In looking at a Beck, they have the 1915 90HP. Was curious as to everyone's opinion on gearing 4:12 or 3:88? This would be for a basic weekend getaway romper; checking out art shows, cruise nights, twisty rolling backroads exploring etc... I'm a pretty sane driver and not really into screaming racetrack-esque performance. I may be on some highways at 80MPH, but I don't think I would that often. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!
Jeff
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The 4.12 r&p with the 1915 makes for a car that's a little zippier around town (it does say Speedster on the side, afterall!) and stilll gives acceptable highway speeds. The 3.88 will give you a longer legged highway cruiser but won't quite have the pep at lower speeds that the shorter r&p will. Either will be a fun car- they're not that much different. Hope this helps. Al
http://www.teammfactory.com/ca.../0/0/3600/3600/1/0/2
Yes. Thank you!
I have had both. Started with a 4:12 and then went to a 3:88, everything else stayed the same. The 4:12 was quicker through the gears but when in 4'th gear on a highway it seemed a little higher reving.
With a 4:12 and running at 70 mph, the engine revs were about 3,500 rpms.
With a 3:88 and running at 70 mph, the engine revs are about 3,200 rpms.
The 4:12 will feel more powerful with a 1,776 or 1,915cc engine, but that feeling is from the lower, overall, gearing.
JiI (Jeff in Illinois) posted:In looking at a Beck, they have the 1915 90HP. Was curious as to everyone's opinion on gearing 4:12 or 3:88? This would be for a basic weekend getaway romper; checking out art shows, cruise nights, twisty rolling backroads exploring etc... I'm a pretty sane driver and not really into screaming racetrack-esque performance. I may be on some highways at 80MPH, but I don't think I would that often. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!
Jeff
Its NICE to have some HP when you MIGHT need it or WANT it, despite not using it much of the time as per your driving habits.....might be handy one day to AVOID a bit of a mess AND...MOST IMPORTANTLY....the RESALE VALUE and DESIRABILITY INDEX(LOL) is greatly improved with more horse power. Might say buying less HP is saving money and/or efficient, but, might be PENNY FOOLISH in the long run....as per resale value suffers with a smaller motor.
Psssst....a Berg 5 speed will set you free!
Terry Nuckels posted:Psssst....a Berg 5 speed will set you free!
All in due time, Terry! 
Baby steps...
Berg will drain my bank account too!
JiI (Jeff in Illinois) posted:Berg will drain my bank account too!
Yeah, by the time it's finished a Berg 5 is not cheap ($5,000 give or take), but what guys don't get is it's a modification of the same level as going from a stocker to your 1915, or from the 1915 to a 2180, 2276 or 2332 stroker with another 60 or 70 hp. It makes the car that much more fun!
Stan- are you reading this? you know you want to...
You need to consider the affordability vs. Cost factor. Does it cost 5k? Yes. Can I afford it? Uh, no. I'm not loaded like you guys are!
Jeff
JiI (Jeff in Illinois) posted:You need to consider the affordability vs. Cost factor. Does it cost 5k? Yes. Can I afford it? Uh, no. I'm not loaded like you guys are!
Jeff
JEFF...you dont need to drop 5K to move up in the HP ranks......or NEED a BERG 5
Yeah, I didn't think so.
Well, since we're having fun here, what r&p would be best with an ej25 n/a ?
Jeff
JiI (Jeff in Illinois) posted:Yeah, I didn't think so.
Well, since we're having fun here, what r&p would be best with an ej25 n/a ?
Jeff
Plenty horse power with SUBY....again your driving style dictates R&P..if you are RARELY on the highway going 60 plus then you might enjoy having power at hand at lower speeds. I spend 90% of my driving on local 2 lane roads so I dont mind high revs when I am on the interstate(twice a month). The SMART mechanics on the "SOC" will know exactly what you need...
The Suby is a whole 'nuther beast.
How? Well, to start, you have 30% more horsepower on tap from the get-go, BUT you also have a LOT more torque (the power you feel) that comes on a lot lower in the RPM range than a typical aircooled engine. The power curve is much flatter on a Suby so you can get by with a higher ratio (lower number) ring and pinion set and take advantage of more power at any rpm setting.
If you had the typical Suby 2.5, properly carbureted (non-fuel injection) and "stock" VW gearing in your transaxle (gear 1-4), I would expect that you, and the engine, would be quite happy with a 3:42 rear ratio or something like that. Heck, the Suby expects to be turning something like 2,200 rpm at 70mph so the VW gearing might fit nicely as it would be a tad higher, like 2,500-2,800 rpm or so at 70mph, if you kept the stock .89 fourth gear on a VW transaxle.
On the other side of the coin, let's say that you're running a 2,110 VW type 1 aircooled engine. First, your "sweet spot" in engine rpms is 3,000-ish for optimum cooling, unlike the Suby that doesn't care about cooling rpms since it's water cooled. Second, you have a much lumpier torque curve - more like the shape of Mount Monadnock (look it up...It's lumpy) - that brings the torque on above 3,000 rpm, unlike that Suby that has decent torque around 1,500 rpm and up. Lastly, the lower numerical ratio in the rear end (higher gearing) the more you're making the engine work and the less power you will feel - it's all leverage. If you gear for highway travel then acceleration (in any gear) suffers. If you gear for acceleration then your top end or cruising speed suffers. Original Speedsters were geared for racing and acceleration. They were all done around 100mph, but they could get there quickly - they were quick but not especially fast. You have to decide what you want to do with the car and gear for that. Life is a compromise.......
What Gordon says is true, you can gear a Subaru powered car with the longest VW type 1 r&p made (3.44) and stock 1st through 4th because of the torque difference, and since you don't have the rpm requirements for the cooling fan the car will lope along at highway speeds at much lower engine speeds. It makes the car a different beast entirely.
And the last (hopefully) I'll say about the Berg 5- I realize it's expensive, but if you've never driven VW trans with close 3rd and 4th gears you have no idea how it transforms the car. It's like adding another 20 or 30 hp and you now have a highway gear as welll! Between here and the local VW high performance crowd (several high 11-low 12 second cars) I know 6? 7? 8? guys with Berg 5's and every one of them will tell you it's the best money they've spent on their car!
I'm not saying it's for everybody, but when you consider that a 2 liter + engine will cost anywhere from 6- $10,000 (or more), sweet doesn't begin to describe being able to maximize it's potential with close gears and having a 5th for highway driving.
And it's off to the Great Canadian VW show to scour the swap meet for junk I can bring home, and then off to paint the beach house floor. Have a good day guys!
Yoda out (but back you know I will be!
)
I wonder what happened to that 912 5-speed transaxle in Carl Berry's stash?
I have a 915 hooked up to a suby in my shop but it's for another project. 
ALB: The best thing about swap meets in August in Canada is that you don't need display tables, as the snowdrifts have melted just low enough to put things on them.
Jeff
Gordon Nichols posted:I wonder what happened to that 912 5-speed transaxle in Carl Berry's stash?
Iirc that would have been a good one, Gordon.
JiI (Jeff in Illinois) posted:ALB: The best thing about swap meets in August in Canada is that you don't need display tables, as the snowdrifts have melted just low enough to put things on them.
Jeff
I think a lot of guy were hoping, but we've had a pretty warm summer here in Lotusland. Unfortunately a lot of stuff was displayed on the ground...
JiI (Jeff in Illinois) posted:I have a 915 hooked up to a suby in my shop but it's for another project.
Yeah, that combination works. My old 2.2 EJ with 915 transmission.
JiI (Jeff in Illinois) posted:ALB: The best thing about swap meets in August in Canada is that you don't need display tables, as the snowdrifts have melted just low enough to put things on them.
Jeff
You know there's going to be a number of guys here that believe that right?
It's 87 plus humidity today 
The snow drifts have been gone for days .....
Yeah, and your mosquitos are WAY bigger than ours!
WNGD posted:JiI (Jeff in Illinois) posted:ALB: The best thing about swap meets in August in Canada is that you don't need display tables, as the snowdrifts have melted just low enough to put things on them.
Jeff
You know there's going to be a number of guys here that believe that right?
It's 87 plus humidity today
The snow drifts have been gone for days .....
Oh, a couple weeks at least!
Seriously, guys, when I was 15 our parents took us to Disneyland for Easter break. This was 1972 (I think) and we stayed in the Howard Johnson's right across the street. Every morning we ate breakfast in the hotel coffee shop, and by the 4th day or so my dad had the waitress (who was only a year or 2 older than me) convinced that we lived in an igloo, left the dog sled at the border and rented a car to come down to sunny California (my stepmother was embarassed!). The number of Americans who really believe that the "Great White North" starts at the 49th parallel (like a wall of perpetual winter) and Vancouver has moose and polar bears roaming the streets- really!
It's all a scam. They want you to believe it's nice and sunny up there. In actuality, it is...for about 30 minutes, usually between August 15 and 19th. The rest of the time is blizzards and finding what are the best chains to run on their tires.
Okay, I'm just kidding, it's actually 45 minutes and is in July.
Jeff
Tire size is a factor to consider. I really like this calculator:
http://johnmaherracing.com/cal...ar-ratio-calculator/
I just looked at the teammfactory calculator and it looks better than my link above since you can compare two setups side by side.
Very useful. Accidentally typed in 9 for 5th gear. Went from 70MPH in 4th at 3200 down to 6.9MPH!
Yup, gearing can make the same engine feel like a wimp or a champion - it's all leverage/gear ratios and how much you want to shift. If you do a search on here on "gear ratios" we have discussed this topic a number of times and that could be helpful to you. DO NOT do the same search on "The Samba" - it will lead to many sleepless nights and total confusion. We're your friends - Friends don't let friends get confused.
Michael McKelvey posted:Tire size is a factor to consider. I really like this calculator:
http://johnmaherracing.com/cal...ar-ratio-calculator/
I just looked at the teammfactory calculator and it looks better than my link above since you can compare two setups side by side.
I like the John Maher calculator as well, Michael, because you can look up the rpm at any speed (or vice versa). I use the team factory calculator more often only to compare 2 gear sets. Al
