How Fake Is Fake ???????

I've been told that my little car is an early IM, how can I tell? Is there a forum or website I can go to and find out what to look for??

Thanks


I just want to know how fake is fake :)

Post detailed pics

Hello, Doc Clock

Some of the guys on here think that I'm alot like you in the action of buying cars fixxing them up and then saling themand starting a new project. By the way I spyed at some of your pictures, you've got some cool ideas.

Speaking of pictures, what detailed areas do you need to see??

thanks for your help

Interior and general close ups will help, of course sending pics to Henry at IM should "certifiy" ~Alan

rear deck hinge, bonnet hinge, along with the type of supports, IM uses gas struts and some times has IM stamped in the hinge (mine does not I think)Lots of ID plates on door jamb and several other places. Don't rembember now but I did see info on IM searches in the archives. I think the early IM speedster molds ended up with CMC anyway so all are related anyway.

Dave

Here's a couple of shots I have already. Can you guys tell from thease or do you need others????

Thanks again

Kevin, your dash treatment looks like a Vintage. The seats also, but a better shot of the seat bottom would be nice. The door tops also seem like Vintage. These are guesses, as I am no expert. The early IM cars, 1976-1980 usually had 914 guages, a full pad dash,speedster buckets. But if someone ordered a kit, anything goes. Those BRM? wheels look great!

Hmmm... The interior is clearly Vintage, although the dash "eyebrow" looks more like an IM (beading behind it, French seam on front), but that could have been added to an IM or CMC sometime in the past.

Fake is such a nasty word.................I prefer, "Improved", specifically that one day you won't be going along like Fred Flintstone with you feet hanging out the bottom.

The history is interesting,

www.autohistories.com/intermeccanica/intermeccanica_history

but I fear that a lot of them, at least the ones I looked at are a mixture of parts. I am taking mine and piecing together the restoration with the best prices.

Isn't the bottom framing the best way to figure it out guys? Everything above that could have come from any number of subcontractors. And in the end, does it really matter as long as the body sparkles and the motor is what you want and the frame doesn't flex and supports a better than 356 suspension and brakes. The builders probably have changed vendors a dozen times on all the parts. You guys even say that some of the alleged builders buy them from others and just mark them up. Just enjoy the bloody thing.

Kevin, I gave up trying to figure out who built my car. I sent photos to Kirk at VS and he thinks he built it but has no records going back to '93. My interior is almost identical to yours and most of the other stuff as well. As long as I can keep it going I'm just as happy to call it a VS. Happy motoring. Al

Early Intermeccanicas had 914 gauges ans nameplates on the driver side opening. They also had speedster style seats.
Your interior is definitely Vintage. It's possible someone restored the interior using a kit from Vintage, but why would you shorten the dash material then?
I think you have a Vintage.
Good looking! I like the BRMs.

One last hint; if the right front fender looks misaligned with respect to the side of the car it's a Vintage. The mold used by Vintage was done using an original Speedster that had had a less than stellar repair on the right front fender; obviously all VS's have that glitch. Stand at the back of the car and look towards the front on the right side of the car; if the front fender sort of bulges out and doesn't follow the same line as the rest of the car we've got a winner!!

I heard about the right front fender thing and my car does NOT have it. The Fender is staight without the VS hump.

Is there anyspot where they mark them besides the door jams (mine does not having anything in the jams). I've built more then my fair share of cars and every one has a couple of secret things that I do. You know so that if I ever become a Chip Foose or Boyd Codington, the cars I've already built become worth more... Ya Right.....

If you guys tell me what pictures to put up I'll take them and post them. If there is some type of idenifying thing I'll look for it. This is driving me crazy..... The only tag on the whole car I've found so far is on the engine and says Strickly VW from Irvine Ca. The car does have an exhaust system that I have not seen before. It's a dual mufler system that is tucked up by the valve covers. I've been in the VW seen for over 20 years and never seen one like this. I have recently seen one on a car here in San Diego that sold on e-bay, but that guy did not know who built his kit either....

Help

TERRY, DOES YOUR RIGHT FENDER BULGE OUT? OF ALL THE VINTAGE AND JPS SPEEDSTERS I HAVE SEEN I HAVE NEVER FOCUSED ON THAT.

RICARDO WHERE DID U COME BY THAT INFO?

Gerd,
Ricardo's right about the fender. You wouldn't see it because it's only on standard speedsters, not the flared bodied.
John Steele told me he developed a way to repair the bulge during construction. I haven't seen his correction yet.
Kevin, did you buy your car as is in the photos or did you do some restoration?
If you don't have a clue of it's origin why don't you call or email Henry Reisner at Intermeccanica? He'll give you some thoughts as to whether or not it's an IM.
Where are you located?

Hi Kevin

My thoughts:

Early IMs had small almost oval black plastic defroster vents.

They also had the heating ducted through the subframe. Yours
looks like it's routed as per Vintage Speedsters.

The thickness of the wheel well openings looks thinner than
the original IM.

The license plate light would be a little bit lower on an IM.

Front and rear hinges should have "Intermechanica" cast on them.

The bumpers on early IMs are bolted on the body, not through
the body to the subframe.

These observations are based on a '78 IM I used to own.

Forgot something else, the tail lights and front turn signals if original to the car would have a "SWF" logo on them. I'm sure there
is more I can't remember right now.

Way Cool! Then I definitely have an old IM! I have Intermeccanica on my engine lid hinges, HAD 914 gauges, my heater ducts are in the subframe, and I have those little black vents on the dash. But I don't have any door plaques. Do you think Henry would reissue some to me? And where can I find the necessary info to give him?

I was planning on capping the heater vents and either replacing or filling the defrost vents when I redo the interior this winter. Would that be a bad thing? I think the dash vents look cheesy and since I don't have, and probably won't ever have, heat in my car I figured why bother with the heater vents? They can always be put back as I'll only cap them, not fill them in. And I was hoping to put something a little more "correct" looking for the defrost vents. Any suggestions?

I mean, I know these cars aren't "real" but, if I have something that is of value in this little world of replica cars I'd hate to de-value it in any way.

I have the little black, bean shaped, defroster vents on my CMC.

Has anyone replaced these with the type on Vintage and JPS cars?

I am wondering if the replacement vents would cover the hole in the dash for the old vents.

It looks like the Beck vents are wider in the short direction. But the Vintage and JPS vents may be more authentic Looking.

I haven't really decided if I like the looks of the long chrome vents, even if they are more authentic.

Thanks.

Dammit Recardo! I'm sorry you told us about the misaligned front right fender on a VS. I went right out and looked at mine and sure as anything there it was. Looks like right front of the car is starting to turn before the rest of it! I never noticed that before---the left one isn't straight either but only just slightly "off" and nothing like the right fender. What you learn on this site.

It will be interesting to see how many other brands of Speedsters use the same mold now that we have a clear way to tell. I had heard that more than a couple of builders use thise same molds but have nothing solid to confirm that.

I wonder how many VS have been made like that---all of them? It must be a difficult mold fix,I guess.

I still love my Vintage and the right front fender is likelt there for authenticity---like the steering wheel off center.

---Jack

Jack, it's not often that us CMC guys get to chuckle at the misfortunes of others.
Thanks for that!

I'm gonna go out tonight and emboss "Intermeccanica" onto my hood and engine cover hinges just to mess with all your heads.

Then I'm gonna get TC to make me a door jamb plate that says "Faux Intermeccanica"

(Sorry, Henry.....just messin wid'cha!!)

Hey! How many of you'se CMC'ers can say that you gave Henry Reisner a ride home from Dinner in your CMC????

Gordon

Mickey,
Don't remove the vents... Cap 'em if you want, but dont' remove them.

angela

Guys; I learned that here on this site; all I'm doing is sharing the love by repeating it once again!!

Some of you guys are truly sick...not only do you drive a replica, now you want to replicate to match a certain replicator.....

Having relatives in WV - I just dun't no --- but since Frank Reisner sold his orignal Speedster molds to CMC in 1976-1979 (according to the Intermeccanica History web link) aren't they blood related kin (at least 1st cousins)? Now Cory's "mutt" just might be the bastard child but his ride is definitely bit-hin'

I guess I shouldn't be saying anything living in California, but I heard that in that neck of the woods everyone's family tree has only one branch......

and it hangs pretty low to the ground, too....

;>)

And after the lawyer told the young hick his divorce was final, he asked "Is she still my sister?"
bada bump......

About the original Intermec molds being sold to CMC; that's what I heard too. All I know is that the body in Jjr's CMC is pretty heftily constructed; it's thick.

Yeah, it is sometimes amazing how thick the CMC bodies are in some places. The areas where the windshield Posts mount are supposed to be 1/4" thick. Mine were about 5/8" and I've heard of some being 3/4" thick.

Other parts of the body are the same, although usually not consistently, but it seems that, if they erred, they erred on the THICK side!

Hey, it must not be very hard to make a mold (or steal it). I was talking to a guy in the Yukatan in Mexico that showed me a picture of his shop with multiple glass molds in it he made. The first guy had it tough in the old days, but now, they can make as many as the market will buy. If I find the picture, I'll post it. I think a lot of the "better" ones are block sanded out and smoothed rather than just finished off. The devil is in the details (finish, parts, etc.). I am sure if they ever thought that there was a market, the Chinese would crank them out like lawn furniture. Luckilly, you have to be "special" to want one and the Chinese think Americans want SUV's.

Fred Adler
San Diego