I have my pan. So, now what do I do?

I took delivery of a really nice '74 standard Beetle pan today. All of the rolling gear is there, and I have the title. Nice gearbox, too. It seemed like a good base car for a build and it was local, so I went ahead and bought it.

Can I start the process of shortening and strengthening the pan now, or do I need to buy a body first to make sure everything is going to line up. If I need to buy a body, what are my best options? How are the bodies that Rustytubs sells?

Also, does anyone know of a shop in East Texas that can shorten a pan? I found an post from 2004 about a shop that sold shortened pans, but no names were mentioned. Is there anyone out there that still does this kind of work?

TIA

I am origionally from Beaumont and do not know of any in that area. I can check out those around Houston if you like.
geogrim1ATverizon.net.

Rather than cut up the pan now, I'd wait until you find a car body.
Once you have that, you can contact the manufacturer and find out how and what they want you to do when you cut down the pan.. If you have the appropriae instructions, any welding/fabrication shop can handle that chore.

If you have a friend that knows how to weld, he can do the modification. It helps if you have a plasma cutter but not absolutely necessary as it can be done with a cutting torch. It's just cleaner if you have a plasma cutter.

Shortening the pan is not difficult. Print off the pages from the CMC build manual in the Library. I suspect not all bodies are shortened the 10.5" like the FF/CMC though - so I'd wait till you decide on a body. You may end up with a different kit car or dune buggy body - some use full length and some shorten as much as 14.5". The Rusty Tub bodies will require a subframe. Suspect it would be cheaper to find an unfinished kit off ebay, SAMBA or craigslist. You could always spend you time lowering the chassis and freshing it up plus rebuilding the engine/trans.

Thanks, guys. I called rustytubbs today and spoke with a guy there for a while about the bodies/kits they sell. He also turned me on to the 944 rear suspension setups. In addition to this, I've been reviewing the CMC build manuals that are posted here. So far, it sounds like I'll be safe shortening the pan per the manuals without buying the body first.

You MIGHT want to subtract an inch from the suggested cut amount. Make the finished pan an inch longer than the manuals call for. If you look closely at most of the pan based Speedsters, the front wheels are all sitting too far back in the wheel wells. Makes for a totally weird side profile.

Seriously, check it out, ask around.

Which is a prime reason why you should wait until you have the car's body before you go chopping up the pan...

Be careful of Rustytubs. A lot of members at www.spyderclublcom have had problems. Often times, they don't deliver as promised

Unless you can pick up the kit in person from Rusty Tubs directly, don't even think of dealing with them at all.

Don't don't go over your head getting into your first speedster project, you'll have enough to do with building it.
Support is very good here.
I have nothing to do with this source other than I have an email addrees of a guy in NYC area that has a complete unassembled CMC. ~Alan

"Seriously, check it out, ask around."

Can I ask here? I have no idea how to successfully search for something like this on this site. What other forums should I be on? I've registered at speedstershop.com and can't seem to get my account activated there. I've searched every speedster thread on Pelican and found next to nothing. Are there other forums out there that document this wheelbase issue, or any other issues with the kits that I need to be aware of?

I've been re-reading and saving every thread about DIY builds I've seen since joining here and I've never seen anyone mention this issue with the wheelbase measurements in the CMC manuals. Is there a way to pull more than the last 50 posts from a particular user here? There are a few hardcore DIY guys here and I'm trying to plow through the info that has been posted, but I find this site particularly difficult to search effectively.

I guess I'm going to start building the suspension & brakes out and worry about chopping the pan after I have the body/subframe in hand. I did talk with a 944 parts guy today about a rear disk brake setup, tho, so I think I at least have that sorted out for now.

TIA

Shuie, the 924 and early 944 have the proper sized rear suspension arms . The 944 S turbo's (1987 - up)have a wider rear wheel width. The turbo arms could lead you into some clearance issue regarding wheel to fender gaps. I am using a set on my volksrod . They are approximatly 4" wider overall.
Joe

Thanks, Joe. I appreciate the help. I'm going to go with the early non-turbo 944 rear disk brakes on the assumption that they will mount to the stock Type I trailing arms I have. I know the track is probably still pushed out a little with the brakes alone, but I'm hoping the rear wheels will still fit under normal flares without rubbing.

You can pretty much check through the members cars and see what I mean about the front wheel problem, quite a few have it. There was a thread a long while ago where one of the Dudes was asking about shims to extend the mounting surface of the beam just a bit to solve it.

What you'll find is something similar to what's shown in the picture links below. The front wheel sits too far back in the well. For a lark, you might check the manufacture's web sites and see if they ever feature a full on side view of the product. The cars look great in the 3/4 shots, but fall down from the side.

http://www.oldspeed.net/images_voitures/speedster.jpg

http://www.eppingmotorcompany.com/stock/page1/1958%20Porsche%20356%20Speedster%20Replica/1958%20Porsche%20Speedster%20Replica%206.JPG

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/uploads/new/636746.jpg

Just a few examples, but you get the idea. Just make sure that you adjust the cut to fit the body that you use. The wheel should sit just a smidge forward in the well, not a couple of inches to the rear.

Let's be careful out there.

Oye. FP, thanks for the heads-up.

If you don't shorten according to the CMC book then the bolts that go in their substantial subframe won't line up with the chassis. The major ones are the 2 close together up front either outside area of pan and one that goes into the area near the lower shock perch on either side in the back. I recall ages ago someone here had the problem and they shimmed the front beam out using longer bolts and shims.

I don't think this is an issue any longer --- look at the 2 CMC build manuals in the Library. The early one says to shorten 11.81" and the later one is 10" - that near 2 inches longer for the later specs. Not sure if early one was a mis-print or if indeed the sub frames were different.

I read the 11.81" as removing a 10" section from the pan and then overlapping the seam where the pan is welded back together by 1.81".

Look at the sparse 1980 CMC build manual - it shows cutting 11.81 and then butting the pieces together - so guess it still gives same measurement unless someone combined the two and cut the 11.81 and still tried to overlap - the results would be the same.

Here was old 2004 thread that discussed it. It provides actual wheel base measurements. I searched and found it - it's entitled "wheelbase dilemma" if link doessn't work for you.

https://www.speedsterowners.com/forum/readmsg.asp?t=4034

If above link don't work, try:
http://speedsterowners.com/forum/readmsg.asp?t=4034

Caution:
If you cut the chassis to line up the wheels on center in the wheel wells, the front chassis arch (and bolt holes) will be forward of the body arch and the 2 x 4 box frame below the kick panels will extend outside of the chassis edge and you'll have some serious build issues. ~Alan

This brochure, which I assume shows a "real" Speedster, seems to have the front wheels toward the rear of the opening.

The each of the torsion bars in the front are a stack of flat bars gripped in the center of the beam. You can't reindex them.

You can add either of a couple kinds of adjusters to the beam which could still involve cutting and welding and or use dropped spindles.

Adjusters only will affect ride quality. Dropped spindles maintain the original ride quality.

I recently installed dropped spindles and had to add 10 mm spacers behind the wheels to keep them from hitting the ball joints. Whether or not you would have to do this depends on you wheel offset.

Okay, I'm pulling the suspension pieces for soda blasting & powder coating this weekend. The rear trailing arms are ready for the blaster, but I have a question about the front beam assembly.

In the CMC manuals, if Im reading them right, they reindex the torsion bars and lower the front of the car by cutting the beam, rotating a center section of it, and then welding it back together. Do I really have to do it that way? Do they do it like that in the manual because they don't cover disassembling the front suspension? Are the front VW torsion springs splined on both ends like the ones in the back of the car?

I'll cut the beam if I have to, but it seems like I should be able reindex the t-bars and lower the car accordingly when I reassemble the suspension. I just don't want to cut and weld this thing after it's been cleaned and powder coated.

Thanks in advance.

Or you could go the expensive route and buy an adjustable beam. I'm just sayin'...

Or reduce the number of torsion springs in the pack. Methods are shown online.

Hi Shuie; I'm in NOLA working and am glad there's more Speedster nuts around here. In terms of purchasing a body I would suggest that if you have the funds you buy the whole kit from VS which is close to $9K. It will be more cost effective than buying everything or fabricating piecemeal.

Thanks, Ricardo. I've actually bought a 90% complete CMC since posting this thread. I still have my pan and some plans, but I'm going to finish the CMC first.