I need your opinion on these spiralmax

www.spiralmax.com/

This looks to good to be true.....what do you guys think?

If it looks too good to be true, then it probably is.
Ron

Just snake-oil BS for the uninformed; variations on this idea have been around since the 1940's (and possibly before).

This should be an easy product to test on a dyno.

As George said its concept has been around. There was an air cleaner called the "Tornado" sold for years.

That said, I knew a guy that developed something similar to the spiralmax. Like this product he used little arms or maybe it would be wings that were angled a percise way and were meant to aid the flow. I am not an engineer.

He built two serpentine multi-looped runs of clear plexiglass pipe, one with his devises added at each elbow and the other without any.

He added glitter to the water. He had a pump with a volt meter as well as a flow gauge.

First he would start the pump of the non-devise maze and you would see the glitter full of turbulance; interestingly, when it would approach each 90 elbow, the water flow would enter the elbow in say a counter-clockwise rotation and exit doing the opposite. Strange. Welcome to the Chaos Theory 101.

With his devises at the inlet of each elbow and its outlet the water would corkscrew smoothly, there was no reverse spinning of the water/glitter, it was one long and slow clockwise rotation.

Immediately you noticed the water with the devises was flowing much faster. Checking the voltage meter vs the flow gauge with his simple molded (read cheap) applicances added the pump would flow 25% more volume using the same amount of energy, or you could reduce the energy used by 25% and flow the same amount of water.

It was night and day. Wow.

The application he was thinking of was for pipe lines, plumbing, even air conditioning duckwork. I know he was also testing it for automotive applications as well.

I was wanting to give the guy some seed money, aka venture capital. He was a friend of my brother-in-law's.

Ah, but the Navy heard about his research. Last I heard they were talking to the guy about using his devices on their nuke subs. The only noise those things make is the water flowing through the cooling lines. If his devises could make that flow more efficient... well, that would be the ultimate silent sub. That was the last I heard.

And he got his inspiration for something found in nature... which in retrospect seemed so damn obvious. He said it was the perfect shape.

I wonder if it is him behind this product?

Well, anything that increases turbulence in or restricts flow through an intake port in some other way will probably reduce the performance of a four-cycle engine.

Volumetric efficiency is essential to making power and relies on port flow and velocity, so if you add something that "chokes" the intake flow power should be lost.

Where maximum power is not an issue, increasing turbulence may improve fuel distribution in the air fuel mixture for a better burn.

Products like this consist of a piece of thin metalm which is made to cause a "vortex" effect. The metal probablt costs about 20 cents in bulk. If GM or any other company could increase horsepower and fuel efficiency for 20 cents, we would see these on every production car made.
-=theron

George, I see your point, and I am certainly not saying spiralmax works as they claim. If it did I feel sure GM or Ford or someone would buy the patent and we would be importing less oil. If it worked.

I misstated slightly what I and later the Department of the Navy observed with his two simple demonstration props.

Without his devises there was a lot of turbulance entering and exiting each elbow. Turbulance takes energy to overcome.

With his devises installed at the inlet and outlet ends of the elbows the water made a gentle spiral entering and exiting the elbow. Less turbulance and thus less water friction on the sides of the elbow. On the straight runs the water flowed without spiraling.

With both displays side by side there was no comparison at all, which was confirmed with the simple instruments used to measure the electricty used and the volume flowed.

Gas or liquids, doesn't matter. Think of the carb opening as an elbow. More air can be introduced into the induction side of combustion as long as when it is exiting the head pipe another devise is also placed, then at the front of the muffler and at the end. This was BJ's working theory.

I never heard but I had a feeling the Department of the Navy made him an offer he couldn't refuse and he is sitting on some beach with a covey of babes living the good life.

Actually Theron, BJ's pieces were molded plastic, though he also had some cast. But you are correct, production in volume would be very cheap.

But no, it isn't just about creating a vortex per se, just as the shape of today's high performance aircraft have little to do with yesteryear's shapes even if they both share in common lift in their design.

What BJ told me was his computer analysis confirmed a shape found in nature as being able to move through gas or liquids with the least friction, its shape also could direct gas or liquids without robbing power, in fact by organizing the flow it was over-coming the Chaos Theory. Also he found the perfect number of "fins" -- not too many or too few, just enough. What is shown on spiralmax has too many per fitting.

Hey, if the frigging Department of the Navy took an interest that should say something. Man, would I liked to have bought into a piece of that...

I would love to see someone test this thing on a dyno and prove them right or prove them as frauds.......Im betting on the fraud


Sidebar question....does a dyno give the same results on the same engine with the same conditions or is there some exceptable amount of error and does anyone know what the percentage is that is common

ok I will bite... Jake if your willing to test it Im willing to buy it and then return it if it doesn't work??

Steven:

The dyno is just like any other measuring device...it has a built-in amount of error that varies with time and technique. The technical term is repeatabilty and reproduceability(R&R).

Repeatability has to do with things that change over time, such that when you measure the same item again and again over time, you get a bell-shaped curve of answers instead of the same result each time. (Instrument drift, ambient temperature or humidity changes that affect the reading, etc.)

Reproduceability has to do with the technique differences between operators that impact the readings, such how one does the setup or actually interprets the results.

In addition, standards used for calibration have errors, even metal things like gauge blocks, springs, weights, etc. Usually, this is negligible if proper standards are used.

Sometime, just for fun, ask your doctor what the standard error is when he conducts a test, such cholesterol. He probably won't know, and if he did, he would be reluctant to answer for fear of being sued. People seem to take measurements as absolute, but they are not.

As for the amount of error on a dyno, I have no idea.

I did some checking thinking perhaps my Orange County friend "BJ" was behind Spirlmax, he's not, though one of the principles at Spiralmax is also named Bob.

I looked closer at the photos of their product, it ain't nearly as refined as BJ's design, not close. I personally would NOT buy this product without independent testing. It is black and white TV compared to HDTV.

I wasn't asked to sign a non-disclosure agreement by BJ but will honor the spirit nonetheless. What I saw demonstrated wasn't snake oil or smoke and mirrors, though admittedly I am not an engineer. Frankly my reaction was as though witnessing Ben Franklin flying a kite with a key attached in a thunder storm. I figured this was a horse named Can-Do. Take my money, PLEASE!

I probably shouldn't mention this, I will keep my eyes peeled for black helicopters landing in the pasture out front, but one concept discussed by the DoD was... well, I should first warn you if I tell you King George would have to terminate you with prejustice: Brown, George Brown.

BJ earned a law degree at Berkely. Got bored with law (OY!)and went back to school to earn a post graduate degree in physics. His faculty advisor earlier won a Noble in physics -- he figured it was a question of time before BJ did as well. After the Navy got involved I reckoned BJ was either living the good life with young babes on a tropical island or else sleeping in a refrigerator box under some Interstate overpass. And that is what I have to say about that.

oh come on, "there's an @#$#$% for every seat" no offense but
come on, i have a bridge......., snake oil,
those "claims" border on crazy. again no offense but believe
none of what you hear and 1/2 of what you see.

I know nothing about spirlmax and am not an engineer, but what I stated you can take to the bank, though I understand and can appreicate why some may say BS. No problem. Whatever.

The way I met BJ was via my brother-in-law. The dean of a BIG business school department in SoCal introduced my bro-in-law to BJ because at the time he worked for a multi-national industrial pump manufacturer. Nothing made up or exaggerated.

I try to avoid sharp 90 degree elbows on my exhaust, especially at the exit point! Also, what works with constant flow won't necessarily work at constantly varying flow (noticed the variable intake manifolds on new high end performance cars?).
On the other hand, I think spiraling the exhaust out one of those street rod type flame shooter exhausts would make for an interesting show to tailgaters.