Horn Honking

Aw,oh......   IIRC, there were at least three different ways that VW managed the horn circuit and my car, a 1969 Beetle sedan, seemed to be a one-year-wonder and how I got it to work probably wouldn't work for you.  I went from a grounded steering column to a floating (electrically) column and a bunch of other stuff but I finally got it working and it's been fine ever since.  The type of steering shaft coupler I finally used made a YUUUGE! difference, as the first one I got from a "normal" (starts with a "C") VW supplier shorted the shaft to ground intermittently, driving me nuts on turns.  A NOS German one finally cured it for me.

Carey helped someone else on here cure the horney problem  on their Beck and I'm sure he'll see this thread, too.

First ....remove the horn button from the steering wheel and see if you have a loose wire that could ground itself. Second.....the wire coming out of the hollow steering shaft under the gas tank at the steering box area may be grounding, third... check the two wires at the horn too. 

So Paul, you can build and race VW engines in your garage, but you can't make your horn honk??  Uh - oh . . .

No, no, I've made it honk. I just can't make it stop honking. I remember dealing with this 30 years ago, but my more current experience is with cars that don't use or need horns so It's bringing back memories or flash backs if truth be known.

I'll definitely follow Alan's suggestions. We just went for a joy ride and it didn't honk. But then again I didn't try to honk it. It seems like if I honk it, it won't stop honking when I turn the wheel. Ghost in the machine.

Don't criticize me in front of Cory, I don't want him to get nervous. This horn thing is an anomaly. Okay, okay I don't do electrical very well.... or at all. I'm okay really, when the meds kick in. 

Paul...I wish I was going to be at Bugorama to hook up with you again but the diving down here in Baja was just spectacular today. iIwould have liked to talk to your Son more about racing "Herbie" and have some fun addressing him as "RL Ellis"....Maybe another time ??   I'm a yellow fan and I like your color on the Speedster !

I'm looking for a Spyder next (to build) and would enjoy lining up with your Son. Imagine   !!!    "Herbie" VS " Lil Bastard"........Bruce

El Frazoo posted:

So Paul, you can build and race VW engines in your garage, but you can't make your horn honk??  Uh - oh . . .

... says the man who has designed rockets, but dithered for a couple of pages here about changing his alternator. 

The 2 are not really related. Drag cars don't generally have horns, but they do have engines that need to be strong and somewhat reliable. 

Your horn set up is different from all the VW based cars.  The overall design is similar (I mean it's a simple relay) but you have a modern horn isolation ring on the back of your hub adaptor and you have a ground isolation "finger" built into your turn signal unit.

As Al mentioned, do check the wire to the horn button, and you can check the wire at the horns, as they are both easy to check.  You do not have a wire running down your column, so skip that.

Most likely what is happening is your turn signal unit is too close to the back of your steering wheel hub and one of the screws in the face plate of it are rubbing on your horn isolation ring triggering a ground.  The quick and easy fix is to loosen the hub adapter set screw (flat head screw at 6 o'clock position of the hub adapter, lay on your back and look up at the bottom of your turn signal unit, you'll see it) and slide your turn signal unit towards the front of the car/dash and then tighten the set screw.  Doing it this way is a fine line between buying the right amount of space and having so much space the contact "finger" is not riding on the isolation copper plate.

The "take it apart and figure it out properly" approach  is;

Remove your horn button (if you haven;t already) and remove the 24mm nut holding the hub to the column (might want to mark orientation of the wheel so you can put it back straight).  Then look at the back of your hub adapter for a groove or cut into the copper isolation plate, it'll be obvious.  Find which screw is making that groove and either tighten it, move it away from the hub, or grind it down slightly.  At this time you can see how far the horn isolation "finger" sticks out and been it open slightly to make contact sooner if necessary.  When reassembling DO NOT just try and push the wheel onto the splines.  First, with one hand, reach under the dash and find the universal joint (or exposed steering shaft just forward of the universal joint).  Grab the column here and hold tension towards the rear of the car, then put your steering wheel back on while hold tension back on the column.   Once indexed on the splines, reassemble (and don't forget your wave washer under the 24mm nut.) Done. ...but wait, there's more...

why did you have to hold the column?, your car has a modern rag joint at the steering box (connects the upper and lower column about 6" aft of the steering box input shaft).  It is designed to separate and leave the upper part of the steering column in place should you get into a front end accident (and not impale you with the steering column).  I'd suggest checking this location to make sure it is indexed properly and the 2 rubber bushings are in good condition, pliable, and tight on the 2 indexing pins.  IF this is improperly installed or just worn, it will allow movement in the column fore and aft, which would give you the honk/no honk situation depending on how the steering wheel was held, pushed, turned...  It is VERY rare that these are worn, but I have seen them improperly installed, ESPECIALLY when someone has changed their own steering wheel and not known how to properly handle the column. They'll push the column forward not knowing they are separating the rag joint or knocking the bushings out of it, etc...  You can always e-mail or post a photo if you;d like me to look at that area too.

I can't get better information than that, thanks. It's certainly within my capabilities.

Bruce, we'd love to see you again too, and get a photo opportunity with a 550, 36 and Herbie would be great too. Paul Jr. said he would have preferred at 550 to the Speedster, but he's now taller than me. He stands at least 6 feet 3, so fitting into a traditional 550 would be a challenge.

Again I really appreciate having Beck give me the lowdown on my horn repair. The latest thing is we didn't have tail lights last night. I know this car has been sitting mostly for bout the last two years and things go south will just sitting. I haven't gotten the chance to check the fuses. I have no regrets at all purchasing this little beauty, there are always little things that need to be addressed. I originally thought I'd change the engine and go bigger right away, but after driving it, I've decided to leave it alone for a while and just enjoy it. I'm having so much fun just being in it. When I unzip the cover, I love the smell coming from the inside and it sets the stage for a fun drive..... anywhere.

You'll see the running light fuse in your manual.  Don't just look at the fuse, as cars from your era were known for blowing the fuse inside the end cap, so they look good but have no continuity.

Taillight wiring is simple.  You'll have a black wire on each for running lights, a red wire on each for brake lights, a brown wire on each for a ground and a blue wire and a green wire for respective turn signals.

One more tip: There is a small screw-in terminal block near each tail light that the wires connect into.  If the screws have come loose or gotten corroded you might lose your lights.  Do any (brake, flashers, etc.) work or are they all out?

What I set up on my car is when I honk my horn all front and rear lights go on and my radio antenna goes up and down. It really adds to the "I'm really pissed get outta my way" effect.

Funny thing, I've been so wrapped up in going to the Bugorama this weekend, I haven't had time to put the car up on jackstands and get under it. It's a 2006 Beck so keep that in mind.

I noticed the passenger side rear bumper had some wiggle in it. I looked with a flash light and could see the bumper bracket goes through the body and where it connects to the frame, there is a break in the steal. We have a nice welder so that will be an easy fix.

There is some damage to the convertible top where it meets the top of the windshield. I'll have to take a couple of pictures so you guys can actually see what I mean. There is a rubber strip that runs the length or actually width of the car and it's torn nearly all the way across. I didn't spend much time looking at it but it looked like the front edge of the canvas doesn't correctly wrap around the bow so when I try to fasten down the top, the canvas isn't curled under like it should be.. I hope it can be repaired, not that I plan on doing much top up driving, but I still want it to work. If I find out I need to replace the top, what kind of money is that? I expected the car to need a few things and I'm still very happy with it, hell I love this car.

Paul

We generally don't post pricing, simply because it is archived forever and it never fails that someone will refer to or argue about an old price they found somewhere...  E-mail me for pricing info on the top.  You probably also have the old Brazilian cloth, which is pretty thin.  Our new material (for many years now) is American made Sonnendeck canvas, with an optional upgrade to German Haartz cloth.  Honestly, I'd start with a local upholstery shop and see if they can repair the top at the header bow and replace the seal.  That and a good coat of Camp Dry can make your existing top last for years...

VERY IMPORTANT; fix your bumper bracket before you drive anywhere else!  Your main battery ground attaches to this same bracket at the chassis, and if it breaks, you will lose all power to the car!  We added a gusset to that bracket nearly 10 years ago, and that cured all cracking weld issues, so I'd suggest doing that as well. It can be as simple as a piece off 1/8" flat stock from the bracket to the 1x2 support in that location.  Do the same to the driver's side just for good measure...

Rusty S posted:

What I set up on my car is when I honk my horn all front and rear lights go on and my radio antenna goes up and down. It really adds to the "I'm really pissed get outta my way" effect.

F'n coffee just went out my nose...

Paul - The "old Brazilian cloth" that Carey mentions will also eventually let water come through.  At least it will if you put the top up much.  I updated mine to a Hartzcloth (sp?) top and it is sooooooooooooo much nicer.  Changing out the top is not a small job as it is more or less permanently affixed to the car, but it's worth the effort if you drive in all kinds of weather.  If/when you decide to do so either Carey or I can walk you through it.

Wow, great info thanks. I will weld up that spot tonight when I get home and reinforce it.  I noticed the ground cable attached in that area but what you're saying makes since. It's funny last night my son said I should call Beck and see it this had been a problem and what the cure is. He mentioned you guys would want to know about it in case it had happened to others. If enough people let you know, you would take corrective action in future builds. And that is exactly what you just told me. Good stuff thanks

I don't want to put any cheap crap on my car but I checked Vintage's web page and the convertible tops are not badly priced. Would they fit a Beck?

No Beck use a a carriage top frame assembly...VS uses a 2 hoop method

Definitely go with the Beck top.  You know it will fit.  Not only is the frame different, but the header is different and the way in which the top is attached to the car is different.  The Beck top is permanently (sort-of) attached at the rear, whereas the VS top is just snapped on.

Oh, I didn't realize that, thanks