Oh fount of knowledge and divine wisdom... I am looking for the following items:
1) A diagram of how my oil lines should run now that I have a Setrab, a thermo fan switch, a Mocal sammich plate, and a spin on oil filter. Assuming I have a standard full flow case.
2) A wiring diagram for the fan switch relay. I'd like to wire up the relay so that the fan does not operate when I'm cranking/starting the car.
Thanks!!
I have a thermostat controlling the fan. The instructions say to put it on the input side but, I put it on the output side thinking that sometimes there would be adequate cooling without the fan.
With the thermostat, the fan wouldn't run when starting a cold engine.
I thought I had diagrams for this stuff, but I can't find them. My oil cooler fan will spin when the starter is working AND if the fan thermostat switch calls for cooling, but it has never been an issue. From my car manual:
"The Oil Cooler Fan: Located in the driver’s side rear wheel well, it is managed by a 180° thermostatic switch in the oil line on the input side (top) of the cooler. The switch drives a relay inside of the engine compartment just ahead of the ignition coil on the driver’s side inner fender wall. Power to the fan is fed through the relay from the battery and energized by the thermostat and the ignition circuit such that, even if the fan is operating, when the key is turned off the fan will stop."
So, without a diagram, power goes from the ignition circuit ("+" side of the coil) to the thermostat switch, then the other side of the thermostat goes to the relay coil "+" side, and connect the relay "-" side to ground.
On the fan, the "-" side to ground and the "+" side to the normally open side of the relay, and the arm of the relay to a fused link to connect to the solenoid/battery post at the starter.
All I have on the oil circuit is this, so far:
Here's the section out of Pearl's service manual:
2.5.2 Internal Oil Cooler
It uses the larger, 1972, stock VW internal oil cooler within the fan shroud. The shroud must be removed to service the internal oil cooler. It has two O-rings between the cooler and the engine case and an extra cooler shroud on the back.
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2.5.3 External Oil Cooler
In addition to the internal oil cooler, the engine case has been modified for “Full Oil Flow” directly from the oil pump out of the pump cover to an external oil filter and cooler. The external cooler is a 16-pass, fan assisted, DeRale cooler mounted in the Driver’s side rear wheel well and plumbed into the oil delivery system with ½” ID hoses with AN-8 fittings. The cooler fan is driven by an electrical thermostat set at 180° which drives a relay mounted on the driver’s inner fender wall, just forward of the ignition coil, to operate the fan. The relay then turns the fan on and off as needed. There is no over-ride switch.
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2.5.4 Oil Cooler Flow Thermostat.
The oil flow to the external oil cooler is not needed when the engine temperature is below 180°, so the flow is managed by a mechanical flow, sandwich-plate thermostat located between the spin-on oil filter and the filter mounting bracket. The thermostat used was a MOCALThermostatic Sandwich Adapter from Aircooled.net, model MOC-SP1T and is installed as shown:
2.5.4 External Oil Filter
The oil filter is found next to the Driver’s side engine valve cover with a mounting bracket attached to the car frame.
The filter is a Napa Gold 1515 (a WIX 51515)
The engine oil pump has a pressure relief valve (set at 125 psi.) which is part of the oil pump cover (see more under 2.7 Engine Oil Pump).
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2.5.5 Oil Flow Description
Oil flows from the oil pump to the external filter, through the filter and into the thermostatic sandwich plate.
If the oil temperature is below180° F, the oil flows directly back into the engine to the bearing oil gallery via the port just above the oil pump.
If the oil temperature is above 180° F, the sandwich plate re-directs the flow from the filter output to the external cooler, then back to the sandwich plate, from there back into the engine oil gallery.
Some thoughts from a curmudgeonly old fart:
First, if you don't want the fan running while you crank the engine, take the feed for the fan relay from the accessory tab on the ignition switch. I wired mine that way - along with the relays for the headlights and running lights.
Next, you really don't need no stinkin' thermostatic switch for the cooler fan. A toggle switch works just fine. At first, you might think you'd be toggling on and off all day, but it doesn't work out that way.
On cool days, you don't need the fan at all. On days when you do, you flip it on when the temperature hits about mid-gauge and pretty much leave it on for the rest of the drive. There are a few situations on chilly days (mostly long downhills) when the oil will dip down a little too cool for the fan after warming up, but that's pretty rare.
And (blasphemy!) you don't really need no mofo sammich, either - at least not here in sunny Kalifornia. On any day nice enough to be driving a Speedster, your oil will be up to temp in maybe 15 minutes - quicker on toasty days. So, just don't put your fat ole boot in it until then. Which is probably a pretty good idea, sammich or no.
Another thing. Working the fan switch by hand, you start to get a feel for when the engine will begin to need extra cooling. If it suddenly needs more fan than usual, that can tip you off to problems brewing.
Bottom line is - no matter what kind of gizmos you do or don't have - you should be watching oil temp every minute you're driving one of these cars (and adjusting how you drive accordingly). It's an important indicator of the health of the engine.
There's a reason the temp gauge is right up on top where you can see it.
Kalifornia ain't like anywhere else (except for Arizona, and maybe Hawaii). If I have oil circulating through the cooler (without the sandwich bypass), I'd never come up to operating temperature except in July and August.
Stan Galat posted:...If I have oil circulating through the cooler (without the sandwich bypass), I'd never come up to operating temperature except in July and August...
Stan, we tried to tell you that 40-gallon dry sump tank was overkill.
It ain't the dry sump. My type1 has no internal cooler due to 911 shroud. I only have the external plate cooler with thermostatic fan.
I have a remote filter and an oil flow thermostat to send oil to the cooler. That thermostat stays closed a long time in spring and fall.
So bottom line if you're anywhere not in California it's probably a good idea.
out of the pump to the filter,from the filter to the cooler and out of the cooler back to the engine. your thermo switch should be before the cooler coming from the filter. you can use a relay to power the fan or not. If you have a thermostat and a thermo switch your making things more complicated than needs to be. [other than stan running a dry sump, you need that thermostat to get the oil to a decent temp]. Keep it simple!
I have set them up with a manual switch and the thermo switch to make it easy for the customer. if you just want to drive and not bother with a manual switch and for it to come on and off on it's own the thermo switch is for you. If your the type that looks at a long grade coming up and knows the temps will climb quickly and you want to turn it on in advance the manual switch is for you.
Just remember the simpler the better.
"Just remember, the simpler the better."
That's what I was always told by my engineering managers. I was doing avionics stuff waay back when and the rule for the flight crew was; "Only if they need to know something to make a decision do you alert them." That meant system monitoring (like your oil temp) was done in the background (even though the gauges were always visible) and when it got out of limits (hi or low) you did something to get their attention (light, sound, whatever) for corrective action.
I have a Mocal plate and found that the engine warms up in 5-10 minutes regardless of the outside temp, from 20F to 90F, and that plus the external cooler keeps everything between 180F and 205F regardless of the outside temp, how hard I drive it or any hills/mountains here in New England.
I never worry whether I should be turning on the fan - it just happens. Something as critical as a cooling fan I don't want to have to remember - I want it to be automatic because I'll probably ignore it or worry about it (but that could just be me! )
And my hose routing is what Anthony described.
My system is pretty much the same as Gordon's
I disagree Anthony. A well-designed system to automatically regulate the oil temperature is not over-complicating things. On my car, which is a Spyder with no integral cooler, the thermostat is needed. Thermostats and thermo-switches are quite reliable. I keep an eye on my oil temperature, but don't need to obsess about it or manually remember/forget to flip a switch. It isn't 1950 anymore.
I'm OCD. I obsess about everything. Just ask my wife.
Gordon Nichols posted:I'm OCD. I obsess about everything. Just ask my wife.
She is still with you 
... your doing ok then
Keep Hawaii out of it, we ain't like anywhere else! Volcano just erupted again...
Here is a diagram of how I hooked the hoses up. You won't have the Accusump or check valve. Connect the input to the cooler at the bottom so you don't have to deal with air in it.
I appreciate all of the ideas on the oil system. We're never short on ideas.
I think I'm overthinking the Mocal. If I'm looking at the image above properly...Oil pump to the "In" on the filter bracket. From the filter bracket "out" back to the oil galley/block. Thread on the sammich plate. The sammich plate just gets plumbed to the cooler. Follow Anthony's advice and put the fan switch in line to the cooler.
Everything works as expected and we're off to the beer garden...Right?
The only other question I have is regarding bolting to (through) the square sub frame in the rear. I've always been leery of bolting clear through square hollow tubing because eventually you can buckle the walls. I've always thought you should drill through and then weld in a sleeve to run your bolts through. I'm trying to bolt the oil cooler bracket to the square sub frame behind the rear tire. I could weld the bracket on I suppose. Am I over thinking this again?
I bolted through the tube. It is best to bet the holes near the middle of the tube vertically.
Everything works as expected and we're off to the beer garden...Right?
Yup
The only other question I have is regarding bolting to (through) the square sub frame in the rear. I've always been leery of bolting clear through square hollow tubing because eventually you can buckle the walls. I've always thought you should drill through and then weld in a sleeve to run your bolts through. I'm trying to bolt the oil cooler bracket to the square sub frame behind the rear tire. I could weld the bracket on I suppose. Am I over thinking this again?
Yup.
(3) 3" long, 1/4 X 20 bolts with stop nuts. I used a piece of 3" X 2-1/2" aluminum angle plate as a bracket for the filter mount (It was kicking around in my scrap box) and just bolted everything up. The filter is mounted such that it hangs with the threaded end up so I can pre-fill it when I do oil changes (remember, I'm OCD) and when removed it doesn't dump oil all over everything.
The filter is just to the rear of the valve cover so I can get the cover off and adjust things with the filter and exhaust in place.
Here is the cooler and filter:
here's the cooler and fan switch:
A look at hoses from filter to engine and the filter mount:
All hoses were made up from templates provided by me. The place I used was "Tubes and Hoses" - They're nation wide, but any place that makes up hydraulic hoses can do them.
Looks good, Gordon. I'm super excited. I think I'll have the car running this weekend.
Whooohooo!
@Gordon Nichols said- "but any place that makes up hydraulic hoses can do them."
The only thing to watch out for is to not fall into the temptation to use hydraulic fittings (which are somewhat less costly), as some are quite restrictive, and engine bearings need oil flow through them.
TRP posted:I appreciate all of the ideas on the oil system. We're never short on ideas.
I think I'm overthinking the Mocal. If I'm looking at the image above properly...Oil pump to the "In" on the filter bracket. From the filter bracket "out" back to the oil galley/block. Thread on the sammich plate. The sammich plate just gets plumbed to the cooler. Follow Anthony's advice and put the fan switch in line to the cooler.
Everything works as expected and we're off to the beer garden...Right?
The only other question I have is regarding bolting to (through) the square sub frame in the rear. I've always been leery of bolting clear through square hollow tubing because eventually you can buckle the walls. I've always thought you should drill through and then weld in a sleeve to run your bolts through. I'm trying to bolt the oil cooler bracket to the square sub frame behind the rear tire. I could weld the bracket on I suppose. Am I over thinking this again?
TED................. drill into the square frame tube, use a nutsert. you can get them from Olander in mtn view or santa clara. they have them in metric. we use them often. the tool is available or make your own. when I mount to the inner panel we make a plate on the inside to take the load. After seeing many cars from all the manufactures and the use of tex or sheet metal screws in to the frame a few holes for the oil filter or cooler isn't a big deal.
