I have a hot engine and I'm not talking hp

I just noticed in a pic in another thread that you have heaterboxes; if you don't mind, what are your engine specs?

2276cc (94x82)

Aluminum case

9.0:1 compression

FK8 cam

Pauter 1.4 rockers

Older CB 40x35 heads-some porting

Doghouse shroud with stock oil cooler

Mesa external oil cooler & fan

Gene Berg Sump (1.5 quarts)

Mallory Unilite distributor.

The entire exhaust system, including the heater boxes, was made five or six years ago, when I owned the car for the first time.  The heater boxes are hollow, with 1  5/8" tubing, to match the merged header pipe size.

Ron,

Yesterday I was driving around with a friend in 95+ weather. My temps were hitting 240 but the car was running great. Later on, in the early evening, the oil temps dropped down to 210. Ambient temps in the 80s.

If you're using Brad Penn, or something similar, your temps are probably fine. 

How does your oil smell on the dipstick? If it doesn't smell burnt you're fine.

You have a large engine and it's going to run on the warm side.

What are your head temps? If they're in the low 300s it's all good.

Instead of the Mesa cooler, invest in a Setrab Fanpak. Pricey but twice as efficient.

I can't explain the hot fender unless you have the fan sucking air from the cooler or it's running intermittently because of a faulty thermostat or wiring, or there's not enough space between the side wall and cooler to let air pass through.

I really had no problems with heat on my speedster but I also built it to use a OEM engine seal and had no air leaks anywhere around the seal. I removed the seal around the decklid so air could pull in there along with the grille. I live in North Carolina so it gets pretty hot here too. Most of the street car engines I have built the last few years I have set up around 8.2 compression , low compression , low heat. As far as performance goes low compression engines in a light car are still impressive. Some of the worst air leaks were from the sheet metal not fitting tight around the cylinders and block , less air ,less cooling. On your engine I am sure you are not having these problems , but just something to check. Here is a pic of the first engine,

I know chrome isn't popular, but hey I grew up in the 50's. Mike McCarthy

I'm presently using Swepco.  My head temps are fine.  I've checked my CHT gauge with my heat gun and the numbers are close.

My builder talked me into going with an aluminum case.  I wish I'd stuck to my guns and demanded a mag case.  From what I've heard, aluminum cases run 15 degrees hotter than mag cases.

I think the fender is very hot because the mesa oil cooler/fan draws air from under the engine and blows it into the wheel well.

Terry, if I do stay with an air cooled engine I will definitely go with a Setrab oil cooler.  I really want to mount the cooler in the front.  There is so little room to mount a cooler in the rear and it makes so much sense to me to mount the cooler in the front.

Mike, I made sure all my tin was in place and there were no leaks.

I really did not think you did, but it never hurts to ask.On those same engines I was talking about I used aluminum cases also, the decks were ordered taller than stock which created a gap between the cylinder tins and the block, I extended the cylinder tins to fill the gaps. That is why I mentioned it.Mike

Hot oil doesn't crack cylinder heads.. Oil temperature isn't engine temperature. Cylinder head temperature should be the #1 concern.

If the jetting is correct and the compression is as I stated , around 8.2 and all the enine tin is in place properly with a dog house , do you think cracked heads should be a concern. I know you spent more time than anyone else has researching VW cooling systems so I respect your input.  What I have seen is a combination of things not done properly that create the conditions leading to it overheating ,ignition  timing, too lean jetting, missing or improperly installed sheet metal, leaks into the engine compartment from exhaust heat, ect...  Mike

Any engine that has high oil temps can have even higher percentages of head temperatures.. I have seen engines drop seats and crack heads that NEVER over heated the oil. Oil temperature and head temperature (engine temperature) are only loosely related.

You can kill heads with all the sheet metal in place, it happens every day. I concur that most over heating situations are attributed to a multitude of deficiencies that couple to equal issues. Some of these go as deep as the camshaft, displacement and etc and are not limited to only tuning challenges. Lots of times misconfigured engines simply cannot have their tuning optimized, which leads to the overheating in the first place.

When my oil temperature hit 230 degrees my CHT barely hit 325 Micro 1000 CHT gauge from Aircraft Spruce.

Based on that I'd guess that your car had less than optimum gearing.. This created too many engine revs for the speed being driven, which increased friction and put more load on the oil.. The reason the heads were so cool was because the low gearing removed load from the engine and increased fan speed; both of which decrease CHT.

What did the car cruise at RPM wise @ 70 MPH?

Both my speedo and tach are off, but using my GPS and my laptop hooked up to my EFI computer the RPM at 70 MPH was approximately 3600 RPM.

There is the answer to your issue.. The engine was spinning it's self into a high friction/ oil shear condition and overworking the oil.

Optimized gearing is so, so important. You can tune all day long but with high RPM the friction will always produce high oil temps, especially in high ambient conditions. That gearing ABSOLUTELY will not be compatible with the Suby power plant.

.... or an ACVW. I'm STILL unconvinced there's anything wrong, Ron.

Jake, thanks for that insight.

I'm not sure what my plans are, engine wise, but I am having the engine torn down for inspection and hopefully we'll find out why it was running so hot.   Gearing was definitely part of the problem, but I think there is more to it than that.

Just trying to learn things here. So, Jake. My liquid cooled old Volvos from the mid '80's could do 3700 rpm all day and go 300,000 miles without complaint. Regular oil changes, tune ups etc. and no problems. What's up with the newer Soobs that they

cannot remain viable with about that cruising rpm, oil wise ? I do most of my cruising at about 3,300 rpm on the highways. I know a little bit about the torque curve of the EJ22 and I know my situation could benefit from taller gearing but why is it absolutely incompatible ? Anything to do with your particular tuning profile etc ?

Just trying to learn things here. So, Jake. My liquid cooled old Volvos from the mid '80's could do 3700 rpm all day and go 300,000 miles without complaint.

This isn't a volvo. The quicker that one learns that previous experiences can be negative, the faster the learning on the new platform begins.

Now we have confused the current issues that Ron has had with his ACVW engine with the Subaru and the two are completely different.

When I stated that the gearing he has now isn't optimum for the Subaru conversion engine, that was being stated from a completely different point of view than the ACVW engine.

The ACVW engine that spins high RPM all the time is overworking the oil. This is indicative by Ron's lower than average CHT and scorching oil temperature. The extra RPM provided more fan speed which cooled the heads better, and the heads didn't generate as much heat because the load that they saw was greatly reduced by the shorter gearing. It was a double positive for the CHT and a double negative for the oil.

Regular oil changes, tune ups etc. and no problems. What's up with the newer Soobs that they

cannot remain viable with about that cruising rpm, oil wise ?

I didn't say that they couldn't. What I should have stated is that spinning al that extra RPM just guzzles gas, makes noise and creates much more friction than necessary. The Subaru vehicles that these engine are derived from have mega tall gearing and they love to use their torque more than HP. Unlike an ACVW engine they don't need short gearing to reduce engine load and increase fan speed.

 I do most of my cruising at about 3,300 rpm on the highways.

I gear our aircooled drivetrain arrangements for to be optimized @ 3,000 RPM in most cases and I alter the gearbox for the driver's target speeds during our design stage. That of course is with an engine that has 26% more cooling capability that Ron's and a superior internal configuration, topped by a super efficient cooling arrangement.

I know a little bit about the torque curve of the EJ22 and I know my situation could benefit from taller gearing but why is it absolutely incompatible ?

The EJ22 isn't an engine that we are working with, although I have driven them in stock form.  They are the least powerful engine of the EJ series and would like a little shorter gearing than the EJ20 and EJ 25 series engines that we are developing into the JR performance series.

In general the modern 4 valve, liquid cooled engine has no need to run at elevated RPM like the aircooled engines that it is replacing. Doing so simply wastes gas, increase friction, makes noise and isn't optimum. I believe that when starting from a blank sheet of paper the designer of any "better arrangement" should work to optimize the entire system and reduce compromise.

But thats why what we are doing isn't cheap, quick or easy; but it does optimize the vehicle and spends the money the absolute most efficient way. I don't really see a reason in doing something, unless it is done all the way. Thats just me.

Thanks for that fine dissertation, Jake. It all makes excellent sense. I recognize that the EJ22 is the least powerful of the group, but for the kind of driving we enjoy, it is quite adequate at around 130 ft.lbs of torque. You may be aware that my conversion should really be considered a viable option for the do it yourselfer, low bucks homebuilder. Cheap, reliable, one single Weber 32/36 carb to set and forget and pretty easy/reliable electronic ignition. Further, my older IM has only 29" between the existing frame rails in the engine compartment. The EJ22 is about 28 1/2" wide. Nothing else Soob related would squeeze in there. I applaud your impressive and professional approach and your willingness to give a little education from time to time.

David, 

Sounds like you are happy. Thats all that matters. There is no right or wrong way to hotrod something, as long as it meets your expectations. I have very discerning purchasers to exceed the expectations of, so my approach is vastly different.

Jake, how did you put in those dotted boxes?

Utilized the quote feature... 

There's a double quote button in the center of the post window toolbar for "block quote" that does this.

Originally Posted by justinh:

Well, I'll be. That is useful. Thanks Justin!

Yes....thanks Justin.

Ordered stage 2 heads from Steve Tims today.

No more pooping out at 5500 rpm. 

A few weeks ago I took the oil cooler out of the driver's side rear wheel well.  Besides the wheel well location (which I don't like) there isn't a good rear location to to mount an oil cooler in an IRS car.  My IRS strut bars also complicate things.  So, I've decided to buy a new Setrab (16" long and 3" high) oil cooler and put it in another location. 

By the oil cooler's dimensions can you guess where?

Stay tuned.