How do you make it rain in California?... buy a speedster.

Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Tremont, IL posted:

Ted,

 

Regarding the gearing: go nuts (don't cheap out here). I'd never leave the stock 1-2 main-shaft, unless you plan to be racing Teby for pinks as he suggests-- otherwise, first is utterly useless. I'd go with a longer 1-2 set and keep the rest nice and tight. Stick with the .89/3.88 final drive. Al's right about the highway, but getting a "perfect" highway gear is really, really hard. I had a .82/3.88 with a 2110-- you won't like it. The .89/3.44 is not perfect, but it's close enough for rock-n-roll.

Why do you say he won't like the .82/3.88 combo when the .89/3.44 is 2mph longer (at 3500rpm)? Is it the rpm drop from (stock) 3rd gear? Insert the .82 for 5th in gearstack #2 and the recovery rpm is still 2550 (much higher than the stock 2400rpm).

I sold all of my other motors. I only have the lil-2054.

Just spoke with Berg.  The selector rods are back from heat treat. The shafts are coming back. The intermediate housings are in line for the CNC machine. We are about 5 weeks out for the parts. Then... it would all go to the builder.  Doing the math with the assumed 8-12 weeks at the builder... I'm guessing May/June. Most likely won't have the 5 speed in time for the West Coast SLO meet.

I'll guess I will start preparing to install the 2054. 

Anything special I should know about installing an electronic fuel pump?

Put it as close to the tank as practical.  Put a decent fuel filter in the line between the tank and pump.  Use good hose and clamps.  That's about it.

Gordon Nichols posted:

Put it as close to the tank as practical.  Put a decent fuel filter in the line between the tank and pump.  Use good hose and clamps.  That's about it.

Grab 12v from the hot side of the starter?

TRP posted:

I sold all of my other motors. I only have the lil-2054.

Just spoke with Berg.  The selector rods are back from heat treat. The shafts are coming back. The intermediate housings are in line for the CNC machine. We are about 5 weeks out for the parts. Then... it would all go to the builder.  Doing the math with the assumed 8-12 weeks at the builder... I'm guessing May/June. Most likely won't have the 5 speed in time for the West Coast SLO meet.

I'll guess I will start preparing to install the 2054. 

Anything special I should know about installing an electronic fuel pump?

If your guy has all the stuff (and he's allotted the time) when he starts there's no reason your transaxle couldn't be done in a week or 2.  Talk to whoever you need to and make the necessary gearing choices so every thing is ready when he starts. If you need another opinion as to what you should do for ratios, call me in the evening. I'll send you my land line # via dialog. Al

ALB posted:

Why do you say he won't like the .82/3.88 combo when the .89/3.44 is 2mph longer (at 3500rpm)? Is it the rpm drop from (stock) 3rd gear? Insert the .82 for 5th in gearstack #2 and the recovery rpm is still 2550 (much higher than the stock 2400rpm).

It was a slip of the finger, Al. That should have read, "The .89/3.88 is not perfect, but it's close enough for rock-n-roll."

The one combo I've never had was the .89/3.44, for the reason you stated. A .82/3.88 was just too long, even for a flat-lander with a 2110. It was ROUGH to shift into 4th going less than 60 or so. That's a lot of tugging on the shifter for normal driving.

Ted lives in a place where there are mountains. If I did, I'd think the .89/3.88 would be as long as I'd want to go (... unless somebody came up with a 6 speed).

i always ran 2 filters, one right before electric fuel pump by tank and another one on the backside of firewall

I've got the .89/3:88 now with my 2,110.  Lots of little to medium hills nearby and it feels fine, but likes it better above 55mph.  Did one trip into Southern Vermont to visit some relatives late last summer and she did just fine in the hills north out of Brattleboro, VT and up into the mountains (speed limit 60+) near the ski resorts.  I'm quite pleased with it, but you can always yearn for a 5-speed.  

.89/3:44 here

TRP posted:

I sold all of my other motors. I only have the lil-2054.

 

Say it ain't so, Ted.

You need an "anchor motor". Everybody needs a spare at one time or another. If you are truly ill, you might need a couple of 'em. 

An Anchor Motor?..."Everyone needs a spare"!!!

Great rationalization to justify the greasy clutter I've accumulated. I like that...Thank you, Stan.

You are most welcome, Mr. Berry.

Ha! I had a couple. I decided to lighten the clutter in the garage. I'm sure I will regret not keeping at least one of them. 

Should I wire up the fuel pump to a relay that shuts off during cranking/starting? I still need to wire the Setrab cooling fan to a relay so that it's off when I'm starting the car. 

What fuel pressure for dual Weber 44's?

Ted

IDF's ; 3.0-->3.5

Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Tremont, IL posted:

ALB posted:

Why do you say he won't like the .82/3.88 combo when the .89/3.44 is 2mph longer (at 3500rpm)? Is it the rpm drop from (stock) 3rd gear? Insert the .82 for 5th in gearstack #2 and the recovery rpm is still 2550 (much higher than the stock 2400rpm).

 

It was a slip of the finger, Al. That should have read, "The .89/3.88 is not perfect, but it's close enough for rock-n-roll."

The one combo I've never had was the .89/3.44, for the reason you stated. A .82/3.88 was just too long, even for a flat-lander with a 2110. It was ROUGH to shift into 4th going less than 60 or so. That's a lot of tugging on the shifter for normal driving.

Ted lives in a place where there are mountains. If I did, I'd think the .89/3.88 would be as long as I'd want to go (... unless somebody came up with a 6 speed).

Stan- Are you saying the .82/3.88 final drive was too long? (I thought you would have loved that going cross the continent like you have) Or was the stock 3rd- .82 spacing too wide? (which is why you didn't like to shift into 4th doing less than 60mph)

Al,  I had that combo in my IM and I didn't like it one bit.  With the long .82 3rd gear I found I couldn't find a 'sweet spot' when driving around the 80 kph (50 mph) mark.   It was too high for 3rd and too low for 4th.

Also, I found the rpm drop, when shifting from 3rd to 4th, to be annoying, unless I revved the crap out of 3rd gear.

Ron I am not sure if I got the right info, but on my old IM 3:44 I did find that the 3rd gear sometimes in the 60-80kph was a bit high revving and then the 4th was a bit too low so that was a bit of annoying riding one of my favourite roads, but I liked the 4th for highway cruising so I just accepted or I got used to it.   I always longed for a 5th, which is what I have now in my new build.  I also feel that it is impossible to try a lot of different ratios so best guess is what you usually decide on, depending on advice but in the end you might have to build 4 trannies before you get the one you liked if you have that privelege or opportunity.  I guess for that your name has to be Stanislaw Ray

I'm not sure I have the patience / time to build 4 gearboxes. 

My goals would be to have a first gear that is usable and the ability to cruise at 75mph on the highway. With my existing 4 speed, I have a 3.78 main shaft and a 3.88 R&P. I'm running the standard old stock 67 sedan gearing with 185/65's. I feel like I don't get but 25-30 feet before I'm shifting into second. I understand that aftermarket first, second, third and fourth gears get expensive, real quickly. 

Any suggestions on which tubing flair tool to purchase? I need to flair the fuel line ends to 37 degrees (AN fittings). I'd like to avoid buying a 120.00 tool I might use 6 times.  Is that something you can rent?

Ted

Ron O posted:

Al,  I had that combo in my IM and I didn't like it one bit.  With the long .82 3rd gear I found I couldn't find a 'sweet spot' when driving around the 80 kph (50 mph) mark.   It was too high for 3rd and too low for 4th.

Also, I found the rpm drop, when shifting from 3rd to 4th, to be annoying, unless I revved the crap out of 3rd gear.

^ that one.

I had the .82/3.88 and wanted to love it (really I did), but just couldn't, for all the reasons Ron gave. You'd be surprised how many times you are called upon to drive 50-60 mph.

That stupid gear was what sent my little train off the rails around the bend where nobody could see me. I so wanted it to work, and I felt that it was a matter of too little torque (in a 2110 with an FK43 and good heads, mind you).

vwracerdave over on TheSamba told me I didn't have an engine problem, I had a transaxle gearing problem. It made me mad so I built the barroom brawler 2332. It was still funky to drive 50-60 mph.

Swapping the .82 for a .89 with the 3.88 was really pretty close to perfect, but I wanted to be daddy long-legs, so I ended up splitting the difference with a .93/3.44. Now THAT'S a perfect highway gear, and with a 2276 I can pull off 50-60 mph easily in 4th.

... but honestly the .89/3.88 is probably better for 99% of the guys out there. It's long enough for a highway, as long as you aren't driving 85+ MPH for thousands of miles at a time.

TRP posted:

 

Any suggestions on which tubing flair tool to purchase? I need to flair the fuel line ends to 37 degrees (AN fittings). I'd like to avoid buying a 120.00 tool I might use 6 times.  Is that something you can rent?

Ted

What material are you flaring? Don't tell anybody I said this, but if it's a soft metal like copper or AL, you can do what po' folks do and just cut a flare with a 45* tool, then tighten it on a steel AN fitting. The steel fitting will act as a mandrel and get you where you need to be. Then you can spin off the steel fitting and put your line on your AL fitting. This won't work on a hard line like Stainless, but it'll be just fine if you are only cutting half a dozen flares or so.

I did it for my oil cooler and Mocal bypass filter base and it works great. I may be a lot of things you don't want to be, but I AM a pipefitter. Almost nobody realizes that the flares really do conform to the fittings.

Well I learned something new ..Thanks Stan!

TRP posted:

I'm not sure I have the patience / time to build 4 gearboxes. 

My goals would be to have a first gear that is usable and the ability to cruise at 75mph on the highway. With my existing 4 speed, I have a 3.78 main shaft and a 3.88 R&P. I'm running the standard old stock 67 sedan gearing with 185/65's. I feel like I don't get but 25-30 feet before I'm shifting into second. I understand that aftermarket first, second, third and fourth gears get expensive, real quickly. 

Caretech-IM posted:

I also feel that it is impossible to try a lot of different ratios so best guess is what you usually decide on, depending on advice but in the end you might have to build 4 trannies before you get the one you liked if you have that privelege or opportunity.  I guess for that your name has to be Stanislaw Ray

I'd feel I was being besmirched, if it wasn't all true. I keep telling everybody not to be like stupid-Stan, trying to make a silk purse from a sow's ear. Just get the 5-speed, get it built right from the start, and don't dork around trying to make something with less than 200 lb/ft of torque be perfectly geared for all terrain with only 4 gears.

V8s ran 2-speed powerglides in the '60s and got away with it-- but they had the world's slushiest torque-converters and engines that produced a few hundred lb/ft of torque at about 1500 RPM. Modern performance cars have about 8 gears. My wife's minivan has 7. I don't think 5 is asking too much.

Every time I hear a guy talking about how a 4-speed can be the poor-man's 5-speed, I wonder what planet he's from. Getting the "almost as good as a 5-speed" 4 -speed means trying a bunch of different gear-sets until you get a spread you like. Sort of. Usually. Until you are behind a log truck in the mountains and you're in that really bad spot where third is too short and fourth is too long.

I have a box I like, but it's my 3rd try. Not everybody is wired to beat their head against the wall until either the wall or their head breaks. Fortunately (or not, depending on how sensible one is), I've got a pretty thick head, so the wall eventually gave way.

Just get the 5-speed and be happy.

Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Tremont, IL posted:

TRP posted:

 

Any suggestions on which tubing flair tool to purchase? I need to flair the fuel line ends to 37 degrees (AN fittings). I'd like to avoid buying a 120.00 tool I might use 6 times.  Is that something you can rent?

Ted

What material are you flaring? Don't tell anybody I said this, but if it's a soft metal like copper or AL, you can do what po' folks do and just cut a flare with a 45* tool, then tighten it on a steel AN fitting. The steel fitting will act as a mandrel and get you where you need to be. 

.375 Stainleess.

Yeah. Sad face.

Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Tremont, IL posted:

TRP posted:

I'm not sure I have the patience / time to build 4 gearboxes. 

My goals would be to have a first gear that is usable and the ability to cruise at 75mph on the highway. With my existing 4 speed, I have a 3.78 main shaft and a 3.88 R&P. I'm running the standard old stock 67 sedan gearing with 185/65's. I feel like I don't get but 25-30 feet before I'm shifting into second. I understand that aftermarket first, second, third and fourth gears get expensive, real quickly. 

Caretech-IM posted:

I also feel that it is impossible to try a lot of different ratios so best guess is what you usually decide on, depending on advice but in the end you might have to build 4 trannies before you get the one you liked if you have that privelege or opportunity.  I guess for that your name has to be Stanislaw Ray

I'd feel I was being besmirched, if it wasn't all true. ....

Just get the 5-speed and be happy.

Oh, the 5 speed is a done deal. I'm already about $2200.00 in and I still have to have it assembled once Berg delivers. The only thing I'm on the fence about is the gearing.  Leaning toward stock 1&2. It's the 3&4 and which OD. I'd like to be able to drive  it at 75 mph on the highway for a couple of hours without sending the 2054 into pieces.

I've got time to figure it out.

Come up and drive Penny

Did I mention that my original 356 had a real nice tranny with long gearing in 2nd and 3rd, and 4th overdrive with a 1600cc.. Porsche have that nice tranny feel IMHO... With a 2054 it would be nice to see how one would get a close match with 4th closer to 3rd and a fifth O/D. .... Anyway, I found the ratios sometime ago I wonder if Berg would know these ... I think it would cost a bit more as the 1st and 2nd are costly. 

Anyway, your call will be the right call for you. Ray 

Terry Nuckels posted:

Come up and drive Penny

I know I've asked you before, Terry, but please humor me; what gears and r&p are you running?

Look at the gearing on a Ford 4R70W.  It is a wide ratio automatic, but the gear ratios would provide the same tire rotation regardless of if it was auto or manual.

I have one of those in my Mustang.  It provides excellent acceleration from a stop, yet cruises at Highway speeds at about 2,800 RPMs with 26" tires and a 3:89 rear end.  Your tires probably have a smaller diameter, so you would end up a little higher RPMs.  IIRC, every inch of tire made about 200 RPM diff at 70 MPH.

There are calculators online that can provide you with expected RPMs at various speeds if you know your gears and tire diameter. 

Terry Nuckels posted:

Come up and drive Penny

That's the best advice of the thread. We can talk and talk and talk-- there's a good guy with the transaxle you want for your part of the world, and he's offering a drive.

I'd take him up on it.

Stan Galat, '05 IM, 2276, Tremont, IL posted:

Ron O posted:

Al,  I had that combo in my IM and I didn't like it one bit.  With the long .82 3rd gear I found I couldn't find a 'sweet spot' when driving around the 80 kph (50 mph) mark.   It was too high for 3rd and too low for 4th.

Also, I found the rpm drop, when shifting from 3rd to 4th, to be annoying, unless I revved the crap out of 3rd gear.

^ that one.

I had the .82/3.88 and wanted to love it (really I did), but just couldn't, for all the reasons Ron gave. You'd be surprised how many times you are called upon to drive 50-60 mph.

That stupid gear was what sent my little train off the rails around the bend where nobody could see me. I so wanted it to work, and I felt that it was a matter of too little torque (in a 2110 with an FK43 and good heads, mind you).

vwracerdave over on TheSamba told me I didn't have an engine problem, I had a transaxle gearing problem. It made me mad so I built the barroom brawler 2332. It was still funky to drive 50-60 mph.

Swapping the .82 for a .89 with the 3.88 was really pretty close to perfect, but I wanted to be daddy long-legs, so I ended up splitting the difference with a .93/3.44. Now THAT'S a perfect highway gear, and with a 2276 I can pull off 50-60 mph easily in 4th.

... but honestly the .89/3.88 is probably better for 99% of the guys out there. It's long enough for a highway, as long as you aren't driving 85+ MPH for thousands of miles at a time.

VW was pretty smart when they designed the gearing in the type 1 transaxle; when you shift from 3rd (at 3500rpm) to 4th, the engine speed drops to about 2400rpm. At this engine speed (and road speed) the engine can function and cool itself under most conditions. You have to be really careful running an aircooled VW engine much below 2400rpm in 4th gear, as the engine isn't creating as much torque, pressing on the gas pedal creates more heat, and now the fan isn't turning fast enough to keep the engine within temperature parameters. In simple terms, it can overheat.

Widening the 3-4 gap with a .82 drops the engine speed about 200rpm and now  you have to rev it to close to 3900rpm in 3rd gear to hit 2400 in 4th. There's a 5-6mph hole where the engine is running above 3500 in 3rd and below 2400 in 4th. As Ron and Stan both found out, " You'd be surprised how many times you are called upon to drive 50-60 mph." (Stan's words). Stan got pretty good advice from RacerDave (on the Samba), as he called it perfectly; he just wasn't ready to listen.

Gearing his transaxle with the 3.44 r&p was a pretty good solution; Stan got the slightly longer 1st that many Speedster drivers are looking for without spending big bucks on a custom 1-2 mainshaft, and with the .93 4th he closed the 3-4 spacing a little bit (making the car actually more fun to drive; have I told you I love close ratio gears?) while final drive in 4th is almost identical (3.18 vs 3.19) to 3.88/.82. Nice set up for a 4 speed. He gave away stop light performance (with a 4 speed there's aways a compromise), but if you don't care about that...

Ron and Stan- I know you guys know all this. I wrote it hoping it might benefit some other people here. Al

The only thing I'd add is that I DID get the custom mainshaft with longer first and second gears before I went with the 3.44. It was perfect with the 3.88, but pretty long for a 3.44.

A nice, cheap (4-speed) solution would be the 3.44 with a stock 1-3 and a .93 fourth. Live and learn.

My head is spinning, and actually hurts trying to follow all you guys, and the numbers, being repeated over and over again.  My DD (Mazda 6) is a five speed V6 w/ lots of torque and is fun to drive.  I'll admit to having reached for the fifth gear in my Speedster more than once after getting to about 3,000 or more.  I believe my 2332 would carry a fifth gear very comfortably, and it would be cool to have an OD fifth running down the interstate.  Do not ask me what gears I have in my Pro-Street tranny, as I do not know.  Have never given it much thought, as the car seems to love all its gears, and I don't mind working my CSP shifter as may be required. This car seems to run out in fourth much like my two 356 coupes did, which is to say take the tach reading and double it to get the speed: three grand is 60 mph, pretty close.

And, looks like you guys are just trying to beat Lane on the number of pages in one thread.  I forget what that number was, but think it was more than 20.  I think you can do it . . .  However, you probably passed the useful information content back around page 10. 

I'm with you, El Frazoo! They say 5 out of 4 people have trouble with fractions, I'm in that group and all those ratios make my head spin.

Fortunately for me, my simplistic little mind just enjoys the top down sensation of driving my Speedster at whatever speed it can muster. 1835cc of power and a 4-speed with 3:88 gearing got me through 100,000 miles of cruising the coast, inter-state highways and mountain roads of CA, OR, WA, NV, UT & CO on a pauper's budget. 

I'm with you Jim, I can't even put air in the tires and have to make  trips to visit Alan in Pa just get the friggin oil changed. I drive, I stop for a drink and drive some more. However, I read every word that's been on this topic, I must have learned something. I guess I'll just ask Dr Clock what I learned.

Your learning to listen to the sound of the engine, tranny and suspension, and if someday the sound changes to call the Dr.  Ray

Thank goodness, I only have a 1641cc, and over rev at every shift. And forget listening to the engine, it's a woman.

Art

To be honest...my wife has the best solution.  "When I hear strange noises coming from our car...I just down-shift, turn up the radio, and floorboard it, my husband will find the problem later!"..............Cheers to you all..............Bruce

A little bit of internet research leads me to understand that Terry is running the following gearing:

3.88 R/P 3.80, 2.06, 1.48, 1.17, .089 

I have to admit I don't understand what all that means. Terry also has a larger motor. My goal would be to he able to dive at 75 on the highway. 

I may ask Tim at Berg what he thinks.

Thanks for all the info!