I ordered today and NEED your HELP!

Guys,

I flew from Atlanta to Phoenix today to look at a speedster and ended up ordering an '05 VS Widebody.

This is from the AZ guys and I found them to be very nice guys and wanted to help....and moved a car around in their production to get mine done in 4 weeks.

It is:
2005 VS Wide-Body
Fuch 17" wheels with low profile tires
Leather Interior
A/C
3:88 Tranny
Kenwood Stereo
Conv and Toneau covers (with curtains)
1915cc VS motor dual carbs
Gold Carrera badges
Cocoa matts

sorry...I hit enter and it posted and I don't know how to edit.

Here are my big questions:

1. Is this motor a time-bomb or are the VS motors solid. I am DRIVING this car from AZ to GA and DON'T need problems. What options can I do? Size, HP, and $$$ from CB? Or can VS upgrade components on the front side to I never have issues?

2. How much is a Type 4 21xx cc motor, hp,$$$$, and fit?

3. I have asked for the car to be blocked and have 2 additional coats of clear and polished ( are they going to do it? ).

4. A/C options - how is VS doing them now and do I have engine access problems?

5. How are VS boats serviced so far from the harbor (I live in ATL).

6. How to break in motor? Is there an issue driving it that far on a fresh motor?

If you can..........just steer me please! I need these issues answered so I feel a little better about NOT needing service.

Looks like I am talking to myself but I want to add this.

I mean NO DISRESPECT to anyone. I am very impressed with the quality of the car and the dealer but honed in on two issues that seem to have a lot of press around here (engine reliability and paint quality).

Please give feedback....

Thanks.

Jim, you can edit by putting your cursor over the little pad and pencil in the upper left corner of each post and double clicking. I had planned on driving mine across the states to Seattle before putting it on the boat. Was advised against it, running the motor at a constant rpm isn't good for the break in. If you take back roads where rpms ar varied it's possible. You'll get lots of advice here shortly. I didn't want you to think you were alone, I'm fairly new to the site too (Jan). A friend up here Tony Gatts has mentioned the paint job problem with his new VS, he has the 1915cc and hasn't mentioned any problems to speak of with it yet. I rode in it after he got it up here, and man it gets up and goes pretty good. Hope this helps.

Pat

Jim, I bought, in March, a VS/1915 from Cliff. I would not reccomend the drive home. As mentioned RPM must be varied, but the problems getting the engine serviced in strange cities-I changed the oil and set valves at 300 miles 600 miles and 1000. I have no qualms with the paint on my car-silver metallic. Though I may sell soon will prob build the VS/1915 combination again. Just change a few dozen things!! jkl

1. Is this motor a time-bomb or are the VS motors solid. I am DRIVING this car from AZ to GA and DON'T need problems. What options can I do? Size, HP, and $$$ from CB? Or can VS upgrade components on the front side to I never have issues?
....I owned a 2000 VS and had good results with the 1776cc engine. It took me a while to get it running right, but I think that was due to the previous owners neglect/ignorance and my own learning curve. Others have had less success. The better the engine build (CB or ?) the better your chances. Recent posts have indicated that some feel the smaller engines are more reliable.

2. How much is a Type 4 21xx cc motor, hp,$$$$, and fit?
.....Contact the builders to get their prices.

3. I have asked for the car to be blocked and have 2 additional coats of clear and polished ( are they going to do it? ).
.....Ask your builder directly if possible.

4. A/C options - how is VS doing them now and do I have engine access problems?
.....My VS had air that I finally took out. I didn't use it and it made access hard for the plugs on the left bank. I don't know if the mounting has been changed to improve this.

5. How are VS boats serviced so far from the harbor (I live in ATL).
.....No knowledge of this

6. How to break in motor? Is there an issue driving it that far on a fresh motor?
.....I would advise you to drive around the area for a few days first and then have it serviced. Taking two lane highways which allow you to vary the speed is a good idea.

I mean NO DISRESPECT to anyone. I am very impressed with the quality of the car and the dealer but honed in on two issues that seem to have a lot of press around here (engine reliability and paint quality).

.....As far as paint quality goes, my VS was pretty good.

Is there a reason you chose to buy from a reseller instead of going directly to the builder? We occasionally get bad reports of people who have dealt with dealers, especially related to warranty issues.

John

How are VS boats serviced so far from the harbor (I live in ATL).


I don't even understand the question?

"How are VS boats serviced so far from the harbor"

It's an expression . . . He's just wondering how the car can be serviced so far from the point of sale/manufacture.

Steven...a metaphor meaning that I wonder how my car will be serviced so far from the Mfr,.....that's all.

Reason for buying from Cliff is that he had two on the floor and went out of his way to let me drive them. Hey, the guy runs a business and has a very nice operation...VERY NICE. I have no issue buying from a dealer if the structure is right. In the 'right' structure, a manufacturer should support his dealer network by not undercutting them - and also service the machines he built even if they were sold through a dealer (do you buy a car from Ford or a dealer?). In theory I should get the same car at a better price - and be serviced at a very high level because that's what Cliff offers in the end. I trust that Cliff knows the ins and outs of building the car with VS, he will be my ambassador, take my calls, and make DAMN SURE my concerns are considered and the car is as delivered as promised. At least that's the way it SHOULD work. Want to guess what the car cost?

I am not giving a lesson here...I am clearly the student, but I may call Cliff today and express what I have read here. Overall the VS seems like a good ride...but this paint issue and more importantly the engine making a unscheduled disassembly is a BIG concern. That and I always to defer to more HP....

How much is a solid CB 1915cc or the 2.0L motor? And are they in stock so I can have one delivered this week for the swap?

I still feel good about this decision and plan on going to VS next week on a business trip to Socal to see my car and let John know how concerned I am about getting better paint - as I will not accept the car if it has not been blocked prior to paint, wet-sanded between coats, and has two additional layers of clear on it and polished out slick. I will also finalize the 1915cc issue and try to get some assurances. The car I saw had very few issues accept the aforementioned and the louvers needing to be cleaned up (they were open but not cut smothly on the engine deck). I also drove a 550 mile VS with a 1915 and aside from the car not shifting quite crisp....it ran well in traffic at 107 degrees in phoenix yesterday.

I ordered the A/C and plan to call VS today and ask about the compressor location so I can swap out the plugs. Seems like just a bracket issue to me...but I may be over-simplifying things too.

As for the ride back....I am pretty committed to driving it back and will take a day and run it round town so that we can change the oil and service the motor, and then plan on hitting a major city the next day with a scheduled appointment so that I can do the same. It will likely be a 4 or 5 day trip instead of a 3-day to accomplish this. I am also going to inquire about a bigger sump....more oil mean better cooling and longer life....you have any experiences with this?

Honestly though , the motor seems like the hair-pin in this car......which is a total pain in the ass. I work a lot and the last thing I need is for the engine to make a series of expensive noises so far from VS (boat far from harbor is appropriate because I'll feel a little adrift if I don't get some commitment from VS that they will rescue me). Also, my wife will drive it while I am out of town and I don't need that call while I am 2000 miles away!

Please comment........I'm a sponge for knowledge right now.

You seem to have very high expectations for paint finish. Note that finish on a recently moulded fiberglass vehicle is NOT like on a steel body. The fiberglass cures and shrinks/contracts for years after its made - steel doesn't do that. Doors may appear perfectly smooth when you pick it up only to become wavy after weeks in the sun (same with hood). Also new paint is very soft when first applied - and its kind of hard to bake a fiberglass body to really harden it. Hopefully your paint will have time to cure (at least a couple of weeks) before you take to the roads for a 4 day trip.

Type 4 engine - you're in luck since Jake Raby is right near by in Cleaveland GA --- he has link from this site and is a supporting sponsor.

Jim, a couple of things about your build. Have you made your expectations known in the sales contract? Also, there is very good information on engine cooling which you can get to using the KNOWLEDGE tab on this website. I suggest that you take a look; this is good stuff. It is an invaluable resource put together by members of this forum.

Since you are in GA. perhaps at some point you might like to get together for a drive. When you enter your car in the REGISTRY, you will be able to find out who lives close to you. Greg Teeple (Nashville) and I have put together a day trip for this Saturday. I hope you can join us and others in the future.

Also, by all means, try to put the Carlisle PA gathering on your calendar for next May. It would be great to put together a Southeast caravan for next year's event.
John

I would say cancel your order. You're not buying a "new" car. Everything about these cars is old and used. Buy a new convertible and a model of a Speedster.

Whew! Luke, where's that coming from???

I tend to feel the same as Luke after reading the thread- seems an awful lot of "demands that need to be met" - after he signed the contract to buy (tad late - but suspect touch of buyer remorse). Even when you build your own, these cars are not perfect - always a litte blemish in the paint or rattle here and there. Not something I'd want my wife to drive while I'm on travel for sure --- if that was even remotely a consideration I'd go BMW Z4, Nissan 350ZX convertible, or Mustang convertible.

OK, here goes nothing, I personally wouldn't own a built up VW engine without a 356 pulley installed. Heck I would put it on anything including a 1776. It really does help make up for the speedster not cooling as well as the bug. Make sure the exhaust if a good flowing open exhaust. What should you do for more horsepower, have a CB 2110 or a 1915 built with a good port and polish job. These are fairly good motors, if you understand that they are only as good as the technology they are using. You can't expect them to drive for any length of time without tweeking and regular maintenance.

Think you want a bigger engine then that, my opinion is forget it, unless you go to something like a 911 and that just doesn't work in a standard Vintage car.

Hey,
Try out Specialty Autoworks (SAW) in Tennessee, their cars are affectionately called SubyTubs on this site. I talked to Steve today, and he was very knowledgable about his product. It has a Subaru water-cooled engine. May want to call him. It sounds like SAW has a great Speedster!!!
David

??????? I think he ordered a Vintage already? I'm sure he Steve has no interest in putting a liquid cooled engine in a Vintage Pan based car? Even if it could be done, you would be better off not buying the vintage and ordering a car from SAW. Thats why I didn't convert my IM, it was too much money and too much work.

Jim; if I were doing it over again I would've gone with an independently built engine and transaxle. I know for a fact that VS gives you a 2K credit when ordering without the engine; they might do a similar thing with the transaxle. I would've bought my transaxle from Rancho Performance and would've gotten the engine from someone like CB Performance or Gene Berg Enterprises. You could get those done independently for you and deliver them to VS for installation in your car.

As someone else here said, if you'd like a Type IV engine and tranny combo, Jake Raby is your man with the added plus of being close to your location.

Called CB.....they will NOT build a motor for a VS car as there is a lawsuit over the Webber carbs catching fire in 2 cars.

So.....it's off to another builder.....or stay with the VS. I talked to Kirk and he was emphatic about his motors being the right fit for the car....

He also said to run the car 100 miles and adjust the valves and change the oil and run it to Atlanta ( 1900 miles )...

I ordered a bigger sump though......

Jim, I can't empasize this enough 356 fan pulley is going to be important for you in Atlanta. It keeps the heads cooler.

Don't forget the welded balanced fan if you go with the 356 pulley.
Troy

Break in is so important on the type 1 motor.
While there are a few different methods to this madness, this is what I have learned from the "Old German School"

Initial start up: Setting number one cylinder at top dead cenmter (TDC) and the distributor rotor pointing to the notch on the distributor (this position will fire the motor)
Start and run the motor at 2200-2400 rpm range for a few minutes, stop the motor and set the timing at 28-30 dgrees maximum advance at 2800 rpm's.
Then restart and allow it to run for twenty minutes at 2500 rpm's . Stop the motor and allow it cool until stone cold.
Drain and replace the oil, run it again for another 30 minutes once again, at the same rpm range.
Allow for cooling to ambient air temp then adjust the valves, yes drain and refill the oil again and your good to go.

Jim - this whole thread makes it seem like you went straight to graduation (ordered a car) but skipped college (learning what to order).

Maybe not as good as the nautical metaphor, but a metaphor nonetheless.

I agree with my friend, JL. But, at least he didn't order a new SAW based on five e-mails in 8 hours (newbies). George Brown is laughing his ass off today.

RIP
GB

I see the Boyd speedster on Ebay again, so that means Jim won the bidding, went to Arizona, and renigged (sp) on the Boyd car.
But felt bad and ordered another car....
Is this about what happened.....Not that I care, just trying to understand why Jim isn't driving the hot rod he bid on.....

OK, here's my take, for what's worth, from another guy (beside Alan M.) who has actually built a few Aircooled Type 1 VW engine's;

You're rushing into this thing and buying a car from a manufacturer's rep when you could be going direct to the manufacturer, and BOTH the rep AND the manufacturer are over 2000 miles away from where you live.

You're buying an engine (the VS 1915) that most, if not all of those of us who build our own engines, would feel a little squeamish about, ESPECIALLY if the final user (you and your wife) don't know diddly about aircooled VW engines and what they require for "normal" maintanence. You don't just get in and drive for 50,000 miles without looking under the hood with these engines - they need more attention than that.

A 1915cc is absolutely borderline HP for running both the car and add-on air-conditioning, and I don't care what you've heard elsewhere. The engine will run a bit hotter all by itself, ESPECIALLY in Atlanta in the Summer. Now turn on that A/C and it's gonna run REALLY hot. Without at least a 16-pass, FULL FLOW EXTERNAL COOLER with an integral electric fan and mounted where it'll get lots of airflow, you will cook that engine in the first Summer (sounds like this one). A smaller, 356 fan pulley will certainly help, but not enough to save your engine this Summer in Atlanta.

A new air cooled engine requires the initial break-in outlined above by Alan M, then 300 miles bopping around town varying the speed from 2,500 rpm to 3,500 rpm, then an oil change and valve check. Then, for the next 700 miles, you need to vary the speed from 2,500 rpm to 4,000 rpm (no higher), then oil change and valve check. Then I would feel comfortable running at turnpike speeds, as long as it was varied between 50 mph and 70 mph, up and down a lot and hardly ever steady, for the next 1,500 - 2000 miles. After that, you can pretty much run it as you please, within reason.

IMHO, you'll get the VS 1915, run it around for a day and then head East with it, stopping along the way as you see fit, rather than getting it shipped via carrier back to Atlanta where you can break it in properly. Somewhere toward the end of a hot Summer with lots of A/C time, your engine will be toast, but don't blame us - we've tried to tell you that you're jumping into this too soon and the wrong way.

I'm with Luke on this one......

The Crusty Old Coot from Rhode Island

Even before your "predicition" I've talked to Kirk twice, CB twice, and have JCS and Scat on my list for tomorrow.

I'm a motor head guys.....I get it.

Take it easy...really!

BTW....seller on the new car offered "money back" if the black car didn't meet expectations. It DIDN'T...trust me. The car was really tired but I like the VS's in his shop so put together a deal because he treated me right....and I wanted to work with him.

Hey, lastly....chime in and tell me who to call and how much the engine set-up will run.....I need help here....and it might be more productive than just jumping me, huh?

Dan,
I couldn't have said it better....
Tired of those WWW's yet?????

Jim; Scat builds a good product. With respect to CB Performance and the Weber carbs; why not try Solex/Kadrons on one of their builds? AJ Sims over at the lowbugget.com website tweaks them into monsters if you want to and he's getting a lot of HP's out of them in his drag racer. Also talk to the guys at Gene Berg Enterprises and pick their brains and see what they can offer. If planning to put a sump on the engine, get theirs; I did and it's incredible. They are a little bit more expensive but you'll only buy it once. As they say, you get what you pay for. Also check this link; it looks very nice:

www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=178042

Vince,

Naw, but I'm lookin for sum lacky(sp?) to keep'm clean!

Don't commit to a new one. Unless money is no object, you are much better off buying a used car (that is broken in properly) and experience the car. As most on this site will tell you, you will not know what you really want until you have already had one. Listen to those that have had the experience to know better. When I say used, it truly is a relative term. Most of these cars get very little use and so therefore you can buy a previously owned speedster at a pretty substantial savings over new you and will profit off of someone elses buyer remorse, boredom or misadventure. Don't be the guy that someone else profits off of. Good Luck.

This whole thread makes me think of being a teenager with his girlfriend in the back seat of a Dodge with no condom.
ed

Why would a Dodge need a condom?

ed,

so you were the guy that used to spy on me in my ramcharger!!

george

Look.......I've been to the rodeo before........just not this one.

As usual the message board brings out all types. Those who want to help and those who come to take shots for sport. For those who are tying to help...can't thank you enough....I'm reading everything I can.

For those who want to take shots......please take off. I am a motor head who is quickly coming up to speed with the vw engine thing after 25 years (I used to bounce motors out of my baja in highschool on a pretty regular basis).

Will be calling the guys in AZ to get the engine credit I think....and any help on motors is greatly appreicated.

Hey, what about tranny's? Can you give advice there too?

Hey Jim, I know it can get rather long in the tooth sometimes. I am happy that you are able to make the switch from the first one to a VS. It is a better choice. Just to let you know that you are probably going to need something that will insure proper cooling in those sweltering and humid Georgia summers. You can get a 5 speed tranny, but remember RPM and OIL are all that cools the motors. Especially with aircon, you want to make sure you are running higher revs. These cars can take 4000-4500 easily with a cruise at 3000 rpm at 60mph.

A large sump (mine is 7 quarts) and maybe stick to a 4 speed transmission and make sure all engine tin is there and you should be OK. Heck my motor (1641cc, dual Solex) is 40 years old and screams like a champ (so far) everytime. Sure you need to poke your nose in there every once in awhile, but that's the fun. Proper non-restrictive exhaust is important as well. I have 4 straights with no muffler. You can certainly hear when I but the foot down.

As for what kind of motor. Sure you need a reliable BLOCK and stuff, but everything else can be fixed and will probably need tweaking as well. CB's are excellent, RABY's are excellent but so are normal VW motors. I feel people put way too much emphasis on trying to get MORE when they should be spending more attention to suspension, brakes, interiors etc... these cars weigh in at about 1600lbs so 140HP in a glass car is like (military intelligence) an oxymoron.

Look for a reliable motor, good exhaust package, dual carbs (sounds better), 4 wheel discs or at least discs in the front, new suspension, front sway bar (some people don't like this), rear torsion bars, kick ass stereo, and last but not least lots of sunscreen and tic tacs, because people want to talk to you.

Talk with the guys at Rancho Performance Transmissions (somewhere in LA near Anaheim. Been there - great shop).

Get a super-diff, welded 2nd, 3rd and 4'th gears, stock VW sedan gear ratios.

DON'T get a "Free-Way Flyer", as the final diff ratio (3:44) won't allow the engine to spin fast enough on Freeways to properly cool it in the Summer time (especially in Atlanta!). Go for the 3:88 (stock) rear, which should have you spinning about 3250-ish rpm at 72 mph and, with a 356 fan pulley you'll have plenty of air across the heads. Unlike American V-8's, these engines want to spin in the 3,000 - 4,000 range on highways (Mine's running about 65 mph at 3,000 rpm).

Also, DON'T get a so-called, "Power Pulley" for the crank - just stay with a stock sized crank pulley, degree-wheel if you wish.

If you're getting an engine from someone else, make sure it has been drilled and tapped for a full flow oiling system, with a full-flow oil pump with a plugged outlet, then have the car builder add a 16-pass external Oil Cooler AND external spin-on filter. While they're at it, have them install a re-direct thermostat for the oil lines (By-passes the cooler when cold, runs through the cooler when hot, but this is optional - you can just as well run through the cooler all the time in Georgia) and a thermostatic switch for the cooler fan (comes on at 180 or so). All THAT should keep your 1915 running cool, even with the A/C cranked.

BTW: That suggestion of a pair of properly set-up A.J. Simms Kadrons sounds pretty good. Make sure you tell him where you live, as then A.J. will set them up a tad rich on the main jets to help cool the engine a bit more (rich = cool running, lean = toast).

Sorry if I came on kinda strong - gotta keep up the image of the;

"Crusty old Coot from Rhode Island"

Jim, this is probably one of the friendliest auto SIG's in existance. If you are looking for help here, you will find it. Your first post belied your "motorhead" status and I think that's what some of us picked up on. Give us a sporting chance.

BTW, I was serious about getting together for a drive sometime, if you are interested. We seem to have a growing number of Speedster owners in the Southeast and I'm hoping you want to be part of it.
John as in Hoss

Jim, as I said in one of my earlier posts on another topic discussion on engines, make sure you get high quality internals such as a good forged counterweight crank (Gene Berg, Scat, Bugpack) and make sure you get all internals balanced; that means pistons & cylinders, crank, rods, flywheel, pulley and clutch. You don't need any super or reinforced cases or anything like that. A good dual relief OEM VW case (no line bored cases) is all you need; could be a new one (mostly Brazilian) or a good German one. As Gord said, get the case machined for the full flow system (about $15 extra). For cylinders go with the 90.5's (preferably) or the 94's. Forget the 92's (thin cylinder walls that don't dissipate the heat as good). Also as others have said go for the 356 pulley and welded fan; and of course go with the '71 and later larger oil cooler with appropriate dog house (as it's called) fan shroud to accomodate it.