How to make a great running car even better

do you know what pressure you were running at before you did this mod?

no need for a fancy filter like that.  generic regulators do the same thing for ~$20

niiiice looking setup though.  is that the same setup you used?

My 2110 with dual dels loads up all the time when I back off quickly. I have yet to find anybody to solve the problem. Appears to be only the left side carb.

Might this be, at least a possible fix?

Right side carb seems fine, so this sounds like a problem specific to the left carb, but I'm just wondering.....

How can I find it on ebay, do you have a link?

BobG....  Sounds like float level.

Yeah, I thought so, too.......or a leaky pilot valve.  You have to remove the carb top cover to check out either one, so there you go, but the float level makes more sense, given the symptoms.

Bob- Do you have the typical Dellorto fuel arrangement where the fuel hose goes to the left carb and then across to the other carb, instead of the T fitting that Webers use?

ALB:

Yup! Braided line runs out the top of the pump to the left carb, braided line from the left carb runs behind the shroud to the right carb.

Sounds like you are going to suggest a T at some point coming off the pump with an individual line to each carb. That what you are thinking?

The thread I linked is one that I wrote,so that is my car/setup. You can find these on ebay,and I bought mine out of England. I found that my "3.5psi" pump was actually able to put out over 6 psi!!So when the floats are closed it is building up more pressure than the 3.5. I set the regulator to 3 psi and it is a much more consistent/better running car.

 The best thing is when you hot start,the diaphram on the regulator is shut so no fuel has drained into the carb throats and there is no hard start/washed rings/fuel smell,not to mention in traffgic it no longer loads up. I love this thing,after tweeking on my carbs to perfection,this was the icing on the cake. These were original equipment on 60's era Aston Martins/Ferrari/Lambo/etc.

Bob- If you're not running a regulator, the fuel pressure could be overpowering the left carb and yet the right carb is acting normally because of the lower (already bled off) fuel pressure reaching it. There could be nothing wrong with the left carb; it's only fault is it's the first one to receive fuel. Al 

I want to jump in here and ask a question.  I was told by vintage because I have the bigger 1915 cc with dual 40 idfs motor that they typically do not put a regulator on the car.  I know they do standard on the 1600s.  i actually had one installed on my last 1600 as well.  Seems like everyone that is talking about fuel pressure regulators have a bigger motor.  Not Maureen what the pressure in mine is but with the bigger carbs, etc was told do not need.  Thoughts?  

I am running a electric "3.5 psi" carbureted "Mr. Gasket" fuel pump. Like I mentioned previously these pumps will put out higher pressure than 3 psi so my regulator always keeps it at a consistent pressure. If you have a electric fuel pump,thos may be a good idea for you. The electric pumps will have residual pressure when turned off and this pressure causes fuel to slowly drip into the engine when turned off,I simply turn off my pump and let the pressure bleed down to 0 and no flooding/extra fuel.   

The size (displacement) of the engine has nothing to do with it.  What has everything to do with it is how much pressure the fuel pump produces under varying conditions (whatever type of pump you have) versus what fuel pressure the pilot valves of your carburetors are expecting to 'see' from the feed line.  They have a range of operating pressure they can tolerate.  Some valves have softer contact points than others -it's essentially a needle valve in a seat and some have a synthetic needle composition (think hard rubber, although it's made of other stuff) so some valves can tolerate higher input pressure than others and still work OK.  Whatever the spec is for your 

Webers is what you want to shoot for, at least as a center of the range.

BTW:  I would expect VS to NOT run a fuel regulator on a bone-stock 1600, since it will never need one with a stock, mechanical fuel pump, but run an after-market electric fuel pump and maybe a regulator on a 1915 or larger, but that's just me.  I have a 2,110 with a CB Performance rotary fuel pump and do not need a regulator.  It never "loads up", either.

mr "G" is right size dosent matter in this respect. If I recall todd you have a std vw type fuelpump, you should be good to go.

 as for the rubber, it's usualy viton. or just brass on brass,or stainless on brass seat.I prefer viton.but I dont have a clue as to what mine has, it dosent matter as long sa they work , and mine have for about 10 years with out any issues. the main thing I see is no fuel filter on a lot of cars. I have 3 filters on mine, 1 at the frame horn exit and 1 before each carb after the fuel pump.I like the plastic clear filters so you can see whats in them if you get a load of crapy in the fuel. and I try to change them ever year or two at thanksgiving.there cheep, and if you are cheep too change them.... so you dont have to pay somebody to fix your car for you.

One thing that is cool is to see how sensitive carb'd cars are in regards to fuel pressure. Over 3 psi fuel pressure,car has sputtery top end/too rich,below 2.8 psi,when doing a "snap throttle test" you can see the pressure drop on the gauge,but at 2.8-2.9 psi it is perfect.

our race car is set with an open line relifeing the fuel back to the fuell cell, the line has a .100" jet in the end of it,5.5 ps  as I I recall on the carb side,each regulator is checked & set before each race after you get to the track. either 4 or 6 regulators,I forget on this new car. regulators can and do change settings,so they need to be checked. a street car is a bit more forgiving. you need a system that candle handle the flow the motor needs then regulate it down, but not restrict it. a good regulator isant cheep, and a junk regulator dosent have to be cheep either.and a cheep regulator will probably restrict the flow, how much?? who knows, it may be too much for one engine but ok for another.it  may be fine for 3/4 throttell but cause it to run lean at WOT.

Okay, apologies for this dumb question but...

I have twin webers (IDFs) on my 2110 and it smells to hell of gas. The webers are three years old and have around 1600miles on them. I was going to just make sure the floats weren't stuck but now it sounds like I could just be i need a pressure controller. I have no idea what type of fuel pump John put in my JPS so I don't know what pressure I'm likely to be running at. 

Also to be fair, I've driven the car less than 1/4mile in three months but have started it a few times. Is that the likely cause?

Should I check my float first and then think of pressure control or just go pressure control first?

Thanks!

You could also have a gasket on the carb float that is failing.  I had that happen to me a couple of months back.

 I took my carbs apart and set all the float levels,etc.,and used a wideband afr meter to set them,everything was in spec,however when shutting off the car I would see fuel drip into the carb throats and you could smell it strongly,and if you shut the car off hot,it took awhile to crank and start due to all the fuel pouring into the cylinders. I did not think this Malpassi regulator would have done so much,but it did more than I expected,especially the idle when in stop & go traffic....much nicer to drive now I don't have to "blip" the throttle as much to clear it out.

"Also to be fair, I've driven the car less than 1/4mile in three months but have started it a few times. Is that the likely cause?"

Most likely.

BTW, my first impression on this thread was that the fuel regulator was nothing more than a band-aid covering in improper or out-of-spec (for the carbs used) fuel pump.  I still think so, but finding the proper pressure fuel pump (and hoping that it stays that way) might be a lot more work than just popping on a pressure regulator and being done with it.  

I still don't think a regulator is necessary for a stock, mechanical, VW-style fuel pump, but it certainly wouldn't hurt for an after-market electric version and might solve several problems at once (and for relatively short money).

OK. What I expected to hear was that I should just run a line to each del off of the fuel pump utilizing a T if in fact there is no float issue, and that has been looked at repeatedly and eliminated each time. Wrong strategy?

The standard see through fuel filter is in place between the pump and the left carb. It's clear, and is changed routinely.

No regulator between pump and carb. 

What about a pump to regulator to split lines to individual carbs? That would make the flow to each carb uniform. 

3.0 psi about right for a 2110, or what?

Thank you gentlemen.

"OK. What I expected to hear was that I should just run a line to each del off of the fuel pump utilizing a T if in fact there is no float issue, and that has been looked at repeatedly and eliminated each time. Wrong strategy?"

Yes, wrong strategy.  You have excessive pressure at the first (driver's side) carb and the excess pressure is overpowering your pilot valve and making that side run rich at low speeds and overflowing the float bowl, while at the same time, slightly reducing the pressure to the downstream carb and THAT one is OK because it is probably seeing fuel pressure at the top of the "good" working range for its' pilot valve.  If you were to intall a simple "T", all you would accomplish is make the pressure to BOTH carbs too high and they will BOTH run shitty.  ALB mentioned all of this.

"The standard see-through fuel filter is in place between the pump and the left carb. It's clear, and is changed routinely."

Totally irrelevant to the issue.  If it were partially clogged and because of the clog reduced the pressure to the first carb, my bet would be that BOTH carbs would run better because of it.

"No regulator between pump and carb." 

Yeah, we know.  Otherwise, you wouldn't have troubles with the left carb.

"What about a pump to regulator to split lines to individual carbs? That would make the flow to each carb uniform. "

True, but partly un-necessary.  Install a regulator between the pump and the first carb, set it at 3-3.5 lbs. and that should cure your left side stumbling.  The right side will do just fine.  If you're all hung up with putting a "T" in there to equalize the pressure to both carbs, go right ahead.  The "T" will do just that (or get closer to what you want) but the right side will probably never care whether the "T" is there or not.  You'll never be racing this car to make it matter.  Will the right side see a lower pressure if you don't run a "T"?  Yes, but it is designed to operate within a range of pressure.  It tolerates low pressure much better than it can tolerate high pressure.

"3.0 psi about right for a 2110, or what?"

Again, the displacement of the engine is irrelevent.  The only relevent issue is how much fuel pressure the pilot valves in YOUR carbs want to see.  For many European carbs (but not all) the working fuel pressure range is 2.5- 4.5 lbs.  For many 

American carbs (but not all) the working range is 3 - 7 lbs pressure.  The typical Dellorto (depending on how high the float is set, the size of the jets and what engine RPM it is set up to operate in) can tolerate up to almost 6 lbs. and still work OK for a while until the pilot valves wear.  For "normal" operation, they seem to be happy between a range of 2.5 - 3.5 lbs.

THE BOTTOM LINE:  Get a decent fuel pressure regulator, install it between your fuel filter and the first carb, set it at 3.0 lbs. pressure (I assume it comes with a calibrated gauge) and road test it.  You can play with the pressure setting to see what your carbs seem to like best (it may change seasonally) and then leave it set there and you'll be done.

"Thank you gentlemen."

OK......Just don't call me Shirley.

Fine, I won't call you Shirley.

I assume Sally and Wanda aren't acceptable either.

Seriously, thanks for the insight and help Gordon. I truly appreciate it. I will report back once I get this done. (And thanks for tolerating my lack of knowledge.)

What lack of knowledge?  

We all had to start somewhere.

Heck!  A long time ago, Lane thought a Speedster was one of these, and look at him, now!! 

Gordon, ALB, marksbug, and Stan: all right on the mark.

Engine size doesn't matter a dang bit. Webers like 3 to 3.5 psi as do Dells. Solexes like 1.5 pounds. A mechanical pump CAN produce a lot of pressure though. I have seen 6 pounds from a new stock pump! Get a fuel pressure gauge(borrow one) and a stack of ten fuel pump gaskets. I had 6 on a sand rail to drop it to 1.5 pounds.

For electric pumps, CB makes a good one, just don't tighten the clamps too much. Autozone has a similar rotary self-regulated pump also. I am not a fan at all of the Facet. 

I installed a fuel pressure regulator with my old engine, along with SS lines.

Ron:

What type of regulator did you use? Appears that you mounted it to the firewall and the SS lines to the carbs are obvious. what kind of line did you run from the pump to the regulator and did you stick with the standard see through filter. Looks great!. Clean and clear.

Bob, I can't remember the name of the regulator.  I bought it 10 years ago at a hot rod shop.

I installed an electric fuel pump below the gas tank, and had the fuel line come up behind the fire wall.  I used rubber fuel line from the end of the stock steel line to the back of the regulator.

For a fuel filter, these have gone up in price a little bit, but I like them a lot:

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/...uel-Filter,1669.html

Thanks, Ron and thanks Gordon!

the filter gordon has is nice but you cant see whats going on in there and the steel lower part can rust and the aluminum top portion can corode and you can still get crap into your carbs.some of the cheep marine ones do that too, raycore has extreamly nice ones. and they are priced accordingly.(high).like I said I like the clear plastic ones I get from my wife at westmarine, but most any good plastic filters do just fine, I like them mounted sideways so you can see whats in them, mounting with the lines on top/bottom can make it hard to see and pass water if you get it in there. as for regulators I like the magna flow,mallory,holly,barry grant.I wont use a cheep chrome pos.I dont even have one on mine as I just have the oe pump and have never had an issue.

   you can also check the top screws in the carb to see if there loose.

 I did a motor for a guy and fired it up a month ago, 2017cc , duell dells, dells just done by ACE. well they both were dribbling fuel right off the bat.about$300 for them to be rebuilt and they were dribbining down into a new motor. a few slight wacks with the handy screw stick and there just fine....for now. I do like regulators with a pressure relief port too.