to be a whole lot more careful from here on out. I can't afford to do this every few months.

Cory, You needed to do some further research before going this route, buddy..

Do yourself a favor and go to www.shoptalkforums.com and do searches for
103mm cylinders

With yours being 104s the issues are WORSE as 1mm of material is further removed with the OD of the cylinder remaining the same..

also, an open engine bay is a nasty thing, the exhaust temp and road heat rwadiates into the engine bay and makes for high fan inlet temps, hot air doesn't effectively cool components.

I don't want to discourage you, buti also want to ensure that you are well informed and can make this engine build successful, a little bit of me dies with every failed TIV.

Jake, I went to Peek and bought a new set of seals and gaskets, connecting rods, bearings ... blah, blah, blah. I ordered the new 104x71 pistons and cylinders from FAT because I couldn't find a single 103x71 through the usual sources. It's coming apart this week; the heads are at Peek being 'skinned.'
I'm making a complete set of engine tins this week. The fresh and hot air will be completely isolated from each other.
Can you be more specific on the 104 worries?

Update to the update: The piston and cylinder were the only things damaged. No noticeable damage to the crank, connecting rods, bearings or heads. Heads have been skinned. Engine is going back together today. The Wrench called to report he's pleased with what he's seen this afternoon.
Looks like I'll be saving my pennies for aluminum cylinders in 20,000 miles or so, but I'm good to go for the short term.
Tins are still pending; I'm still at work from Thursday a.m. and will be as free as a bird in the morning.
WOO-HOO!

Great news bro! I suppose you'll be driving to Carlisle....

Cory,
If the offer still stands, I could sure use a set of engine tin sheet metal for my speedster. I am in the process of assembling a type IV with DTM. Hopefully it will be roadworthy and ready to for the 1000 mile trip to Carlisle.
Just let me know if the offer is still good and how much and where to send it to.
Jim

Ricardo, I darn sure will.
Jim, it is still an open offer. Just make me some posterboard templates and send them in a tube; they're pretty painless to draw out, but I don't have a standard compartment anymore so you'll need to make them based on yours.
Draw, mail, done. I'll let you know what the damage is on the metal and shipping, but it shouldn't be too much. I'll happily make 'em for you gratis, on account of all the barter we've been doing.
I still have to make a couple door skins for TC, too. I'll be doing those this week also.
Still got my number?

Jim - If you decide to drive your Speedster to Carlisle you should hook up with those of us doing the caravan thing from the southeast. Let me know if you want details.

Cory,
As soon as I get the engine tin done and the engine istalled I will make some templates for the engine bay. Thanks once again for the offer. As always, let me know if you need any parts. I need to clear out some space in the garage so I can actually have some room to work. I'm not sure, but I think my engines and carbs are reproducing.

Lane,
I am hoping to get my car on the road in time for Carlisle. If so, I would be honored to tag along with the caravan. I should know before too long if it will happen this year.
Jim

Great! Email or PM me when you are pretty sure, and I'll give you all the particulars that we know so far.

If more than a few guys are in need for tins I can waterjet them at an affordable price...

Jake, I may take you up on that myself! I've got your eighty-six-piece bottom tins, a bigger hole to fill AND side plates to make!