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Steven O'Brien wrote, (quite a post, Steve O) :
"But, it has air bags, crumple zones, ABS, good handling, a top that pretty much doesn't leak, weighs about twice what the replicas weigh, xenon lighting, good (hated) seats/head restraints, AC, good heater, DIF, electronics, motor, steering, suspension ... and all that stuff made by a REAL car company (BMW)."

Ok, my car;

Doesn't have air bags
Actually it has the same thing as crumple zones, don't be such a fool
My car way out handles a Z3
My top doesn't leak
Weighs half as much
Has H4 Headlights which shine farther away then my stopping distance, so what's the point
Head restraints
A/C
Good Heater
Modern Motor
Rack and Pinion that is better then wife's Mazda Protege'
Excellent suspension considering the wheel base
But not made by a "real car company"

You can go to McDonalds and get a hamburger if you want, it's safe and secure and for most people it is the best choice. Of course most people are weak, uninspired, pussies.
Steven, I used to have great respect for you. But, once again I am proven foolish. Once I tho't your car was the best thing since sunshine. But, I've seen your car at Carlisle ... and I've seen you, too. I think you spend too much time at Mickey Dees, m'friend. If I were in your face I'd eat your pussy lunch.

I am fully aware of Steve's Subie/356 company. He's a really nice fella, but IF I wanted a car from him ... I'd have to wait until my kids were outa college before I'd see one. What's he produce yearly? Four ... five cars? If that? A real car company? What's his 6 year warranty like, Steve O? Do you have to drive from Iowa to Tennessee to have it fixed ... IF it can be fixed? Pretty funny, m'friend.

You call me a fool, Steve? Crumple zones ... you have the same thing as such? Tell me how many cars Steve at SAW rammed into a wall to comply with federal safety standards? Wonder how many BMW did? Who's really the fool here, bro?

Then there's the top you speak about. I watched you and a friend at Carlisle put you "non-leaking" top up and down. I think I had an entire beer as you 2 jokers worked to get it down ... then up .. then down .. .then part way up ... then down. My Z3 takes 10 seconds up or down. And, my top only takes ONE person ... not some "friend" to help. Pretty funny. My top only leaks when I spray it with my power washer. How 'bout yours?

And, since we were originally speaking about safety here, your car weighing 'half as much as mine' is not a good thing, Martha. Something I sorta remember from physics (not psychiatry) that has to do with mass, acceleration, and such. Wonder which car would do better when hit from behind by an F250 4x4? I tho't you would be better at physics, Steve O.

Now, SAW makes a good car .... about one a year. But, that said, how much did you spend on your car, Steve O? $40K .... naw, I suspect it's more like $50K or more. I spent $22K. What does Steve at SAW give you for a warranty? A year? And, who fixes it? Some Subie dude in Ft. Dodge? Or, do you drive it all the way back to SAW? Or, have it towed? BMW dealers are EVERYWHERE ... and I have a 6 year extended warranty on this USED car. I still have over a year on it. How much is left on your warranty, Steve?
Yeah, you have a 'good heater and A/C' .... hell, even head restraints (whoo hoo !), modern motor (used Subie? ... what's the warranty on that lump?), and a R/P steering that out handles you wife's Mazda'? Out handles a Mazda Protege'? That's something to aspire to, Steve. I wonder if the Miata out handles your wife's economy car? WOW ! BTW, I was surprised you had a wife.

So, Steve, you can see that I am no longer enamored with you or your car.

And, I don't know what think abut the McDonald's reference referred to. You are much more of a pussy than I am, m'friend. BTW, I'd consider stopping smoking, Steve ... and maybe lose a couple elbs before calling me a pussy.

OK, OK .... I know some of you will have your pantyhose in a knot about this post. I have an excellent flame suit. But, here's a couple points. Replicas are not as safe in a crash as a REAL modern ....repeat, MODERN .... car. I'm not speaking about a '57 -'64 real Porsche. BTW, I've had a few '60s cars ... they were not very safe to crash in either. Rusty, too. Another point, replicas are not real cars. They are plastic 'look-a-like' deals with parts from various makers for motors, suspensions, interiors, brakes, steering and such. Like building a street rod .... or dune buggy. (Sorry I wrote that)

If you and your 'special someone' are out in a 356 replica (and there are many different vintages) and are in some sort of accident, you would do better in the Protoge' than in the replica. A Mazda Miata (or S2000, GM roadster, Z3, or such) will be pretty much less money, better ergos, better fit and finish, and just as much fun ... and will hold their value better than a replica. Perhaps I'm incorrect ... but, again ... it's just opinion, babe.
My Z3 ... altho not a perfect car compared to my 993 or 997 ... serves me fine for my use. It is a REAL car, made by a REAL BIG company which makes 10s of thousands of these cars, it's pretty neat (for many) to drive, and has many ergos that many folks like (heated seats, GREAT A/C, air bags, real crumple zones, xenon lamps, yada, yada). Yes, it is 'parts bin car' ... so be it. I like it. Pretty inexpensive, too.

I've been on this and several other 356 MBs for some time. I know how you folks roll ... I've even seen how some of you roll. I'm glad that you are happy with your cars. I happy that you are a clique that feels they can attack me as well. So be it. I'm a big boy. I like 356 cars ... ever since 1963ish when I saw my first REAL one. Don't disparage me because you have a plastic replica of the same. If I had the choice between a real car for $40k and a replica for the same money ... new car .... I'd choose the replica. There are several replica company's that make great cars ... but, still not as safe as modern mass built cars.

And, that's how I have earned my right to post here ... and give my opinions, too. If you don't like it ... cut my cord.


Bagger; I definitely understand where you're coming from, get all your points totally and agree with you that the replicas are death traps but.....no other car has the style of an old 356, right? The BMW's look good but over here every yuppie and their grandma has one...you should see the look on their faces when I pass by in my lowly VW in disguise; they wish they had one!
Bagger,
What can I say?
Pretty entertaining post!
You are right on the money regarding safety and reliability. No question about it.
And you know as well as everyone on this site does. These little replicas are toys. They're not built to replace your daily driver. They're more of a working, full-scale, plastic model. We're all risking our lives whenever we take them out for a spin. But, what the hell, you could step off the curb and be hit by a bus tomorrow.
I'm glad you found a car that works for you and I appreciate what you had to say in your initial post. You answered the question based on your experience and expectations. Just what the original poster asked.
It's too bad that things can get nasty so quickly. Very entertaining, though.
Keep posting, dude.
Jeez Bagger! A little touchy aren't we? I have no idea who you are as I'm still a little new around here but if what I read is who you are, well than you're an a$$hole! What does taking personal jabs at someone have to do with cars?! If you want to bust on someone about someting they wrote than go for it, but to start in on someone about their weight or smoking is just mean, what are you 6 years old!? Name calling, challenging someone to a fight?
Z3's are fine cars, as are some replicas ( as you pointed out ) but where does the tough guy BS part come in? Did you switch to decaf or something? Lighten up my man, take a drive in that little convertible and relax, maybe get that sick out of your ass. Wow.
There's a good reason why every time you see someone's great granny or gramps hunched over the wheel doing 45 in a 65 they are driving the biggest American luxo-boat they can get their wizened hands on; it's because they know DAMN WELL they are going to plow into someone or something and they want as much metal between them and their target as possible. If this is how you feel deep inside then by all means, sell your poor neglected Porsches and your girly Z3 (come on now, a Z3?) and get an International CXT. Or just take the bus. Or better yet, stay home and call people fat on the internet, that's relatively safe.
And Bagger, you seem like the kind of guy who has been on a forum or two. I don't think the "quote all the stuff I don't like and destroy each point with awesome logic and cool insults" is really the right tone for this site. This is a friendly, helpful forum of people with common interests and goals; but I guess I can make an exception for you just this once. So:

" Jeeze ... I tried to write a post, but was told it was too long. I tho't this was proper message board. Guess not."

OK, you got us there. I suppose that we should be able to copy and paste a whole book in the reply box. That would be fun to read.


"Thanx, John ...I'm not a shrink, never been to one either. But, I'm not sure what your point is. Perhaps you should see a shrink to get over your confusion problems."

His point is you sounded like you were whining to your head doc (as in, someone paid to pretend to care) about your personal hangups. I guess you needed that spelled out more clearly.


"...I have a right to my opinions regarding the safety of replicas as do you. So that's why I go slummin' 'round here, bro. And, I've been in this venue longer than you have, Grasshopper."

I think he meant since you have decided some time ago that a plastic tub is not safe enough for your precious arse, why are you here? A fine question.


"Steven...I've seen you, too. I think you spend too much time at Mickey Dees, m'friend. If I were in your face I'd eat your pussy lunch." "...BTW, I was surprised you had a wife." "And, I don't know what think abut the McDonald's reference referred to. You are much more of a pussy than I am, m'friend. BTW, I'd consider stopping smoking, Steve ... and maybe lose a couple elbs before calling me a pussy."

Nice. You sure showed him. To clarify for you, again, he didn't call you a pussy personally--but did infer that you drive a McCar. I guess the "most people are weak, uninspired, pussies" bit touched a nerve with you? Awwww. See, this is like therapy! Let all those feelings out!

OK,
i will post what i hope is the last reply to this thread...
i lost my 18 year old son in an auto accident Christmas 2 years ago...he was stopped on the freeway at the backed up Winchester off ramp on the I-15 when a big rig truck hit him from behind at 85 mph...it really didn't matter whether he was driving a Geo Tracker, a Volvo, an SUV, a BMW, a replica or even had crumple zones....his car pretty much exploded and the ensuing fire shut the freeway down for most of the day....

so...do i still drive my 'unsafe' 30 year old IM?
every chance i get!!!
Frank
First of all Frank, I want to say how sorry I am about your son, from the bottom of my heart. Second I want to apologize for the continuation of this thread...

Hey Bagger, i wrote the slummin comment as a joke, and it doesn't even sound like a poke at you. You should understand that you can't get invited into the house that the replica porsche built, look around and then piss on the couch, and not expect to get a bruise or two on your way out....I suspect you won't be showing up at Carlisle next year either now that you have stepped up and challenged people to fights and all...in all seriousness, do you think I could go over to the Z3 site and start spouting about how its a hairdressers car and why would a man ever drive such a cutsie car and not have someone get their hackles up?

Still, all valid points you make, and also EXTREMELY obvious ones. I don't think anyone here bought their replica thinking it was a BMW Z3. Eyes wide open man...

James
WOW, what a thread.....I love this site....
Is this entertainment or what? Anyone who does not donate to this site is one cheap son-of-a-bitch.....
I think I have a new hero...this Mr Bagger is my kinda guy.....
I love the way he starts a rant for no apparent reason....
and has the balls to admit he drives around in a Fem Z3....
and wants to kick everybody's ass....Bagger, don't you dare leave this site....
Oh, and by the way we all know that on a porcupine the prick is on the outside.....
God Vince! I'm LOL here!! And please, don't say I'm a cheap bastard, my subsription expired recently but I'll renew immediately!!

And Frank; I also want to tell you I was really moved by your post and am really saddened by your loss; I can't even begin to fathom the pain of losing one of your offspring.
I view my car as a four wheeled motorcycle. Whenever I ride a cycle, I'm in a different zone, being in a more defensive mode and very aware of what goes on around me. I drive the Speedster in this very mode. If you get hit hard, your gonna get hurt. Accidents happen. Driving around in an eggshell is my choice and do everything I can to keep it in one piece.
That's the trade off to drive a bitchin' design that's rarely seen.
Sure, the Z3 is way safer, BUT it ain't a Speedster, PAL...and when parked side by side, the Z3 would hardly be noticed.

~WB
Holy Pissin' Match, Batman! Go away for a week's vacation, and: Who let the dogs out?? Looks like bagger is gone, to which I'd say not quite soon enough, the "entertainment" quotient notwhithstanding. When I need to hear someone insult another for no apparent reason, I'll go turn on an old Rodney Daingerfield (?) tape. Can we all agree that "safe" is a realtive term, and smaller and lighter is not safer on today's highways? Pay your money, be sensible, take your chances. And a good roll bar MIGHT help.
I am sorry, that he thought I was attacking him. I was just arguing that his post wasn't completely accurate and pointing out where in my opinion it wasn't correct in regards to my car.

In his response I have to agree with the following;

No I shouldn't smoke, in fact I smoke a lot and then don't smoke at all. I know it's weird.

Yes, I should loose some weight, I am a fatty. You never know I may need an organ one day....I'm just kidding!!!!!!!! Lighten up.

"My top only leaks when I spray it with my power washer. How 'bout yours?"

In answer to the question, no, my top does not leak. Actually, I'm a little surprised it doesn't....you can ask Lambros for an honest verification of that fact.

In fact the top is a little harder to put up then a lot of tops. Do I need two people, no, but it is quicker then going around to both sides, yes. And that's what friends do, they try to help you out. I think a lot of what I like to call the "clunkiness" of putting my top up is created by the extra hardware that ensures a tight consistent fit that prevents it from leaking. I guess you have to take some of the bad with the good.

You can reproduce my car without the expensive sunvisor's, expensive original converted radio, and overrider tubes for about 39k. But I consider it a complement that you think it cost 50k or more.

Sunvisors custom made....650
Overrider Tubes custom.... 1200
Chrome Bumperettes (NLA) to hold overrider tubes 800
Stereo 900

That doesn't include the 3000 dollars for the Alex Biven rims that I got for 2000.

Do I regret or would I change anything. Maybe only the stereo....I like the Porsche cover plate just as much....40 dollars.
The only time I ever put the top up and down and then back up at Carlisle was to demonstrate something, but since you were busy drinking a beer, you probably didn't realize what I was doing and therfore how irrelevant your comment on the top really is in this context.

I think you should definitely come to Carlisle next year. I have no hard feelings towards you at all.

"If I were in your face I'd eat your pussy lunch"
This comment is very, very disturbing. Not that there's anything wrong with that. (Seinfeld) LOL.
I bought my wife a Z4. Nice car, but very boring to me. Thats why I ride custom Harleys instead of Hondas. Yes, I know Hondas are technically superior bikes, but they just don't get the testoterone going like a Harley, or in our case, like a Speedster.
BTW, the Z4 cost $52k, and when I sold it 20 months later I got $28k for it. BMW resale values suck.

Mike
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