How do you make it rain in California?... buy a speedster.

Ted, a wise man once said,

A Wise Man said:

Ted, the berg shaft is FINE for your application... don't overthink it...what you got will be fine...

Remember that the main reason you're spending big bucks on five speeds is to fill the wide gap between third and fourth with two much smaller gaps. This immediately improves the quality of life and makes you a happier person. (Right away, you'll notice the difference in how small children and dogs respond to you.)

But if you then swap in a .82 for the .89, you're widening up one of those expensively obtained gaps again - making it almost as wide as your current gap between third and fourth. So yeah, the .82 will drop your revs at 80 from 3750 to 3450, but keep in mind, there's a price to pay.

The other 'price' is that when you come to a hill on the freeway, you'll have to downshift a lot sooner than you would with the .89. And now the gear you're downshifting into isn't the slight drop it would have been with the .89.

Like a lot of other things in life, there's no free ride with gearing. What you gain here, you always give up somewhere else.

I really don't like driving this car on the freeway. I tend to seek out smaller roads and take another car if I know I'm going to be on the freeway a lot. I can do 75-80 in the Speedster when I want to (or even 85-90 in a pinch), but I tend to settle down to 70 to cruise - and with the .89, that comes in at a comfortable 3250.

If you haven't already, play around with this interactive gearing mapper. Study it a while, and it will answer almost any question you might have - and probably better than any of us is able to with long-winded explanations like this.

"Al is always going to advocate for the drag-race gearing, because he can't help himself."

Thanks for the laugh, Stan! If I was strictly a drag race advocate I'd be telling anyone with a 1915 or smaller to use a 4.375 ring & pinion with close ratio gears; it'll give the best acceleration off the line (highway speeds will suck big time, but that's the price you pay with a 4 speed). Back on topic- Ted has a stock (3.78 or 3.80 with 2.06 2nd; doesn't matter which) mainshaft which, along with a 3.88 r&p, will serve well for street gears. This combination (in a 5 speed) will give a car that's still pretty snappy on the street (which he's said he doesn't want to lose) and have the highway speeds he's looking for as well. So yeah, it's what I (and others) have suggested, as it's the most economical way of doing it.

If I was setting up a 5 speed strictly for acceleration with a 2 liter (or larger) I would probably suggest a 4.125 r&p with 3.78/2.25 2nd (out of the beetle semi-automatic trans and grafted on to the 4 speed mainshaft in place of 2nd)/1.58 3rd/1.21 4th (or maybe 1.26 or even 1.31, depending on the power and rpm's it's made at) and probably .89 for 5th.

Yeah, it's possible to go longer (or taller, whichever you want to call it) with 1st gear, but you and I both know that's a fair chunk of change (1,000 or $1100) and then he'd have to have it lengthened (more $$$), and Ted's patience has already been more than tested with the resulting wait. Also, living in a hilly area, I don't know about a 1st gear much longer than the 3.88/3.78 combo. I'm not saying it can't be done; it just could be a little awkward (at certain traffic lights, stop signs and into a couple of friends' driveways- Vancouver is not flat!).

I can see where (depending on your driving style, power level of the car and locale) running a longer 1st with a 3.88 r&p would be warranted; you get a close ratio 2nd out of the deal, can tighten up the distances between the remaining gears and still get decent highway speeds out of the car. It would be a lot of fun.

Ted- using the VW mainshaft isn't cheaping out; it's the right gearing and strong enough for your application.  

Lively conversation and excellent replies!

I think at this point I'll keep the 3.88 berg with the 3.78.  I can take the money I save and get a set of Kevin's coolstop front brakes.

With that decision behind me,  I"m down to one of these two gear sets:

3.78/2.06/1.48/1.18/0.89 

3.78/2.06/1.48/1.14/0.89 

On paper they are nearly only different by 3mph in 4th. The 1.14 makes up the gap between 4th and 5th a bit. 

Al - I saw the PM, but at this point I think this sentence rang true:

"...(no matter which you pick) you'll wonder what the other is like."

I think that's the real issue. Unless you've driven a bunch, you will always wonder what the different set would have been like. At this point I'm just going to pick one.  

Do I just call up Rancho and order the gears? Anything else?  (hubs, sliders, mwchoozits, gubbons?) - I'd call Weddle but they didn't seem to have the 1.48 or 1.18/1.14 third and 4th.

Thank you so much for the info! 

Talk to whoever is going to build it.

ALB posted:

"Al is always going to advocate for the drag-race gearing, because he can't help himself."

Thanks for the laugh, Stan! If I was strictly a drag race advocate I'd be telling anyone with a 1915 or smaller to use a 4.375 ring & pinion with close ratio gears; it'll give the best acceleration off the line (highway speeds will suck big time, but that's the price you pay with a 4 speed).

Glad to help, Al.

I'll always look to you as the definition expert in gearing. You know that.

I was just poking for a chuckle (you old drag-racing, Cal-look, street bad-boy, you). 

Don't worry about me, Stan; it was taken in kind. I always enjoy your take on things, and should we one day meet I'll gladly buy the first 6 pack...

Ted, the Coolstop front brakes sound like a wicked addition!  And I said "I don't think the 2 are so different that (no matter which you pick) you'll wonder what the other is like". You're going to be so busy driving, ripping through gears with an even bigger SEG that what the other would have been like isn't going to matter! They're close enough that unless someone told you they were different you wouldn't give it a 2nd thought. As for what you need and ordering gears (and what's available)- have you decided who's going to build it?

You should come up and drive Penny, Ted.

If you can take the time (I don't know how far it is), take Terry up on his offer, Ted. It'll give you a frame of reference to base your decisions on (and take the "am I picking the right gears" thoughts right out of your head!). 

Yoda out (for now; but be back you know I will!)

If Terry swears by his gearing and it's good enough to impress Stan... that's good enough for me.  Plus, I know if i don't go with it, I'll never hear the end of Terry saying "See... you should have followed my lead..."  (kidding!!)

Ted, these gearing combinations and ratio options are way beyond my comprehension level...but to me it makes a lot of pragmatic sense to take Terry up on his offer (especially if Yoda endorses it!)  just to lay to rest future "what ifs"

Ted please take a look at this setup - 3.44 R&P 1st 3.44, 2nd 2.17, 3rd 1.48, 4th 1.09, 5th .89

The rpm drops are correct and the spacing is as good as it gets for a 5 sp 2 liter plus size engine. Stick with the 3.44 ring and pinion - don't cheap it out at this point.

Please please please get rid of that 3.78 1st! It is obsolete with a larger engine.

Use this to get a visual of your shifts. You can play it out in your head:

https://weddleindustries.com/gear-calculator

I'm using  24.5 inch tires and 3700 rpm upshifts

For that matter, how close is Rusty to you?

Have you decided who's going to put it together?

Rusty is down south in the LA / San Diego area. Terry is about 2 hours North, North East.

I sent a 3.88 out to get lengthened and that's what they sent back.  So it's 3.88.  At this point I'm not going to over think this. Al and Terry have each provided pretty similar numbers. 

The transmission is being built by Scott Sebastian out by Teby. It was the only way I'd get Teby off my lawn/out of my trees/from hiding in my bushes.

Ted

Get a big dog, and keep him hungry.  

I take great pride in my work, I want all my customers to be pleased with the outcome. After a few e-mails regarding your transmission I know that you will not be satisfied. I suggest you have the people selling you parts build your trans. I decline your offer to let me help you with your transmission.

 Scott Sebastian, Metalcraft motorsports.

Teby can now get off your lawn

mcmscott posted:

I take great pride in my work, I want all my customers to be pleased with the outcome. After a few e-mails regarding your transmission I know that you will not be satisfied. I suggest you have the people selling you parts build your trans. I decline your offer to let me help you with your transmission.

 Scott Sebastian, Metalcraft motorsports.

Teby can now get off your lawn

Hello Scott,

I'm really sorry to read this. I genuinely am. I don't know much about gearing or the trade offs with specific parts.  Please understand that by asking questions or seeking input I wasn't second guessing your knowledge or experience. I was just trying to understand my options.  My questions were just my way to learn from people who have been down this road in the past.  

Again - I apologize if the banter on here has offended you. I respect your situation and understand your decision.  No hard feelings?

Sincerely,
Ted Pierson

No hard feelings, but untill you know what you want, don't ask questions and then dismiss every answer given to you by a transmission builder, and apply every answer by a non transmission builder.

 You will not be happy with my work because the "internet" guru's say it will not work. Therefore you should have the "internet gurus" build your transmission.

 I have more work than I can handle at the momment, doing your trans would be more of a favor than anything else. So when my opinion gets blatently rejected, I have to ask why? Apparently my thoughts on a transmission don't mean squat? So be it,, I have more customers that apreciate my work 

TRP posted:

mcmscott posted:

I take great pride in my work, I want all my customers to be pleased with the outcome. After a few e-mails regarding your transmission I know that you will not be satisfied. I suggest you have the people selling you parts build your trans. I decline your offer to let me help you with your transmission.

 Scott Sebastian, Metalcraft motorsports.

Teby can now get off your lawn

Hello Scott,

I'm really sorry to read this. I genuinely am. I don't know much about gearing or the trade offs with specific parts.  Please understand that by asking questions or seeking input I wasn't second guessing your knowledge or experience. I was just trying to understand my options.  My questions were just my way to learn from people who have been down this road in the past.  

Again - I apologize if the banter on here has offended you. I respect your situation and understand your decision.  No hard feelings?

Sincerely,
Ted Pierson

You second guessed my opinion every time we talked or e-mailed.

mcmscott posted:

TRP posted:

mcmscott posted:

I take great pride in my work, I want all my customers to be pleased with the outcome. After a few e-mails regarding your transmission I know that you will not be satisfied. I suggest you have the people selling you parts build your trans. I decline your offer to let me help you with your transmission.

 Scott Sebastian, Metalcraft motorsports.

Teby can now get off your lawn

Hello Scott,

I'm really sorry to read this. I genuinely am. I don't know much about gearing or the trade offs with specific parts.  Please understand that by asking questions or seeking input I wasn't second guessing your knowledge or experience. I was just trying to understand my options.  My questions were just my way to learn from people who have been down this road in the past.  

Again - I apologize if the banter on here has offended you. I respect your situation and understand your decision.  No hard feelings?

Sincerely,
Ted Pierson

You second guessed my opinion every time we talked or e-mailed.

That would have been the first Jab, then the second,.......

mcmscott posted:

No hard feelings, but untill you know what you want, don't ask questions and then dismiss every answer given to you by a transmission builder, and apply every answer by a non transmission builder.

 You will not be happy with my work because the "internet" guru's say it will not work. Therefore you should have the "internet gurus" build your transmission.

 I have more work than I can handle at the momment, doing your trans would be more of a favor than anything else. So when my opinion gets blatently rejected, I have to ask why? Apparently my thoughts on a transmission don't mean squat? So be it,, I have more customers that apreciate my work 

Hello Scott,

After re-reading our e-mail thread I think I understand where things went sideways.  You made a suggestion on the gearing and I responded with my own gearing options. Bad form on my part. Kind of like telling your doctor how you want him to do your bypass.  It's not quite as black and white, but the result was the same.  Maybe I should have said "I ran this by some buddies and a gear calculator and this is what I think would work for me."?

E-mail and electronic communication can be rough because a person can't pickup on non verbal cues which you might get on the phone or in person.  If I had known I was offending you I would be the first person to correct that before moving forward.

That said - It would have been cool if we had settled this between ourselves.  I will take this experience with me as I look for someone to build my gearbox.

Take it easy,
Ted