How does your car ride?

I was wondering. Typically with a kit car, when you place a fiberglass body on a VW chassis, the car still drives and handles like a VW. But what about the Vintage Speedster and others? I drove a used Intermaccanica Roadster today, and I was surprised at how smoothly it drove. You would not know it was a replica. Is the Vintage the same way? What about the other brands???
David

David,
I was quite suprised as well the first time I drove my Fiberfab. Having built and drove other fiberglass kits and I expected the speedster to be much the same but it seems much stronger and more capable.

David:

I've had the pleasure of driving a bunch of different 356 style cars recently, IM, VS, Several CMS's and a JPS Speedster, as well as a 550 Spyder on a tube frame. All of the Speedsters rode pretty much the same, although in varying degrees of stiffness, depending on what suspension mods had been made, tire pressure and so forth, and all were quite comfortable on both back roads and highways. ALL of them have this very minor "porpoise" effect on highways, where they kind of have a slight, repetitive bounce, which was also common with the VW sedans of years ago, and also exists in the "real" 356's I've driven recently, so I attribute it to the suspension.

The 550, handled flatter, rode stiffer and sat somewhat lower than any of the Speedsters. I never drove it on a highway, so can't comment on that.

Hope this helps.......gordon

My perspective comes from years of abusing the real deals; they remain top notch in my book for old school 60's driving thrills.

My Vintage arrived and I was quite surprised how 'familiar' it felt when I backed it off of the transporter. But after a few years of driving and swapping different engines along the way, it remains a steeped in the fifties, not a VW, but 'chancey'.

My car now is heavily shored up and braced to support much-o engine and it is a unique driving experience unlike my old speedsters.

At Knotts this past year Stan Galat and I took one of Henry's cars for a ride to a few unscheduled counties (OK, someday I'll learn to read a map) and I got to drive the first leg of the journey.

Night and day from my pan-based replicar. Not as 'floaty' at speed, very civilized. Brakes were solid. It felt like a present-day car in an old car body (and what a body).

I think I said that right. Pan-based feels sort of authenticly speedster, with a strong VW overtone. IM feels 'new-car' and perhaps a little more confidence inspiring?

My IM, probably the one that Paul drove with Henry enroute to Knotts, is far more refined than my Vintage was. That said, I enjoyed every mile that I put on in my Vintage Speedster.

I owned a very nice pan based car... maybe not as tight as Pauls on steering, or even close to his on handling, but a nice one. It was not, as Gordon says: the same as my IM, "based on tire psi and other factors". My VS was ok, but not "confidence" inspiring. Yes, a few pan cars are very well set up, and track better than others.

My IM is on another planet as far as handling. No slight intended on my great VS... none at all. But, my IM with rack and pinion steering with a new custom built column (IM supplied), sways, konis, 24mm torsion bars, lighter CB AL W5 Discs at all corners, and 6x15 9 lb wheels, Potenza RE950s, all tied to a very well built frame... will drive circles around my pan car.... and tracks very well at 100+ mph with room to go on tall gears and RPMs. And it is very predictable in twisties, and you can really put it through the paces.. It "actually" feels like a sports car.... what a concept. Oh, and it does not porpoise on highways at speed.

No bragging, just the facts.

thanks guys.
David

Porpoising is a good term for a Vintage at speed. Plowing instead of cornering. Try and drift if you dare, most likely you'll get introduced to tire scrub and then roll over. Stiff is what I have to accomodate all the torque. It ain't subtle.

What sort of front end components are in the IM cars? Do they use a modified VW beam, aluminum aftermarket, or proprietary front suspension altogether. I'm assuming that they run an aftermarket rack steering, but what else?

Thanks !

TC

I drove an IM a few days ago at J. Stefanos in Hickory, NC. I was amazed at how well it handled. It definitely had that new car feel in an old car body. I loved it. My VW pan Spyder drives as you would expect. It sits on a VW, so it drives something like a VW. Still a fun ride, but there seemed to be so much difference. I think if I were to buy one now, I would have to go with IM based on that first impression. But I have heard good things about Vintage. I am afraid of CMC because of the stories I have read.
David

IM uses VW beam with the option of a rack/pinion to replace the worm/roller that is standard. I believe Henry told me that his application/mounting of the beam increases the caster of the original format on a pan. Jim Ward and Dale Bates among others may be able to confirm or deny that statement, as they took the "factory" tour.

I think (I'm guessing here) that Henry places his front tube attach points farther out along the front torsion bars to make the entire front end stiffer. The original 356's had a slightly wider headset than their VW counterparts, and that made a big difference in their handling and "feel". I also heard from John Steele, recently, that he was now making his front headset wider for that same reason. I may check this idea out this weekend when I see the cars from the Type 356 club and can easily compare "real" versus "replica".

Thoughts, anyone??

gn

If Gordon's correct, I wonder if a couple of triangulated bars running from the top and bottom of the beam set farher out and coming back to a welded plate mount on the pan, all heim jointed and and adjustable (similar to the "hair pins" used on tube front axle street rods/VolksRods), might not help make the front end stiffer. Proven design, easy to make, simple to mount.

Maybe?

I have owned both a Vintage and my current ride, a SAW Cabriolet. Having driven both on the same set of twisties between home and Loudon, I feel confident that the SAW proprietary chassis is dramatically better. The combination of suspension, tires (B.F. Goodrich Traction T/A radials) and weight distribution makes a tidy package.

As far as comfort goes, my "old coot" body was able to endure the trial of a 2000 mile plus (one way) trip to L.A. without any trouble. The banzai charge return trip in three days gives further testament to the level of comfort I experienced.

David, take a ride in as many of them as you reasonably can and decide which one you like the best. There is little doubt in my mind that all of them are good products; in the final analysis, you are the only one who has to be pleased with your choice.

I just went out and measured the distance between the mounting bolts for the front end. It looks like it is about 26 inches between the bolts. That may relate to the better ride in a frame IM, but no matter what you do, it will never ride as nice as my neighbors new Bentley Continental GT.

Hey Johnny2bolts,
Know Nolan Scott?? He had a Perry Spyder. I have one now I am trying to sell. From what I read, I may be leaning toward a SAW if I can sell my Spyder. I know they are new, but I am in NC and can make a trip to Knoxville without too much hubbub. If I can sell the Spyder, I think I will go check those out.
David

David, yes I have exchanged e-mails with Nolan. He is planning to visit SAW next weekend. I may be dropping by if my schedule will allow it. E-mail me off line and let me know when you are coming to SAW.
John

Haven't planned the trip yet. I placed my black Spyder on EBAY last night. If it sells, which I think it should, it may not be too long.
David