I may have to sell my beloved Spyder and go to a Speedster.

My doc recently warned me against too much sun, and I am faced with reluctantly having to plan to sell the Spyder. Haven't decided yet if and when. The Spyder has no top (the one provided flaps around like a chicken with it's head chopped off), and I was thinking about a Speedster. At least the Speedster has a top that can be pulled into place to block out the sun.

My only concern is that of driving the Speedster at moderate freeway speeds with the top up. I rode shotgun only once in Speedster....with the top down, so it was no real test of how the car drove top-up. I need to know from you Speedster owners if the car's top presents any real problems when the top is up. Does the top flap around so much that it is use is limited to driving at lower speeds, or can the car be driven at freeway speeds with no problems?

I don't expect that the top would be particularly effective at keeping the rain out, even if the side curtains were in place; I am mainly interested in any gripes or complaints that you owners have when driving with the top up in good weather. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Barry

Barry, I've put roughly 4,500 miles on my Beck since last July. Of that, probably only 500 miles or less with the top up. However, I would say that my top up offers a rather pleasant experience, with no flapping that I can recall. Without the added insulation barrier, engine sounds becomes a little more noticeable.

You might want to consider a zip out read window to improve air flow and reduce buffeting.

Definitely get the zip-out option. The Beck top is taught, and seals well, particularly if you fabricate side windows like I did.

Oh yeah, my dermatologist has been telling me the same thing. My personal and family history includes a few positive biopsies, so I know she's right. Haven't made up my mind yet, but my car might be available at some point.

What's a zip-out window? Maybe a dumb question, but I always thought the windows were installed via some sort of clamp-on device. And...what are the advantages to zip-out windows over the non-zipout version, other than maybe ease of installation?

No, no......it's the REAR window that zips out. Usually it is stitched to the top just at the bottom seam and has a zipper around the sides and top of the window so it unzips and just flaps down into the well and stays there.

The difference?? Without a zip-out rear window and with the side curtains out, the top has a habit of flapping up and down quite a bit. Zip out the back window and the top is really well behaved with no flapping.

PS: Go for the IM-style rear window. It's bigger than that in a VS and MUCHO bigger than a CMC and it unzips across the top of the window.

With a zip-out rear window, the top acts like a "bikini top" for a Jeep. Wind passes through the sides and out the back, but your head, etc., is covered.

I frequently drive Steve's cabriolet with the top up, rear window unzipped, side windows down. NICE!

Also, for those of us with a bit of sun sensitivity who still want to play outside - look into Coolibar clothing. Great stuff.

angela

Why not get a top for the Spyder?

A Spyder for sale?????? Be still dear wallet..... Calm, calm, calm..... Where is my Prozac???

Many of us who own/have owned replicas sell them for lots of different reasons. IMHO, sun exposure is not a valid reason to sell a convertible. With today's sun blocks, and spf 50 clothing available from lots of manufacturers, adequate protection is available, and it's not inconvenient. This type of protectin wasn't invented when I was a sunburned kid at the beach. I now put on sub block every morning, no matter what the weather is.

This is from a guy who knows skin cancer, having had everything from pre-cancer, basil, squamous, and the dreaded melanoma, all remnants of trying, unsuccessfully, to be that tan CA teenager. I now wear a seat belt, drive safely (well, kinda), eat a healty diet, don't smoke, and don't drink. If sun exposure is about my greatest risk factor, I'm in good health statistically. Drive 'em and enjoy 'em.

Gordon, why did you recommend the larger window vs. a smaller one? Visibility, or because it allows a better air-flow, less flapping, etc.?

As for my not getting a top for the Spyder: It has a Griffin radiator up front that cools the water for the Subaru engine in the rear. As a result, I don't think a top would fit in the front; even if it did, storage is already tight in the car (unlike Speedster storage space). The major reason, however, is that a top stored up front would restrict air flow to the radiator.

This means that if I left for a trip, I would either have to leave home with the top off or on. Once it was on, I couldn't remove it because there is really nowhere to store it. The Speedster doesn't have that problem.

I hate to think about selling the car. It has been thoroughly sorted out and is now over at CB Performance. Pat Downs is installing an upgraded EMS computer.

Barry, you need my IM Roadster. Nice top that you can zip out rear window and enjoy sun protection with a great air flow through the cabin. Also real roll up windows, and quiet, warm driving with the top up and the heat on!!!

Jim, it's not only skin CA, but it tends to get hot when I think of having to drive for several days every day (thinking of taking the trip to Carlisle or to the Porsche Parade. Occasional respite from the sun would be welcome. And...if by any chance it rains and I don't have a top on, about all I can do is stop under an overpass (provided one is near), or snap on the tonneau and cover the cockpit with a tarp.

Hi Barry,

I fully understand the need for more convenience. I am likely even further down the "old, broken down, almost used up" road than you. I had a VS Speedster, and am now having a coupe built. All the mod con's, with roll up windows, heat/air con, etc. There will also be a modern sound system that I will have to learn about also. It will tick all the boxes for an old guy who wants to be dry, comfortable, warm/cool as the weather dictates, travel in style, and go like stink!

But, Officer, was I really going that fast? There must be some mistake.

my Tiger can be a hardtop. softop or convertible. I generally just leave the hardtop on as it gets hot and windy with the top off. Im prone to sunburn and its just easier to keep top on.

Barry, as to your storage problem - top, luggage, whatnot, the solution is to forgo having a passenger so that the R/H footwell under your tonneau is your locker. As for the sun - some of the Tilley hats come with neckstrap.

But..............what you're looking for is my IM roadster in trade for your uncomfortable spyder, I'm thinking. Got all that rolldown window/unzip rear window breeze.

Me? I ignore 30 yr old doctors who lecture about smoking and sun and all that. They read it in books and have no idea that it takes some rough living and bourbon whiskey with tobacco to get up into their seventies.
The fools talk so much about healthy living that they'll probably die of it.

Two things... a top on a Spyder makes egress almost impossible
..and Water Babies SPF 50 is the bomb I use it in the Dominican Republic and have yet to burn in the last 8 trips there

Giday, Barry. I'm still trying to learn more about effective cooling systems for liquid cooled engines in our cars. When you have a chance, could you take a moment and describe your cooling system? Is the reservoir on the outgo from the engine or return from the rad and does your system have any ancilliary burp or bleed lines from the highest spot on the rad assy back to the reservoir ? Where is the rad and what type is it please ? Thanks.

Barry:

The larger rear window is strictly for visibility - almost no blind spots with the bigger window, versus really big blind spots with a CMC faux window. Either one will allow enough air egress to stop the top from flapping.

gn

Ken: Thanks for the offer. I'll save your post and will think it over.
Or...how about sending me some pictures of your car, and I will do the same.

Gordon: Thanks for the explanation. Makes good sense.

David: The water is stored in the radiator, just in front of the gas tank. The air enters the front of the car via the grill which IIRC was originally intended for oil cooling. In the air-cooled versions of the Spyder replicas, it has no function, other than to look cool.

The water is cooled by the radiator, and the heat from the radiator is blown out the bottom of the car via an electric fan. The fan operates only when required to keep the water temperature within the "normal" range. At freeway speeds, the fan usually turns itself off.

The cooled water then runs back to the engine via a large flexible tube, through the engine, then back to the radiator. The conduit tubes carry the water through the passenger compartment in such a way that the tubes cannot be seen unless one looks under the dash. They run along the passenger side of the car beneath the aluminum (aluminium) plate that covers the bottom of the car. The chassis is all steel tubing.

The entire setup works very well---even in hot weather. If you would like pics, I would be happy to send them to your personal email address.

Barry, unless your Suby is quiet a Spyder top is difficult to live with.

I keep my top in the front trunk so it is there when I need it. But it REQUIRES earplugs! It is there for rain and cold only. You can get in and out top up, but need to be fairly limber. Easiest way is to undo the windshield latches and flip the top back to get in and out.

Sorry you are thinking of selling yours, it is a great example!

Hey Doc! Bummer, I hope it all works out that you can keep that awesome Spyder of yours!

Me too, Jim. I may want to cadge a ride with one of you guys before I make any final decision. I missed you and Will at the Porsche Rennsport Reunion last year, but I looked for you. The place was jumpin', and I tried to find you at the corkscrew, but with no success.
Do either of you plan to drive up in August? If so, I'll be happy to trade rides. IIRC, Morro Bay is no longer an event that we can attend. Or...maybe there are other events somewhere on the coast that I don't know about.

Now....if I were in L.A., there would be no problem.

Barry, I'm not even sure I could get into a Spyder but I do like your car.

Isn't it about time for the Oakland Roadster show? That'd be a good place to meet. Or maybe you all can just plan an SOC west wingding at Finnocio's in San Francisco, eh? :)

I wish i could afford it .. But Im looking for one that i can convert into a 550 gullwing fastback coupe.. Dont want to butcher up a nice car thats just perfect as it is

Finnocio's? in San Francisco no less; who would have thought?

Sorry for your news. Wanna consider a trade plus cash?

Maybe. I'm saving this thread for the time that I have definitely made up my mind. I don't like people who dither, and I don't want to join that group, but at this time, I haven't come to any definite decision.

Barry, buy a freaking HAT! and keep the Spyder! nough said!

LOL...Will do, David. I get the car back on June 4 from CB Performance. Pat Downs (a stand-up guy, BTW) is the owner of CB. He wouldn't let me have the car back until his computer guys got the CB EMS system absolutely perfect. CB manufactures rebuilt air-cooled engines and markets associated parts. I can't praise the company enough. If I were to have a Speedster built, I would seriously consider this company for its great engine-building. Besides, Pat Downs is one of the most honest and easy-to-work-with persons I have run into.

Barry, I sold my Spyder after 60,000km's. I always loved the car, drove it everyday it was not raining. But, time and gravity set in on me, not on the car. Over the last few years I noticed it was becoming very difficult to get out of the car, in spite of several hours a week spent in the gym....also, my significant other, got tired of looking nose level at lug nuts on trucks 18" away....so, I went back to a Speedster, my 3rd one of those. I can actually get in and out of it with much less hassle, and the big boss is much happier with it too. I need to get it back on the road, it is not a Spyder, does not handle as well as a Spyder. To that point, if you decide to get a Speedster, I highly recommend getting the IRS version. It handles far better than the swing axle IMO/IME and is far easier to service some fair amount of the car....my current Speedster is swing axle, mistake on my part on more than one level, and I knew better too....if you move to the Speedster you will miss the Spyder, not to offend anyone but the Speedsters are really great, but they are not a Spyder. Some of that is good, some, not so much....

x2 on Pat Downs, Barry. I love my little 1915 he built. Here's a picture of him and me at last year's VW Drag Night in South Carolina.

Jim, I thought that today's Speedster replicas were all built with IRS. So far, no problem with getting in or out of the car for either my wife or me, but---hey---I take it one day at a time. The biggest "problem" is trying to keep my distance from looky-loos.

Lane, I'll send this thread on to Pat. I am certain that he will be pleased. He's a super guy.

Barry

Speedsters are built both as swing-axle and IRS. My Beck is swing-axle. i have a camber compensator on it and have no issues with the handling. I'm on my 3rd year of owning the car and still very happy with my decision to go with Beck.

Skin cancer is a concern for me,doctors cut a chunk out of my arm once already..I bought a bunch of long sleeve pure white T-shirts for this purpose, wear a cap, and slather on 50 spf about the face, neck ears and hands. Also if your shadow is longer than you are tall (morning and evenings), its a lot less to worry about. The mental health, and happiness is important to quality life too.

Steven -

Check this site:

http://www.coolibar.com/?s_kwcid=TC|8789|coolibar||S|e|12021897974

I've got quite a bit of their clothing. It works REALLY well. It worked so well that I wound up with a vitamin D deficiency...

I use the long sleeve swimshirts all the time. Nothing on the site is cheap but I can absolutely vouch for the quality, fit, color-fastness and ability to mitigate sun impact.

angela

Thanks for the tip, Angela. I'll check out the products.

I brought the car back from CB Performance in Farmersville, CA, where Pat Downs had brought up his programmer from San Diego. Pat said the guy was there for three days, even spending an entire 8 hours straight working on the EMS settings. Pat said the car ran "just fine." What an understatement.

The car now "jumps" if I tap the accelerator pedal, and none of the former annoyances (such as the intermittent hesitations) are present.
The gas mileage went from 29 to 36 MPG during hard freeway driving at about 75mph. I would guess that the mileage would be even higher if it weren't so much fun blasting around slow-pokes. I have to learn to be a good boy and slow down so as to keep the CHP off my back.

Pat had installed smaller fuel injectors, readjusted the timing, and did a couple of other tweaks. Those guys are wizards IMO, and even though they are located almost 300 miles from home, it was worth the trip and time to get the CB EMS installed. I paid only for the EMS, plus the fee for a new fuel pump, since the EMS was a prototype for those who have Suby engines. Well worth the money and time to be able to realize the incredible improvements.

When I left Farmersville the weather was around 75-80. Wore a long-sleeved shirt when I left. Then.....ran into a freak rainstorm about 150 miles north on the way home. The car got drenched for a while, but then dried out after the sun came out again about 75 miles from home. I have ridden motorcycles in the rain, and driving in the wet stuff took me back to the good old days of riding the BMW on long-distance trips. The forecast had been for intermittent "showers." In California, this usually means sprinkles, but I had no idea that the sky would turn black.

Driving the Spyder in rain with no top is interesting. It's better if a passenger is there to wipe off the water that dribbles over the top of and sides of the windshield. The water wasn't really that bad, but it's the wind that makes driving "fun." The car is so light that high cross-winds can perk up the driver's attention...the same as on a bike.